The Lebron Thread

[CJ_18]

Even though it's difficult to make predictions as to how he will eventually measure up to MJ, it appears that his 'claim to fame' will be his versatility on both ends.

You bring up a very interesting topic. 5 years ago when he was continuing to burst onto the scence, it would have been crazy to think that we would remember LeBron as anything other than an one of the most explosive, athletic scorers we've ever scene (similar to Jordan's style), who was also blessed with amazing playmaking ability. However, here we are in 2012 and we are thinking we are going to remember him for his versatility as you said, as we have seen him develop his all around game (willingness to be a force rebounding, on defense).

Its funny because this is also similar to Jordan because he came into the league averaging 30+ as a youngster, and while his scoring didn't fall off noticably, he eventually also became known as an all around player/leader. The first thing we remember about him is he was probably the greatest scorer to ever play, and then we usually throw in that he also did the other things very well too. Also, one thing we've kinda seen with LeBron that we didnt see with Jordan is almost a change in positions/player types, as Bron started out as a athletic, slashing swingman who is transforming into more of a forward as he continues to grow, play down low (on the defensive end especially) a little more and use his physicality.. So it'll be interesting to see how we end up remembering LeBron when his career is over.

[Greatness]

Why do you guys think his jumper was so much better in the 2010-2011 season than now? Did he change his mechanics or is it all mental?

[SideshowBob]

Just started watching. His activeness on defense looks even more aggressive than before, not to mention how quick he looks on that side of the floor. If this is the kind of performance we're seeing in the preseason, I look forward to watching how much chaos he can cause defensively over the course of the year.

[SideshowBob]

DVR'd the Heat-China game that was early this morning(7:30 AM ET). That's the best LeBron's ever looked in a Heat uniform. Sharp, explosive movements, good acceleration and great willingness to be a creator out there. It was pretty close to what he showed in the Olympics. Funny thing is, he still looks huge(10-11 level), but it doesn't seem to be hampering him like it did that season.

Only downer was the jumper. He made his first 2, but missed the rest pretty badly. Free Throws looked good though.

Haven't even finished the first quarter yet and I agree with you. He's only driven once, but just his movement on the floor looks so much better than it had been the last two seasons, he looks crisp and his lateral mobility looks very close to what it was in Cleveland.

And the big thing is that it doesn't look he's cut down any weight at all, so I'm a bit confused as to why he looked so hampered the last two seasons.

[rjchpd]

He's moving around well, appearing nimble on both ends. I'm particularly impressed with his defensive activity including close outs, rotations, etc and as sideshow mentioned this could be signs of good things to come once the season starts.
Free throw shooting was great and it appears he's working out some new kind of release on his jumper in general.
Let's see how that plays out as the season progresses.

[toodles23]

DVR'd the Heat-China game that was early this morning(7:30 AM ET). That's the best LeBron's ever looked in a Heat uniform. Sharp, explosive movements, good acceleration and great willingness to be a creator out there. It was pretty close to what he showed in the Olympics. Funny thing is, he still looks huge(10-11 level), but it doesn't seem to be hampering him like it did that season.

Only downer was the jumper. He made his first 2, but missed the rest pretty badly. Free Throws looked good though.

Yep, when he gets his release "right" it looks good and clean, but he's very inconsistent with it. FTs looked really good, even his miss was close and every make was clean, but we all know he goes through stretches like this every year.

He looks great athletically, that drive on Griffin at the beginning of the 2nd half where he drew the foul is a great indication of his improved mobility - it looked like Griffin had position and was going to cut him off (like has happened to Heat Lebron so many times), but Lebron just easily bulled through him and drew the foul. In comparison, it looks like '10-'11 Lebron is running in quicksand. I wonder what the hell changed, is it possible he's just in better shape this year? I think he'd benefit a lot from dropping 10 pounds too.

I think we're in for a special season from Lebron if this is how he looks early in the pre-season.

Haven't even finished the first quarter yet and I agree with you. He's only driven once, but just his movement on the floor looks so much better than it had been the last two seasons, he looks crisp and his lateral mobility looks very close to what it was in Cleveland.

