2024-25 NBA Season Discussion

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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#881 » by IlikeSHAIguys » Fri Jan 17, 2025 2:41 am

AEnigma wrote:
itsxtray wrote:
IlikeSHAIguys wrote:I feel like Shai winning MVP is on the line next game.

It's not close enough to the end of the season for that.

Yep, Jokic and Shai play a back-to-back in Oklahoma City in March, and then Shai immediately heads to Boston after that. Those are the games which will be at the front of voters’ minds.

Now, does it help Shai to be able to say he split with the Cavaliers despite not having Chet? Sure. But it is not completely essential.

I think this helped him haha
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#882 » by OldSchoolNoBull » Sat Jan 18, 2025 3:42 am

Since we're about halfway through, I was thinking about the most surprising teams - in both a good way and a bad way - of the season so far.

Most Surprising(In A Good Way)

1. Cleveland

Cleveland has been a good team the last couple of years since Mitchell was acquired, but if anyone says they thought they'd be THIS good this season, I don't believe them.

2. Houston

Two years ago, they were bad. Last year, they made the jump from bad to mediocre. But now they're the #2 seed in the West with the fourth best record in the NBA despite not really having any elite players.

3. Los Angeles Clippers

They lost PG and Westbrook over the summer and were starting the season with Kawhi listed as "out indefinitely", so I started the season thinking that I wouldn't be surprised at all if they missed the playoffs entirely if Kawhi missed significant time. Kawhi has played just four games so far(and hasn't exactly set on the world on fire in those four games - only in the most recent one did he look like Kawhi), yet the Clippers are are the #5 seed with the eighth best record in the NBA, with Harden(who many thought was washed not so long ago), Powell, and Zubac leading the way. Their SRS right now is actually a hair better than last season. Like, really? Maybe Lue's most impressive coaching performance.

4. Detroit

The Pistons, by most metrics, were legitimately one of the worst teams of all time last season, and they didn't even get a top three pick for their troubles. Now, they are in play-in territory, one game over .500. Their SRS is still -1.64, but it was -9.06 last season. That is a big improvement. I didn't really expect the vet additions of Harris, Hardaway, and Beasley to have much impact, but I guess they have

5. OKC

You probably expected them to be higher, but honestly, they were one of the best teams in the NBA led by one of the best players in the NBA last season, and they are again this season, but with a better bench. It's not really that surprising. They're here mainly for the "without Chet" factor.

HM: Memphis

It's not surprising to me that Memphis is good again - given how good they were before, you didn't have to be nostrodamus to think that getting Morant back and adding a top 10 pick to the mix would put them in the thick of things again. What is somewhat surprising is the way they're doing it. It's a very depth-based approach, where the starters are playing 25-29mpg and that's it. It's like the opposite of the Knicks this season. It's also a bit surprising that their record is as good as it is with Morant only having played just over half the games.

Most Surprising(In A Bad Way)

1. Philly

What a disaster of a season so far. It's mainly health, and mainly Embiid's health at that, but still. You pay Paul George all that money, you expect him to be able to keep the team treading water at least in Embiid's absence, and that hasn't happened.

2. Minnesota

They were one of the best teams in the league last season, defeating the champs and going to the WCF. This season, they're struggling to stay in play-in territory. They're the 8th seed, and the seeds down there are so close that they're only one game out of the 11th seed and one and a half games out of the 12th seed.

In those playoffs last year, the ANT hype was off the charts, and nobody wanted to give KAT any credit. Is it time to give him some credit? The Wolves' roster is much the same as last season except with Randle and Donte instead of KAT, yet their SRS has dropped over 4 points and their Net Rtg has dropped almost 5 points.

3. New Orleans

I know Zion's been hurt a lot. But with Ingram, Dejounte Murray, McCollum, Trey Murphy, Herb Williams, etc...I just didn't expect them to be this bad even without Zion. There are teams with similarly terrible records but with way less talent.

4. Milwaukee

They had a REAL bad start to the season. They've been better recently, I guess, having won the in-season tournament and all, but they've been pretty uninspiring on the whole, and that's with Giannis and Dame missing only a handful of games. Right now, I don't know that anyone would pick the Bucks to beat any of the top three seeds in a playoff series.

5. Dallas

I guess Luka has missed some time, but after the experience of last season's Finals run and the addition of Klay Thompson, Spencer Dinwiddie, and Quentin Grimes, it seemed like they should improve. But so far, they haven't been particularly impressive.

