2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[parsnips33]

Was really impressed with Jordan McLaughlin (backup PG for the Wolves) play on both ends. This guy would be getting Caruso type hype if he played in LA

[ShotCreator]

So I can’t believe I have to say this

Mike Conley is not the mvp lmfao

This is the problem when people look at plus minus data as an end all argument rather than a part of a puzzle lol

Or KCP is the real lakers superstar and I’m tripping lmfao

"The way I look at it within myself why not- why can't I be the Mvp of the league? Why can't I be the best player in the league? I don't see why- why? Why can't I do that? I think I lead in +/-. I own a +30 on/of rating at an old age. And I know if I continue to dominate +/- lineups and on/off what I can get out of it. If that's me going out on a +19 on court rating doing whatever Im willing to do it"

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

[MyUniBroDavis]

"The way I look at it within myself why not- why can't I be the Mvp of the league? Why can't I be the best player in the league? I don't see why- why? Why can't I do that? I think I lead in +/-. I own a +30 on/of rating at an old age. And I know if I continue to dominate +/- lineups and on/off what I can get out of it. If that's me going out on a +19 on court rating doing whatever Im willing to do it"

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

Watch on YouTube

[MyUniBroDavis]

I dont think anyone is offended by the fact that you wanted to go into 27 pages of detail on why Mike Conley had a more successful career than Tom Brady

I agree I dont have any takes as memorable as Mike Conley being the greatest golfer in PGA history

The random accusations are random, esp since i disagree with people 90% of the time here lol.

itd be kind of fun to go back and forth in this weird anime style texting with these well placed line breaks for dramatic effect, as if we are eternal rivals even though this is basically the second time ive ever interacted with you, but thats a suspension waiting to happen

[MyUniBroDavis]

Why is load management okay when AD does it but not when Kawhi does it? Where's the media outrage?

Read on Twitter

The games Davis missed this year are against bad or awful teams like Minnesota, Detroit and Chicago on a back to back ... The problem with Kawhi is the number of games he missed, like 22 games for load management in Toronto and he hadn't played a single back to back game before this year since the 2017 season .... Davis would never have missed a game against the Bucks(like Kawhi last year) if he was healthy

damnit you jinxed it

[GSP]

"The way I look at it within myself why not- why can't I be the Mvp of the league? Why can't I be the best player in the league? I don't see why- why? Why can't I do that? I think I lead in +/-. I own a +30 on/of rating at an old age. And I know if I continue to dominate +/- lineups and on/off what I can get out of it. If that's me going out on a +19 on court rating doing whatever Im willing to do it"

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

Dude do you actually think Mike Conley is the Mvp candidate on Utah and not Rudy Gobert?

[freethedevil]

Curry has a great argument to be the 2nd best player of the 2010s after LeBron (Durant and CP3 are in the conversation too, although I would take Curry), so most reasonable people know that he's great and can certainly explode the way he did against the Blazers, and he is good enough to take a bad team and make them somewhat respectable.

I think the next level doubts about Curry from people like myself is if he can play at an offensively elite level in the playoffs against focused and more talented defenses. Thus far, his career track record says "kinda, but not at GOAT-level". Maybe that's the disconnect? Because some people see him as offensive GOAT-level, and in relation to the PS, I don't see it. That doesn't mean he's not historically great in the RS though, and that doesn't mean he's still not one of the super elite players in the game. Of course he is.

I think there are two sides to the Curry "hate" btw. Of course, there are people with biases and prejudices that just hate. That's always going to happen.