And the big thing is that it doesn't look he's cut down any weight at all, so I'm a bit confused as to why he looked so hampered the last two seasons.

It's a mystery to me too, my initial thought was that he might be in better shape this year.

[IG2]

Yep, when he gets his release "right" it looks good and clean, but he's very inconsistent with it.

It seems like he's releasing the ball on the way down. In face-up situations, ideally you'd want players to release the ball at the top of their jump. LeBron's kinda struggling with the basics right now - things like release point, body balance, footwork to set-up the jumper. Stuff he had worked out after '08....

He looks great athletically, that drive on Griffin at the beginning of the 2nd half where he drew the foul is a great indication of his improved mobility

Great example. Griffin hand-checked hard and did indeed cut off LeBron's initial step(which looked impressive in itself), but he displayed acceleration after that he simply didn't possess before. No way he makes that drive in '11, and likely not last season either.

Another impressive drive was at the end of the 1st qtr, from about 30 feet out, where he left Grant Hill in the dust and displayed tremendous acceleration after that. He went up for the finish with explosiveness we haven't seen in the half-court in a long time. He missed bad, but that was due to some pretty good D by Clipper bigs.

I wonder what the hell changed, is it possible he's just in better shape this year? I think he'd benefit a lot from dropping 10 pounds too.

Just looking at him, this is the biggest I've ever seen him. He's massive, but moving better than he has since 09-10, so who knows WTF is going? . I just hope it continues.

[SideshowBob]

I've been watching the game on Youtube and the video has the first 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter cut out, so I can't see that particular play, but everything else looks promising so far.

Still have no idea what caused the change. I don't think conditioning was really ever the issue, he's looked like the most in shape player in the league even in his two down Miami years. Can mental pressure really hamper an athlete to the extent we saw in 11 and 12 (to a lesser degree)?

[starvinmarvin17]

I've been watching the game on Youtube and the video has the first 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter cut out, so I can't see that particular play, but everything else looks promising so far.

Still have no idea what caused the change. I don't think conditioning was really ever the issue, he's looked like the most in shape player in the league even in his two down Miami years. Can mental pressure really hamper an athlete to the extent we saw in 11 and 12 (to a lesser degree)?

Do u have a link to this man

[starvinmarvin17]

I've been watching the game on Youtube and the video has the first 2 minutes of the 3rd quarter cut out, so I can't see that particular play, but everything else looks promising so far.

Still have no idea what caused the change. I don't think conditioning was really ever the issue, he's looked like the most in shape player in the league even in his two down Miami years. Can mental pressure really hamper an athlete to the extent we saw in 11 and 12 (to a lesser degree)?

I honestly think its just him conserving energy at times . In the beginning of the season he was flying over people's heads.

[SideshowBob]

Finally caught the whole thing. That drive in the beginning of the 2nd half was definitely a great example, that's certainly something I've never seen Heat Lebron do (he needs an open lane to attack) nor is it something I've expected him to be able to do.

Also, again I just watched some stuff from his last year in Cleveland. Even the current improved Lebron doesn't look THIS good in the halfcourt. Should point out that the Lakers were the #4 defensive team in the league that year (-3.9 LA).

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pFwvRLLEx4c[/youtube]

The long jumper looked fantastic that year as well, and I think that was his peak as a 3PT shooter. He's posted higher %s in 06, 09, and 12, but that's misleading; his volume was never this high and his heat check frequency was the highest it had ever been. I think a large part of the reason I consider 2010 to be his offensive and scoring peak is because of that 3PT shot. He was able to space the floor really well for himself and that worked wonders to disrupt opposing defenses.

Do u have a link to this man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTn3NKt_t7c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UOtViJxAdQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSLP3gC0M0c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZwZsz_gkq0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDsPJ1cgFpQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViJqlyo6UXQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tdclNCLJlrQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL98a9KIeEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gf7X12TvLGM

I honestly think its just him conserving energy at times . In the beginning of the season he was flying over people's heads.