--
HM: Sacramento

If I was writing this three weeks ago, the Kings would've been on the list, but they seem to have righted the ship after the coaching change.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#883 » by falcolombardi » Mon Jan 20, 2025 3:32 am

Shai has a +18 on court net rating, what the actual ****

That is absurd lol

I think that is what curry/green had in the 2017 warriors, but on a uncomplete team and without anyone having as good on/off as him in the team
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#884 » by Texas Chuck » Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:28 pm

falcolombardi wrote:Shai has a +18 on court net rating, what the actual ****

That is absurd lol

I think that is what curry/green had in the 2017 warriors, but on a uncomplete team and without anyone having as good on/off as him in the team


I mean SGA is the only offensive anchor they have. Williams is a good player, but he's not a guy to carry an offensive load (yet?). They have tons of defensive wings to flip in and out and lots of shooters, but they don't have another guy who drives offense.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#885 » by Doctor MJ » Mon Jan 20, 2025 6:39 pm

Texas Chuck wrote:
falcolombardi wrote:Shai has a +18 on court net rating, what the actual ****

That is absurd lol

I think that is what curry/green had in the 2017 warriors, but on a uncomplete team and without anyone having as good on/off as him in the team


I mean SGA is the only offensive anchor they have. Williams is a good player, but he's not a guy to carry an offensive load (yet?). They have tons of defensive wings to flip in and out and lots of shooters, but they don't have another guy who drives offense.


I think the crazy things are the On numbers for Shai combined with his separation from teammates.

By raw +/- (not the rate stat falco mentioned), he put up totals for the first half of the season only eclipsed by Curry & Green, and the gap between him and his top teammate (Lu Dort) by the stat isn't just bigger than Steph relative to Dray/Klay, but considerably bigger than '08-09 LeBron to his teammate (Delonte West).

It's really, really crazy stuff. Were Shai to keep this up all year, it would put him in the ranks of the most impactful regular seasons we've ever been able to see +/- stats on.

And of course crazy that we also have Jokic who is perpetually announcing himself in that conversation, but I find myself wanting to really emphasize that what we're seeing with Shai's data isn't just another alternative-to-Jokic. It's something possibly unique.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#886 » by lessthanjake » Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:42 pm

Yeah, I think Jokic is a better player than SGA, but a +18.8 on-off with a +18.9 ON is actually probably more impressive IMO than a +22.9 on-off with a +12.7 ON. Of course, both of those sets of numbers are nuts though.
OhayoKD wrote:Lebron contributes more to all the phases of play than Messi does. And he is of course a defensive anchor unlike messi.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#887 » by MartinToVaught » Mon Jan 20, 2025 8:55 pm

OldSchoolNoBull wrote:Their SRS right now is actually a hair better than last season. Like, really?

This isn't as surprising as it looks for anyone who was paying attention. This year's Clippers play hard consistently and have a coherent roster. Last year's team was a bunch of redundant 35-year-olds thrown together who were too old and slow to compete.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#888 » by Top10alltime » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:36 am

Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#889 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:13 am

Top10alltime wrote:Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt


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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#890 » by Top10alltime » Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:34 pm

Doctor MJ wrote:
Top10alltime wrote:Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt


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Doctor MJ, wemby Has defensive weaknesses, don't forget that. Wilt is closer playstyle than russell, but obviously he is far worse.
I think the next bill russell will be someone like gobert. They both are obviously far worse than wilt and russell don't get me wrong.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#891 » by 70sFan » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:35 pm

Can anybody explain me how Zubac isn't an all-star this season?
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#892 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:43 pm

Top10alltime wrote:Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt


Not unless he packs on some serious muscle. Right now he's still very slender; Wilt was one of the 3 guys people talk about as the strongest of all time (Wilt, Artis, Shaq).

Second coming of Shawn Bradley (an excellent defender) but with tremendous offense seems more in line as a projection.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#893 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:46 pm

Top10alltime wrote:Doctor MJ, wemby Has defensive weaknesses, don't forget that. Wilt is closer playstyle than russell, but obviously he is far worse.
I think the next bill russell will be someone like gobert. They both are obviously far worse than wilt and russell don't get me wrong.


Gobert is more Wilt (especially late career Wilt) than Russell. Russell had the ability to guard out on the floor like Kevin Garnett to the point where they used him in one game to try to shut down quick SF Chet Walker who was scoring at will on John Havlicek. Wilt was more the stay at home physical post defender and shot blocker who didn't like defending in space.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#894 » by 70sFan » Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:54 pm

penbeast0 wrote:
Top10alltime wrote:Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt


Not unless he packs on some serious muscle. Right now he's still very slender; Wilt was one of the 3 guys people talk about as the strongest of all time (Wilt, Artis, Shaq).

Second coming of Shawn Bradley (an excellent defender) but with tremendous offense seems more in line as a projection.

