2020-21 NBA Season Discussion

[Peregrine01]

Rockets on a five game winning streak...clearly not as bad of a team as Harden thought. With all the picks that they have I’m coming around to thinking that they’re gonna be better off from this trade.

[bondom34]

Tonight seemed to be a night the Suns could enjoy CP3.

[therealbig3]

So...what's up with the Bucks? Giannis is still putting up monster numbers, they apparently got way better with Holiday instead of Bledsoe...and yet they're only 11-8, and their defense is nowhere close to as good as it was last year.

And of their wins...2 of them have come against .500 or better teams (GS in game 2 without Draymond, and Atlanta). Otherwise they're just beating up on bad teams. Even then, 4 of their 8 losses are against teams below .500, including being one of the few teams to actually lose to a Butler-less Heat team. Their other 4 losses are against the only teams they've played that are projected to be contenders by the end of the season: Boston, Utah, Brooklyn, LAL. In other words, against the actual contenders on their schedule, they're 0-4.

This team looks figured out. Yeah, early in the season and all, but 19 games also isn't exactly a small sample size. And unlike a lot of the other teams, they haven't really been hit by injuries/quarantine at all. And they've done what people said they needed to do: they upgraded Bledsoe to Holiday, and they're playing Giannis more than they did in his previous 2 seasons.

[GSP]

Rockets on a five game winning streak...clearly not as bad of a team as Harden thought. With all the picks that they have I’m coming around to thinking that they’re gonna be better off from this trade.

Oladipo is a way better fit on that team than Harden. Doesnt need or hold the ball nearly as much. Moves off the ball quite a bit and Harden/Wall and Harden/Russ are just bad fits. And Dipo is one of the best perimeter defenders in the game too and Walls been a great defensive Pg most of his career. If Dipo is back to 18 Dipo levels I dont even think hes a significantly worse player than Harden either

[bondom34]

Teams are shooting 47% on 3s in their losses, and their defense is built to stop shots at the rim to give up a few more 3s. Plus the trade was generally for the playoffs at the cost of RS wins/depth. Not ideal, but not putting up red flags tbh. Also they're not giving up a ton of wide open 3s but opponents hitting them like crazy (44% iirc?). For comparison the Knicks opponents are at like 31% to lead the league.

Also need Houston to lose more, OKC has that pick .

[GSP]

So...what's up with the Bucks? Giannis is still putting up monster numbers, they apparently got way better with Holiday instead of Bledsoe...and yet they're only 11-8, and their defense is nowhere close to as good as it was last year.

And of their wins...2 of them have come against .500 or better teams (GS in game 2 without Draymond, and Atlanta). Otherwise they're just beating up on bad teams. Even then, 4 of their 8 losses are against teams below .500, including being one of the few teams to actually lose to a Butler-less Heat team. Their other 4 losses are against the only teams they've played that are projected to be contenders by the end of the season: Boston, Utah, Brooklyn, LAL. In other words, against the actual contenders on their schedule, they're 0-4.

This team looks figured out. Yeah, early in the season and all, but 19 games also isn't exactly a small sample size. And unlike a lot of the other teams, they haven't really been hit by injuries/quarantine at all. And they've done what people said they needed to do: they upgraded Bledsoe to Holiday, and they're playing Giannis more than they did in his previous 2 seasons.

Their defense was always gimmicky. Giannis in reality isnt really a Dpoy level defender like Rudy, Ad, Bam, prime Draymond etc. Not even sure hes clearly better than either of the Sixers duo. But the system really maximized his strengths as a help defender but he had great defenders at almost every position (Bledsoe, Wes last year, Brook etc). And Brooks job as an elite post defender and rim protector was a key aspect of their defense

now most teams have a big who can pick and pop at a high clip to draw Brook or Giannis out and able to run plays around that. Lakers were abusing hammer play in the 4th and they could barely defend them. Many more players are able to take pullup 3s now too and have ended that and step backs to their game. Which their defense is very open to.

They still have the best offense in the league and 2nd in Srs. Their system works against most teams but they lose tight games b/c those elite teams usually have offensive options to beat their defense like the ending of the Brooklyn game. And Giannis isnt really a great late game option on offense. They run alot of stuff through Middleton and just using Giannis as a screener is easier to defend. And Giannis doesnt have a good enough handle, a jumper or any post game/skills so they cant rely on him much to eek out close games they should win even tho their scoring margin indicates they should have a much better record from some of the blowouts

[therealbig3]

Teams are shooting 47% on 3s in their losses, and their defense is built to stop shots at the rim to give up a few more 3s. Plus the trade was generally for the playoffs at the cost of RS wins/depth. Not ideal, but not putting up red flags tbh. Also they're not giving up a ton of wide open 3s but opponents hitting them like crazy (44% iirc?). For comparison the Knicks opponents are at like 31% to lead the league.

Also need Houston to lose more, OKC has that pick .

I think 0-4 against the only good teams they've played is a bit of a red flag. Obviously, they'll win some of these as the season goes on, but in general, a team that doesn't do well against the top competition and then beats up on the bad competition is the definition of a pretender to me.