But that makes no sense. Conserving energy doesn't hamper your mobility or agility nor body control. Hesitation to attack the paint to conserve energy I can understand, but the issue here has always been completely different.

[starvinmarvin17]

No he obv lost some athleticism. I think it some games where he doesn't look that impressive athletically where he just conserving energy or simply doesn't have the gas in the tank the younger bron always seemed to have

[IG2]

Also, again I just watched some stuff from his last year in Cleveland. Even the current improved Lebron doesn't look THIS good in the halfcourt.

Oh yeah. Those days are gone. He'll be 28 in a couple of months and is in his 10th season. I don't think it would be realistic to expect him to be what he was in his mid-20's. What he should be though is close, which is why the last 2 seasons have been so frustrating. Yesterday's game gives me hope for the future though.

[MisterWestside]

No he obv lost some athleticism. I think it some games where he doesn't look that impressive athletically where he just conserving energy or simply doesn't have the gas in the tank the younger bron always seemed to have

Which is why I always laugh at people who say that he's not skilled. "Less athletic" LeBron is still by far the best player in the league, and while he's still athletic he's added to his repertoire to compensate.

[orangeparka]

Wish LeBron would develop a consistent midrange jumper. He's good but just too streaky from there.

His jumper was great his first year as a Heat, and had some tremendous shooting games in 12' playoffs, but I'd prefer consistency lol.

[SideshowBob]

Game on against Clippers again right now

[toodles23]

Lebron clearly took this game off (possibly due to the slippery floor?) but he still showed great mobility on the defensive end.

[starvinmarvin17]

Agreed he looked bored out there lol .

[Ursusamericanus]

Very interesting thread. Was hoping to see a topic like this. I've been following LeBron closely pretty much his entire career - I'm exclusively a Knicks fan but LBJ has always intrigued me because of his multidimensional style of play and his freakishly gifted physical traits. Probably my favorite non-Knick ever.

I have to echo the sentiments expressed by the OP. I'd agree that he has seen a slight loss in acceleration, explosiveness and flexibility since he was in Cleveland. More than "aging" I think it is strictly due to a general gain in mass.

Look at him here in 2006:



And now:



He was already burly and muscular at age 21 but now he's a straight up tank. Still one of the most athletic players in the NBA and probably the most physically gifted all-around though. And he's definitely even stronger now. Still very quick but not quite as blindingly fast as before.

I want to add that I think the slight loss in explosiveness has actually made him a more fundamentally sound and complete player at both ends of the court. He plays smarter and - like all great players - is adapting to whatever physical changes nature is throwing his way. I even remember thinking when he was a rookie that he'd end up playing closer and closer to the basket as his career went on, eventually becoming a power forward with unbelievable court vision and speed. It hasn't been a major drop off in speed (in my opinion) but definitely something I've noticed after watching a major portion of his career games since he was 18. One more thing though - he looked very quick in the Olympics and pre-season so far.

Personally I think he'd be at his best if he lost around 10 pounds, but I guess that's a moot point since he's already separated himself as the best player in the league. As they say, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But I can't help and imagine if he'd just be a smidge faster and more explosive as a leaper if he was just a little sleeker. If he's going to make a transition to play closer to the cup, though, then I guess weighing as much as a center might serve him well. I honestly think that as he enters the second half of his career, he'll start to see an increase in rebounding numbers - wouldn't be surprised to see some 8-10 RPG seasons from him in the upcoming years.

Should be a fun ride. I'm excited to watch LeBron continue to transcend the boundaries of stardom and end up as an all-time great.

[SideshowBob]

Lebron clearly took this game off (possibly due to the slippery floor?) but he still showed great mobility on the defensive end.

Despite the lack of aggressiveness, I thought he looked even better physically in this game than he did in the previous one. He looked much quicker on both ends, acceleration looked close to Cleveland level, and he looked faster on that breakaway layup than I've seen him ever be on a Miami break. He was also just all over the floor defensively and his recovery speed looked much better than it typically has.

If his training camp statements are to be believed, he may still not be in regular-season shape, which would explain the game-by-game improvements as he continues to work on conditioning.