But imo, I also think there is a push by quite a few people to crown Curry as this ideal offensive basketball player and elevate him to levels he hasn't exactly proven he deserves. A LOT of praise is given to his gravity and his shooting ability and the motion offense he's the engine of, as if this is the ideal way to play basketball, and yet, this ideal basketball has gotten stifled more often than not, and they didn't truly dominate until they brought in "ugly" ISO basketball. And any objective examination of the Warriors' offense during that 2015-2019 stretch gets called hating, or a lot of blame gets deflected to other people on his team, or it's swept under the rug of team success, without actually acknowledging that much of their team success was mainly because of outstanding defensive performance and a good enough but not dominant offensive run, which was frequently underwhelming in fact. Durant and Westbrook are two of the most criticized stars of the generation, and their ISO ball habits and ugly offensive system in OKC gets constantly brought up as the wrong way to play basketball in contrast to the beautiful offensive system of Curry and GS...and yet, OKC's playoff offense in 12 and 16 with Westbrook and Durant outperformed the 15 and 16 Warriors playoff offense...by a lot.

So yeah, I think most objective people know that Curry is a dominant RS player and a very, very good playoff performer. And yeah, there are haters out there. But I think Curry homerism is just as big of an issue (on this board at least) as Curry hate is. Because LeBron, Kobe, Nash, Dirk, Garnett, Duncan, Shaq, etc have ALL had their team successes (and failures) micro-analyzed and broken down and the best efforts were made to objectively assign "credit" to the appropriate people in order to truly evaluate the player's performance...but there's resistance to this for Curry, idk why.

So AND1'ed and you had me until this last part.

Dude, Curry just got voted in way lower in the Top 100 here than over at ESPN. Think about what that says.

You're seeing resistance to nuance analysis, but from my perspective y'all got swept in a distinct direction that clearly not everyone is getting swept in.

For example, any other superstar would have been eviscerated for milking an injury to last an entire season so that their team could tank and he could avoid the negative attention of not being able to "carry" a team to the playoffs.

Okay, I really have to stop here.

What on earth are you doing alleging that a player milked an injury an entire season specifically to avoid looking bad?

And seriously, that's what you wanted to lead with to show how other people are afraid of rational critique? A conspiracy theory that doesn't make any sense when you actually break down what that would mean to the Golden State Warriors franchise in their first year in their ultra-expensive San Francisco arena? That's how you're thinking about this player?

Also, you do realize that what you're doing here is giving "negative attention"? If this was a scheme of Curry's, it wasn't just highly unethical and a betrayal of everyone around him, it was utterly foolish and he should have known better. Any time you miss a large amount of time and your team endures a lot of losing, those who lose sympathy will be prone to blame.

realbig, you've had many, many, many insightful posts and I appreciate your work. I respect you a good deal, but dude, I think you've lost the thread on this one.

I think if you're going to be so incredulous about the idea that Curry's injury wasn't bad enough to miss an entire season but he did anyway because it helped the team at the end of the day (they got James Wiseman out of a season in which they wouldn't have accomplished much if Curry had played anyway), then I don't think you're evaluating any of this objectively. His injury was projected to take 3 months to heal from. There were videos of him looking perfectly fine in drills and warmups and practice. If the Warriors were competing for a title, he would have been back, which kind of proves my point.

I'm pointing out a double-standard, not even saying that what Curry did was so wrong...honestly, it was in the best interest of the team, and I'm like 99.999% sure it was a mutual decision between him and the team to just sit out the year, "all things considered". But if this were LeBron or Kobe back in the day, nobody can tell me they wouldn't have gotten rocked for this. Heck, people bring up the Spurs tanking when Robinson got hurt in order to get Duncan, and you're saying that Curry possibly doing this is a crazy conspiracy theory? Especially with an injury that doesn't take an entire season to heal from?

And ESPN gets caught up in narrative and ring counting all the time. The fact that they ranked a 2 time MVP and a 3 time champion higher than a forum that is known to reject those things as actual analysis doesn't change the fact that Curry is relatively protected, not overly criticized, in relation to other superstars.

And what I will say is that his overall team success has been used as more of a defense for any sort of criticism of him than has ever been the case for anyone else, except maybe Jordan.

Why is helping to get your team james wiseman a bad thing? If anyone is lambasting curry for helping his team sustain their title prospects, I ahve to question what that person's priorities are.

