'17-'18 POY discussion

[bondom34]

Yeah I took down the flairs. Oddly feels freeing. Going to enjoy basketball again I think .

Also I can't say how much I hate Melo's game

[GSP]

What are the odds for Pelicans/Warriors? I dont see how Gs wins.

They could barely even get the ball to Durant on some of these possessions. This 4Q has been an absolute embarrassment. They are not good.

This series couldve gone 6 had they played the Mills, Manu, Gay, Lma and Bertans lineup more.

Its honestly ridiculous how good Manu still is BTW.

Tony and especially Pau have been DREADFUL in recent seasons tho. Complete negatives

[bondom34]

Feels weird to say but Gentry has done a great job too in NOLA. I give them a definite shot.

[GSP]

Feels weird to say but Gentry has done a great job too in NOLA. I give them a definite shot.

I would favor them at this point even without Hca

[Dr Spaceman]

What are the odds for Pelicans/Warriors? I dont see how Gs wins.

They could barely even get the ball to Durant on some of these possessions. This 4Q has been an absolute embarrassment. They are not good.

This series couldve gone 6 had they played the Mills, Manu, Gay, Lma and Bertans lineup more.

Its honestly ridiculous how good Manu still is BTW.

Tony and especially Pau have been DREADFUL in recent seasons tho. Complete negatives

Yeah, too often they play lineups that just have no shooting and it gets them in trouble offensively. Aldridge with adequate spacing has been working the Dubs interior all series. When he had space to actually drive and attack the rim GSW had nothing to do except foul him, which they did a lot tonight. Worry signs when your next matchup is Davis.

The Spurs were never going to be competitive without decent point guard play, which they didn’t have outside of 20 minutes of Manu. Like you said, just insane how effective he still is, there’s some possessions he’d start by throwing the dribble way out ahead of him, I think he was forcing himself to catch up to get those old man legs to move in transition

Draymond was effective this series but there are worrying signs here. I don’t know how much his lauded “switch onto everybody” ability is actually holding up this season. His post defense was good but perimeter guys felt comfortable attacking him in a way I’ve never seen in his career as a starter. He was an absolute disaster scoring the ball as well. If he’s not an absolute A+ defender going forward, his flaws become trickier to manage when he can only play like a taller and slower Rondo on offense.

The Warriors also don’t look like they’re ready to play fast. I haven’t looked at the numbers but to my eye this was the slowest first round series by a margin. If he Warriors allow the Pels to dictate the pace there could be some ugly results. 40 Point quarters for NOP aren’t out of the question.

I don’t know. Golden State can win for sure. I don’t know if I’d favor them right now though.

[yoyoboy]

For anyone whos just a general fan, what was your tipping point? I think OKC has me there.

I haven't enjoyed this season at all, its been zero fun to watch their games and I rather others a lot more. Still like Russ but that team is miserable and I just want good ball.

This season has been harder on me than any season I've watched the Cavs. I legitimately haven't had any fun watching them aside for a select few games, like the Boston game immediately after the trades. But it's for the most part just felt like a chore that I can't wait to be over. There was Gilbert firing Griffin who was a guy I actually really trusted. And then we got rid of likable personalities like Frye and Jefferson who really brought the team together. We traded away Kyrie who's been here since he was 19 and helped bring the city its first title in 50+ years and now the prized possession from the trade is an 8th pick that I don't have much confidence at all in this organization getting right - in fact, Gilbert invited Miles Bridges to sit courtside at Game 1. Not Mikal who would be a reasonable pick at 8, but Miles who would be a crazy reach and of course he went to MSU the same school Gilbert went to. The failed IT experiment was a disaster and watching the team's lack of effort in January was beyond frustrating. Tristan has been an annoyance on and off the court. JR went from being a lovable knucklehead to the JR of old. Then the overriding constant state of pressure and stress that comes with having LeBron yet this time the team isn't anywhere near good enough to actually contend. And finally Lue...from his terrible rotations to his archaic defensive schemes that leave guys wide open from three to his nonexistent offensive system to his obsession with players like Jeff Green who makes my eyes bleed every time he jacks up a three. I don't like Clarkson; he's a selfish player who is stuck on this team for another 2 years now. We'll most likely resign Hood even though that would be a terrible decision. And it just sucks knowing that guys like Cedi and Zizic, who I actually like on and off the court, will most likely never reach their potential here because of our horrible player development, and I expect them to get packaged as throw ins in some trade so that they can find great roles elsewhere. From the championship season, just LeBron, Love, JR, and Tristan remain. I dislike the latter two now, which is crazy to me because I loved them just a couple years ago, but Tristan stopped caring and went Hollywood while JR gave in to his immaturity and just isn't good anymore. And since LeBron is likely to leave...the emotional attachment is just harder and harder to keep up.