Not to mention that they've been relatively untouched by injuries/COVID relative to other teams.

[AussieBuck]

So...what's up with the Bucks? Giannis is still putting up monster numbers, they apparently got way better with Holiday instead of Bledsoe...and yet they're only 11-8, and their defense is nowhere close to as good as it was last year.

And of their wins...2 of them have come against .500 or better teams (GS in game 2 without Draymond, and Atlanta). Otherwise they're just beating up on bad teams. Even then, 4 of their 8 losses are against teams below .500, including being one of the few teams to actually lose to a Butler-less Heat team. Their other 4 losses are against the only teams they've played that are projected to be contenders by the end of the season: Boston, Utah, Brooklyn, LAL. In other words, against the actual contenders on their schedule, they're 0-4.

This team looks figured out. Yeah, early in the season and all, but 19 games also isn't exactly a small sample size. And unlike a lot of the other teams, they haven't really been hit by injuries/quarantine at all. And they've done what people said they needed to do: they upgraded Bledsoe to Holiday, and they're playing Giannis more than they did in his previous 2 seasons.

Defense got figured out a year ago, the team is 20-21 in the last 41 games over about a year. It's not really a new thing, it just got dragged out due to covid and what not. Brook got slower and can't really be covered up for anymore, we lost our depth and added a couple of tiny guards that are backups but shouldn't play together in Augustin and Forbes.

There's just too many good shooters in the league and teams can pick and choose who they want to shoot against us. Just have your 5 set a pick outside the three point line and a guy of your choosing can play a game of 2 on one from the three point line while Lopez or Portis sits in the restricted area.

[MyUniBroDavis]

So...what's up with the Bucks? Giannis is still putting up monster numbers, they apparently got way better with Holiday instead of Bledsoe...and yet they're only 11-8, and their defense is nowhere close to as good as it was last year.

And of their wins...2 of them have come against .500 or better teams (GS in game 2 without Draymond, and Atlanta). Otherwise they're just beating up on bad teams. Even then, 4 of their 8 losses are against teams below .500, including being one of the few teams to actually lose to a Butler-less Heat team. Their other 4 losses are against the only teams they've played that are projected to be contenders by the end of the season: Boston, Utah, Brooklyn, LAL. In other words, against the actual contenders on their schedule, they're 0-4.

This team looks figured out. Yeah, early in the season and all, but 19 games also isn't exactly a small sample size. And unlike a lot of the other teams, they haven't really been hit by injuries/quarantine at all. And they've done what people said they needed to do: they upgraded Bledsoe to Holiday, and they're playing Giannis more than they did in his previous 2 seasons.

Defense got figured out a year ago, the team is 20-21 in the last 41 games over about a year. It's not really a new thing, it just got dragged out due to covid and what not. Brook got slower and can't really be covered up for anymore, we lost our depth and added a couple of tiny guards that are backups but shouldn't play together in Augustin and Forbes.

There's just too many good shooters in the league and teams can pick and choose who they want to shoot against us. Just have your 5 set a pick outside the three point line and a guy of your choosing can play a game of 2 on one from the three point line while Lopez or Portis sits in the restricted area.

Out of curiousity you think budenholzer got better?

Bucks success relies on if he can make adjustments in the playoffs now I think. It’s just been like 5 years straight even pre bucks where he’s failed in that regard

[limbo]

The Bucks, and Bud in particular, have been getting eviscerated for several years about their lack of adjustments and counters outside of their regular system, which ends up hurting them heavily in the Playoffs...

Clearly they are switching things up now, which has led them from being a historically dominant defensive team and turning into a historically dominant offensive team so far, but some people are still not satisfied, and are calling them 'figured out' based on 20 covid-ridden regular season games...

Relax.

[therealbig3]

The Bucks, and Bud in particular, have been getting eviscerated for several years about their lack of adjustments and counters outside of their regular system, which ends up hurting them heavily in the Playoffs...

Clearly they are switching things up now, which has led them from being a historically dominant defensive team and turning into a historically dominant offensive team so far, but some people are still not satisfied, and are calling them 'figured out' based on 20 covid-ridden regular season games...

Relax.

They have better roster and coaching continuity than most of the other contenders, have been less affected by these covid-ridden regular season games than most of the other contenders, and they don't seem like they've switched up their playing style at all on either side of the ball actually, it just looks less effective on the defensive end so far.

They've also had an easy schedule (only 6 games against teams .500 or better, in which they're 2-4).

Literally everything has broken their way thus far, and they don't even look like the 60 win-#1 seed they at least were the previous 2 years before running into trouble in the PS.

[limbo]

They have better roster and coaching continuity than most of the other contenders, have been less affected by these covid-ridden regular season games than most of the other contenders, and they don't seem like they've switched up their playing style at all on either side of the ball actually, it just looks less effective on the defensive end so far.

They've also had an easy schedule (only 6 games against teams .500 or better, in which they're 2-4).

Literally everything has broken their way thus far, and they don't even look like the 60 win-#1 seed they at least were the previous 2 years before running into trouble in the PS.

I mean, you bring up fair points, granted...