If winning the goal, helping our team get a top lottery pick shoul dnot be seen as a bad thing. Denying your team a lottery pick while insiting on playing, despite oyour gm's protests, when your team has no hope of doing anything is probably the course of action that should be criticized. Getting really mad about it and helping to form a toxic relationship with your gm is probably harmful for your team in the long term.

Curry did what was right for his team, and older players complaining about it are just insecure about people not valuing their forced masculinty/toughness

[freethedevil]

"The way I look at it within myself why not- why can't I be the Mvp of the league? Why can't I be the best player in the league? I don't see why- why? Why can't I do that? I think I lead in +/-. I own a +30 on/of rating at an old age. And I know if I continue to dominate +/- lineups and on/off what I can get out of it. If that's me going out on a +19 on court rating doing whatever Im willing to do it"

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

The parimary issue here is that the evidence you cited +/-, strongly suggests Mike Conely isn't an mvp candidate once we adjust for lineups. Going on a tangent with unibrodavis when I've addressed your take in good faith, is a confusing choice.

[MyUniBroDavis]

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

Dude do you actually think Mike Conley is the Mvp candidate on Utah and not Rudy Gobert?

He has 27 pages of evidence bro chill

[bondom34]

Wait I was spamming?

If you just want to take wild stances and have nobody call it out, idk. But personal attacks (not at me, just in general), not cool.

It was a bad, indefensible take.

[bondom34]

Was really impressed with Jordan McLaughlin (backup PG for the Wolves) play on both ends. This guy would be getting Caruso type hype if he played in LA

On a real basketball note, I know some seemed really high on him but haven't seen him much. Pretty sure Leroux was surprised nobody tried to make an offer for him this summer.

[Clyde Frazier]

"The way I look at it within myself why not- why can't I be the Mvp of the league? Why can't I be the best player in the league? I don't see why- why? Why can't I do that? I think I lead in +/-. I own a +30 on/of rating at an old age. And I know if I continue to dominate +/- lineups and on/off what I can get out of it. If that's me going out on a +19 on court rating doing whatever Im willing to do it"

Literally just constant clowning of this mans statement for three pages we need 27 more

He said it so matter of a fact to, he didn’t say “this might be a hot take: Conley is an mvp”

Nah he was like

Gee willickers fellas gollie Conley is the mvp this year lmao

You think ideas based on luck and conjecture is clowning? You really wanted this big chance to disagree and make me look like an ass(which is fine) but you’re still too dumb to follow any of the previous pages or actually get involved, or even accurately represent a single thing I said.


Why would I say something so someone would agree with me? What would be the point of that? That’s something YOU would do.

You have not once ever posted anything I’ve remembered, which is it’s own talent. Your **** ‘woah! *finged snap* look at this take I made’ style of posting is the only distinguishing thing about you.

and it stinks.

woah lmao I’m gonna exaggerate a narrative everyone agrees with, reeeee

Yeah, shutup stupid.

I would’ve went further with my ideas but bondon34 got to spamming and I got bombarded with this weird level of emotion from multiple posters which is why I knew it was pointless.

I actually can go 27 more pages with ideas. In detail.

But again pointless. Unfortunately you don’t understand that concept or you wouldn’t post anything, ever.

You have the most to say but had the least to actually add, as usual.

The whole personal attack tirade thing isn't allowed here.

[Dutchball97]

Utah is now in possession of the sole best record in the entire league. Conley does have an argument for best player on the Jazz so far with him leading the team in +-, VORP and coming in a close second to Gobert in WS. So if you take best player on the best team very literally you could end up with Conley as your MVP but realistically Gobert is the one making this a top 3 defense, while the top 5 offense is more of a collaborative effort between Conley, Gobert, Clarkson and occasional strong Mitchell games.

Either way neither of them should be in the MVP convo. The Spurs were probably the best team in tbe league in 2014 but giving old Tim Duncan MVP for that makes little sense. Same with giving someone like Billups or Ben Wallace MVP for the mid 00s Pistons success.

I will say Gobert has been trending upwards rapidly. Early in the season I'd argue he was just as disappointing as Mitchell with Conley and Clarkson leading the way for the Jazz but the last few games really seems to signal Gobert being back to form.