I expect us to go 7 against Indiana and then either get beaten by Toronto in the 2nd round or completely dominated by Philly in the ECF in demoralizing fashion knowing it'll signal a new era and LeBron moving on from this team. What's the likelihood we even keep Love around once LeBron is gone? I don't see him having much value on the market at all considering his age so we'll most likely get some minor assets for him, like 2 late future firsts and filler. And so next year I get to look forward to a team where Rodney Hood, Jordan Clarkson, and probably Miles Bridges are leading the team in shots, coached by Lue. It's just a depressing reality and I do wish I had the ability to detach and become a general NBA fan who can just appreciate the sport as a whole and have fun watching all teams and players, but unfortunately I know I won't be able to stop following the team no matter how much I try and no matter how much it pains me to watch.

[eminence]

Feel like the struggles of GS against the Spurs are a bit overstated, they still wound up with a +10 margin on the series (better than the Pelicans actually, lol). If Curry doesn't return I might lean Pelicans by the slimmest of margins, but if he does I expect it to be a route.

[RSCD3_]

For anyone whos just a general fan, what was your tipping point? I think OKC has me there.

I haven't enjoyed this season at all, its been zero fun to watch their games and I rather others a lot more. Still like Russ but that team is miserable and I just want good ball.

I wouldnt say killed my fandom but when we traded chauncey billups for a rapidly declining ALLEN IVERSON I audibly went wtf. Well actually "what the frick" because I was 13, that decision imo is the worst move dumars made. Forget flubbing the #2, cashing out our cap space on ben and charlie v or believing in the " Stuckey is a poor mans D wade " delusion for 3 years too long. He took out the soul of that team and they started caring less amd fell to the bottom, managing to sneak into the playoffs and get swept. Akl the whike the nuggets almost made he finals...

[eminence]

My In-The-Clubhouse Leaderboard:

1. Jokic
2. Kemba
3. Dame - would have been #1 among these guys after the RS, but that playoff performance was bad enough to drop. Behind Jokic for sure, up in the air vs Kemba.
4. Aldridge
5. Not many good options. Maybe Drummond I guess? Whoever you like from the Heat?

[Clyde Frazier]

Nah, I don't see a Curry-less Warriors dispatching the Hornets so easily. In fact, I think they're in trouble without Curry. I'll actually go ahead and say Pelicans beat them in a series if Curry is out.

Warriors just aren't that good without Curry, they're beating up on a Spurs team that is the very definition of pretender, and has no real firepower outside of Aldridge. They're still depending on a 40 year old Manu for crying out loud.

Anyone else in the 3-8 range would have given the Warriors serious trouble in the 1st round.

I’m not chastising your pick or anything, but don’t you think you’re being a little prisoner of the moment? In other words, is there a reasonable possibility the pelicans beat the warriors if curry’s out the whole series? Sure, but I think confidently picking them over the warriors who have an MVP level player in their own right, better supporting cast and continuity is pushing it. NOLA looks great, but they just haven’t had a sustained level of success.

All that said, they *do* need curry back as soon as possible. Even if they did make it past NOLA without him, fatigue is going to catch up with the rest of the team, and they aren’t the same without him, to say the least. As a curry fan, it’s very frustrating seeing him go through this again in the playoffs.

[therealbig3]

Nah, I don't see a Curry-less Warriors dispatching the Hornets so easily. In fact, I think they're in trouble without Curry. I'll actually go ahead and say Pelicans beat them in a series if Curry is out.

Warriors just aren't that good without Curry, they're beating up on a Spurs team that is the very definition of pretender, and has no real firepower outside of Aldridge. They're still depending on a 40 year old Manu for crying out loud.

Anyone else in the 3-8 range would have given the Warriors serious trouble in the 1st round.