What about Manute Bol who can play on the other end of the floor?
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#895 » by penbeast0 » Tue Jan 21, 2025 7:51 pm

That's not fair in two ways. Manute was so much better a shot blocker than anyone in the history of the NBA including Hakeem, Mutombo, Eaton, etc. that comparing a player to him is like comparing a 3 point shooter to Curry. And, he was such a weak individual post defender that Chet Holmgren could bully him and push him around, which is not true of Wemby. Manute was truly unique.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#896 » by Doctor MJ » Tue Jan 21, 2025 8:52 pm

70sFan wrote:Can anybody explain me how Zubac isn't an all-star this season?


I've been thinking about this too.

I don't think it's crazy for the Clippers to have zero all-stars this year, but I think Zubac has been the team's MVP, and so I'd think that he'd be the one people are talking about as the Clipper candidate...but they aren't, and it seems to be justified by other guys being more aesthetic.

I really don't like that. I don't mind at all LaMelo being an all-star if the fans vote for him, but to me if you're not popular enough to get in specifically based on popularity, then you're not popular enough for popularity to matter.

Now as I say this, I do tend to think that the franchises themselves do have an unofficial say in who they push forward for fringe spots. And so on a team with Kawhi & Harden as the established stars, maybe the expectation is that since Harden's been playing, he shouldn't lose a spot to anyone other than Kawhi.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#897 » by Cavsfansince84 » Wed Jan 22, 2025 12:00 am

penbeast0 wrote:
Top10alltime wrote:Wemby will be second coming of defence on Wilt


Not unless he packs on some serious muscle. Right now he's still very slender; Wilt was one of the 3 guys people talk about as the strongest of all time (Wilt, Artis, Shaq).

Second coming of Shawn Bradley (an excellent defender) but with tremendous offense seems more in line as a projection.


Overall I agree except that I think Victor's body type is closer to KG than to Bradley who just always looked awkwardly near anorexic. I think Victor will actually be able to put on some muscle and weight as he ages much like KG did. I'd guess he weighs close to 250 within a 2-3 years and might top out at around 260-265.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#898 » by GSP » Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:51 am

Wtf is up w/ Denvers shooting the past month?

Theyre shooting like the 17 Warriors **** is obscene.......

Peyton Watson career 65% Ft shooter shooting 77% this season. 34% 3pt shooting a 5% jump.

Aaron Gordon career 32% 3pt shooter shooting over 40%

Strawther??? Looking like light skin Buddy Hield.

Russ career 30% 3pt shooter shooting 34% and it must be higher as a starter

Jokic 47% from 3 :crazy: :crazy: ..... Wtf is going on?1
If this **** is real only Okc w/ Chet has a prayer in beating them

Anytime I check a Nuggets box score live theyre shooting 65/55/85 as a team or some **** most insane shooting stretch I've ever seen did they hire the Goat shooting coach or what?
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#899 » by Peregrine01 » Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:22 am

GSP wrote:Wtf is up w/ Denvers shooting the past month?

Theyre shooting like the 17 Warriors **** is obscene.......

Peyton Watson career 65% Ft shooter shooting 77% this season. 34% 3pt shooting a 5% jump.

Aaron Gordon career 32% 3pt shooter shooting over 40%

Strawther??? Looking like light skin Buddy Hield.

Russ career 30% 3pt shooter shooting 34% and it must be higher as a starter

Jokic 47% from 3 :crazy: :crazy: ..... Wtf is going on?1
If this **** is real only Okc w/ Chet has a prayer in beating them

Anytime I check a Nuggets box score live theyre shooting 65/55/85 as a team or some **** most insane shooting stretch I've ever seen did they hire the Goat shooting coach or what?


They don't take that many threes but the threes that they do take are very high quality. AG, Russ and Watson are all almost exclusively corner 3 pt shooters.
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Re: 2024-25 NBA Season Discussion 

Post#900 » by Special_Puppy » Wed Jan 22, 2025 4:22 pm

GSP wrote:Wtf is up w/ Denvers shooting the past month?

Theyre shooting like the 17 Warriors **** is obscene.......

Peyton Watson career 65% Ft shooter shooting 77% this season. 34% 3pt shooting a 5% jump.

Aaron Gordon career 32% 3pt shooter shooting over 40%

Strawther??? Looking like light skin Buddy Hield.

Russ career 30% 3pt shooter shooting 34% and it must be higher as a starter

Jokic 47% from 3 :crazy: :crazy: ..... Wtf is going on?1
If this **** is real only Okc w/ Chet has a prayer in beating them

Anytime I check a Nuggets box score live theyre shooting 65/55/85 as a team or some **** most insane shooting stretch I've ever seen did they hire the Goat shooting coach or what?


Bit outdated, yeah the Nuggets shooting is top 10 this season, but the Cavs are crazy shooting team this season
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