[GSP]

Utah is now in possession of the sole best record in the entire league. Conley does have an argument for best player on the Jazz so far with him leading the team in +-, VORP and coming in a close second to Gobert in WS. So if you take best player on the best team very literally you could end up with Conley as your MVP but realistically Gobert is the one making this a top 3 defense, while the top 5 offense is more of a collaborative effort between Conley, Gobert, Clarkson and occasional strong Mitchell games.

Either way neither of them should be in the MVP convo. The Spurs were probably the best team in tbe league in 2014 but giving old Tim Duncan MVP for that makes little sense. Same with giving someone like Billups or Ben Wallace MVP for the mid 00s Pistons success.

I will say Gobert has been trending upwards rapidly. Early in the season I'd argue he was just as disappointing as Mitchell with Conley and Clarkson leading the way for the Jazz but the last few games really seems to signal Gobert being back to form.

2019-21 Rudy is prolly better than anyone on the 04 Pistons or 14 Spurs. He's a legit borderline top 10 player

[Dutchball97]

Utah is now in possession of the sole best record in the entire league. Conley does have an argument for best player on the Jazz so far with him leading the team in +-, VORP and coming in a close second to Gobert in WS. So if you take best player on the best team very literally you could end up with Conley as your MVP but realistically Gobert is the one making this a top 3 defense, while the top 5 offense is more of a collaborative effort between Conley, Gobert, Clarkson and occasional strong Mitchell games.

Either way neither of them should be in the MVP convo. The Spurs were probably the best team in tbe league in 2014 but giving old Tim Duncan MVP for that makes little sense. Same with giving someone like Billups or Ben Wallace MVP for the mid 00s Pistons success.

I will say Gobert has been trending upwards rapidly. Early in the season I'd argue he was just as disappointing as Mitchell with Conley and Clarkson leading the way for the Jazz but the last few games really seems to signal Gobert being back to form.

2019-21 Rudy is prolly better than anyone on the 04 Pistons or 14 Spurs. He's a legit borderline top 10 player

There definitely is an argument for Gobert being better than anyone on those teams especially when looking just at the regular season. My point is that giving a borderline top 10 player the MVP just because he was the best player on the team with the best record doesn't sound like the best way to go about it.

[parsnips33]

Has anybody noticed any long term effects in guys who tested positive for COVID? Might be making too much of it/seeing something that's not there, but it looks like Draymond's been a half step slower, conditioning a bit off, since returning from COVID protocol. I know it's supposed to have potentially long term effects on lung capacity, so I thought it could be something

[bondom34]

Has anybody noticed any long term effects in guys who tested positive for COVID? Might be making too much of it/seeing something that's not there, but it looks like Draymond's been a half step slower, conditioning a bit off, since returning from COVID protocol. I know it's supposed to have potentially long term effects on lung capacity, so I thought it could be something

Noticed a few and was thinking about it but don't know what to pin it on. Don't want to definitively say it was/is COVID or something else, but not sure.

Mo Bamba's barely played since getting it in like June/July iirc (granted he barely played before, but think I heard there were lung issues).

Westbrook had a quad issue too but I'm not sure if it's that or COVID or either or both. Haven't watched the Wizards too much since the first few games but he's getting to the rim almost never (lowest rate of his career) and has attempted a total of 2 dunks. He short rimmed one and the other slowed up and kinda just did a soft lay in sort of dunk. His only attempts per NBA.com (spoilering the link, its long).