I’m not chastising your pick or anything, but don’t you think you’re being a little prisoner of the moment? In other words, is there a reasonable possibility the pelicans beat the warriors if curry’s out the whole series? Sure, but I think confidently picking them over the warriors who have an MVP level player in their own right, better supporting cast and continuity is pushing it. NOLA looks great, but they just haven’t had a sustained level of success.

All that said, they *do* need curry back as soon as possible. Even if they did make it past NOLA without him, fatigue is going to catch up with the rest of the team, and they aren’t the same without him, to say the least. As a curry fan, it’s very frustrating seeing him go through this again in the playoffs.

Of course I’m being prisoner of the moment, that’s the fun of the playoffs lol.

But it’s really just a prediction on my part, not sure how much confidence there seems to be attached to it...I’m not willing to bet any money on my pick or anything.

[Clyde Frazier]

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[GSP]

Victor has looked like Okc Oladipo in this series after game 1......

[mischievous]

Victor has looked like Okc Oladipo in this series after game 1......

Top 5 player in the league .

[eminence]

Wolves join my In-The-Clubhouse Leaderboard, not overly impressed with their play vs the Rockets:

1. Jokic
2. Kemba
3. Dame
4. Aldridge
5. Towns/Butler - Towns with a bad series, Butler missed a bunch of games and wasn't the same post injury (which is a bummer)

[The-Power]

Victor has looked like Okc Oladipo in this series after game 1......

Top 5 player in the league .

Top 5 player this RS is something I can even understand, so being talked about in the context of POY was absolutely fair and reasonable. But all the talk about superstardom were clearly premature. He's on the right path and might get there but no player makes such a jump over the course of one off-season. And even if one player happens to be the absolute exception, we should go with the odds and wait a bit longer to proclaim him a superstar.

[INKtastic]

To followup on the discussion a few days ago about the best player in the playoffs.

LeBron's playoff stats from basketball reference:

PPG: 34.8 (#2 player 33.0)
PER: 35.2 (#2 player 32.0)
Win Share: 1.6 (#2 player 1.0)
Win Share/48: .365 (#2 player .323)
VORP: 1.0 (#2 player 0.6)

LeBron's playoff stats from stats.nba.com

PIE: 28.4 (#2 player 19.2)

Also, there is this. LeBron scored 20 points in each half yesterday. No other cavs player has scored 20 points in an entire game this playoffs. Only one teammate has averaged double digits, Kevin Love at 11.8. LeBron has willed them to a 3-2 series lead.

[dhsilv2]

To followup on the discussion a few days ago about the best player in the playoffs.

LeBron's playoff stats from basketball reference:

PPG: 34.8 (#2 player 33.0)
PER: 35.2 (#2 player 32.0)
Win Share: 1.6 (#2 player 1.0)
Win Share/48: .365 (#2 player .323)
VORP: 1.0 (#2 player 0.6)

LeBron's playoff stats from stats.nba.com

PIE: 28.4 (#2 player 19.2)

Also, there is this. LeBron scored 20 points in each half yesterday. No other cavs player has scored 20 points in an entire game this playoffs. Only one teammate has averaged double digits, Kevin Love at 11.8. LeBron has willed them to a 3-2 series lead.

I keep not turning on the games, but who's locking down Depo? That's why they're winning more than anything else.

[dontcalltimeout]

I keep not turning on the games, but who's locking down Depo? That's why they're winning more than anything else.

It's mostly a trapping scheme that's taking away his looks out of the PNR.

Dipo is still a mismatch for anyone on the Cavs when he backs up and runs downhill, but when a screener comes it makes it easy to trap. At the end of last game, he did an okay job of getting the ball to Sabonis at the nail, or someone on the wing who then quickly passes it to Sabonis. That got them some open looks, but Cleveland has been pretty decent at rotating quickly and if there's hesitation or a bad pass, the advantage is lost.

The biggest difference in his efficiency is just his shooting. He has been dreadful at spoting up & shooting off the dribble jump shot when he was great in the regular season. The shot just seems to have left him. He's shooting way worse than he did all year from all distances, but I'm not sure there's an obvious explanation for that.

[The-Power]

The shot just seems to have left him. He's shooting way worse than he did all year from all distances, but I'm not sure there's an obvious explanation for that.

The sample size is still super small, especially for his midrange jumpers. I wouldn't read to much into that efficiency-wise, but his inability to find other spots on offense to be effective has hurt him. Missing too much around the rim doesn't help either.