Spoiler:

https://www.nba.com/stats/events/?flag=3&CFID=300&CFPARAMS=Dunk&PlayerID=201566&TeamID=0&GameID=&ContextMeasure=FGA&Season=2020-21&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&LeagueID=00&PlusMinus=N&PaceAdjust=N&Rank=N&Outcome=&Location=&Month=0&SeasonSegment=&OpponentTeamID=0&VsConference=&VsDivision=&GameSegment=&Period=0&LastNGames=0&DateFrom=&DateTo=&PORound=0&ShotClockRange=&MeasureType=Base&PerMode=Totals&section=player

Edit: And saw this, which is super weird.

https://www.awesemo.com/sideaction/scott-brooks-says-he-will-punish-team-if-russell-westbrook-dunks-bjs/

[freethedevil]

Utah is now in possession of the sole best record in the entire league. Conley does have an argument for best player on the Jazz so far with him leading the team in +-, VORP and coming in a close second to Gobert in WS. So if you take best player on the best team very literally you could end up with Conley as your MVP but realistically Gobert is the one making this a top 3 defense, while the top 5 offense is more of a collaborative effort between Conley, Gobert, Clarkson and occasional strong Mitchell games.

Either way neither of them should be in the MVP convo. The Spurs were probably the best team in tbe league in 2014 but giving old Tim Duncan MVP for that makes little sense. Same with giving someone like Billups or Ben Wallace MVP for the mid 00s Pistons success.

I will say Gobert has been trending upwards rapidly. Early in the season I'd argue he was just as disappointing as Mitchell with Conley and Clarkson leading the way for the Jazz but the last few games really seems to signal Gobert being back to form.

2019-21 Rudy is prolly better than anyone on the 04 Pistons or 14 Spurs. He's a legit borderline top 10 player

Kawhi was clearly top 10 in 2014 lol. At least if you go by the data that suggests gobert could be top 10.

[GSP]

Utah is now in possession of the sole best record in the entire league. Conley does have an argument for best player on the Jazz so far with him leading the team in +-, VORP and coming in a close second to Gobert in WS. So if you take best player on the best team very literally you could end up with Conley as your MVP but realistically Gobert is the one making this a top 3 defense, while the top 5 offense is more of a collaborative effort between Conley, Gobert, Clarkson and occasional strong Mitchell games.

Either way neither of them should be in the MVP convo. The Spurs were probably the best team in tbe league in 2014 but giving old Tim Duncan MVP for that makes little sense. Same with giving someone like Billups or Ben Wallace MVP for the mid 00s Pistons success.

I will say Gobert has been trending upwards rapidly. Early in the season I'd argue he was just as disappointing as Mitchell with Conley and Clarkson leading the way for the Jazz but the last few games really seems to signal Gobert being back to form.

2019-21 Rudy is prolly better than anyone on the 04 Pistons or 14 Spurs. He's a legit borderline top 10 player

Kawhi was clearly top 10 in 2014 lol. At least if you go by the data that suggests gobert could be top 10.

No he wasnt

Bron
Kd
Cp3
Blake
Dirk
Love
Steph
George
Russ
Aldridge
Dwight
Davis
Melo
Harden
Dragic

were all clearly better than any Spur IMO. You know Kawhi wasnt even sniffing an allstar selection that year right? And even the playoffs there numerous games and even series where Kawhi wasnt the best player on his team. How was he clearly top 10?

[freethedevil]

2019-21 Rudy is prolly better than anyone on the 04 Pistons or 14 Spurs. He's a legit borderline top 10 player

Kawhi was clearly top 10 in 2014 lol. At least if you go by the data that suggests gobert could be top 10.

No he wasnt

Bron
Kd
Cp3
Blake
Dirk
Love
Steph
George
Russ
Aldridge
Dwight
Davis
Melo
Harden
Dragic

were all clearly better than any Spur IMO. You know Kawhi wasnt even sniffing an allstar selection that year right? And even the playoffs there numerous games and even series where Kawhi wasnt the best player on his team. How was he clearly top 10?

Rudy Gobert also wasn't an all star in 2019. Why exactly should I care for about media votes entirely based on offensive slashlines.

Every impact metric put shim as top 10 in the regular season both in volume(wins added) and effiency(per minuite). Defense matters it seems. And then off course, he got even better in the postseason, which is more than I can say for melo, love, aldridge harden or dragic. Why would Gobert be top 10 if Kawhi isn't? What exactly does gobert have aside from defensive impact?


Also Melo? Slashline stuffing doesn't make you good.