They are a 6.46 SRS team so far, which is very good, but they really haven't beaten any great teams... They started off slow and then had that stretch when they were beating up on mediocre-to-bad teams... And they're 2-4 in their last 6, including losses to the Lakers and Nets as contending teams, and stinkers in their last two against the Pelicans and Hornets.

Idk. Admittedly they don't look particularly strong right now, but i'd give them more than 19 games for a proper evaluation... And like i said... They were the best team in the league for the last two regular season, and it didn't matter at the end... So clearly the lesson here is how you look in April/May (or whenever the Playoffs start now...), not how you look at the start or even in the whole of the regular season...

[MyUniBroDavis]

The Bucks, and Bud in particular, have been getting eviscerated for several years about their lack of adjustments and counters outside of their regular system, which ends up hurting them heavily in the Playoffs...

Clearly they are switching things up now, which has led them from being a historically dominant defensive team and turning into a historically dominant offensive team so far, but some people are still not satisfied, and are calling them 'figured out' based on 20 covid-ridden regular season games...

Relax.

I mean I think the bucks are fine but them changing something right now means nothing lol

[limbo]

I mean I think the bucks are fine but them changing something right now means nothing lol

That was basically my point...

Trying to extrapolate who the Bucks are going to be when the games will actually matter (based on 19 RS games so far) is relatively pointless...

They haven't looked good against the best competition, but they have been beating the teams they are suppose to beat pretty handily, and they've got the best offense in the league so far (and the offense was usually criticized for causing their demise in their Playoff exits)...

At the end of the day, i think the East is so close that it doesn't have any clear cut favorite to make the Finals... It might just depend on which team gets hot at the right time, or which team has the least nagging injuries... Like, nobody saw the Heat clicking the way they did in the bubble Playoffs last season... Ultimately, i still believe it will be either the Bucks or the Nets, but i wouldn't be surprised if it's Philly or Boston... I'm not even counting Miami out, despite the horrible start, but i imagine it will be hard to conjure up the same magic zone they were in last season... Also teams will have a better read on what their optimized playstyle looks like, while i think some teams might have been caught a bit off-guard the last time...

[bondom34]

Teams are shooting 47% on 3s in their losses, and their defense is built to stop shots at the rim to give up a few more 3s. Plus the trade was generally for the playoffs at the cost of RS wins/depth. Not ideal, but not putting up red flags tbh. Also they're not giving up a ton of wide open 3s but opponents hitting them like crazy (44% iirc?). For comparison the Knicks opponents are at like 31% to lead the league.

Also need Houston to lose more, OKC has that pick .

I think 0-4 against the only good teams they've played is a bit of a red flag. Obviously, they'll win some of these as the season goes on, but in general, a team that doesn't do well against the top competition and then beats up on the bad competition is the definition of a pretender to me.

Not to mention that they've been relatively untouched by injuries/COVID relative to other teams.

I won't say they've been impressive so far, just not counting them out. Kind of expected a worse regular season, and even to that they've underperformed, but there's just a lot of weird stuff this year and I struggle to move too far off my priors right now. Some of the shooting numbers seem too strange to discount them as a team near the top of the east, along with historical results. Ultimately still in the top tier of the east IMO at least until I see more.

Edit: Had to check, but their opponent location expected eFG vs the top 10 teams in point differential is 2nd in the league using CTG. Their opponent's actual eFG is 2nd to last, which is kind of amazing. Those teams shooting 45.7% on 3s against them, guessing that drops (for comparison vs the Lakers its 33.6%, Clippers 34%). Given how weird this year is, still in a pretty big wait and see mode, feel the same for most teams. Not counting out Dallas/Toronto/Miami from at least making a bit of a run to the playoffs either.

[MartinToVaught]

I wasn't expecting the Clippers to win today - early weekend game, on the road, no Batum or Beverley, playing against a very scrappy Knicks team that plays hard.

I definitely wasn't expecting them to score 129 points against one of the league's best defenses under these circumstances and win by double digits. Really impressive stuff.

Quickley is legit. The Knicks have an awesome prospect there. Not a huge fan of Thibs, but he's doing a great job there so far.

[Clyde Frazier]

I wasn't expecting the Clippers to win today - early weekend game, on the road, no Batum or Beverley, playing against a very scrappy Knicks team that plays hard.

I definitely wasn't expecting them to score 129 points against one of the league's best defenses under these circumstances and win by double digits. Really impressive stuff.

Quickley is legit. The Knicks have an awesome prospect there. Not a huge fan of Thibs, but he's doing a great job there so far.

Yeah you guys were on fire today. Good ball movement but i thought the knicks still defended the 3 well. Clips just hit some tough contested shots. Patrick Patterson was too much

Quickley is legit. The trend of kentucky guards not showcasing all their skills in college continues (murray, booker, shai, etc). His floater game and FT shooting have translated quite well. He's studied the foul baiting tactics of guys like harden, lou will, etc and he's already starting to get those calls. Also went out and watched kawhi's pregame routine today. Just a smart kid. We'll see where the dust settles at the end of the season but i really like his poise so far for a rookie.

[freethedevil]

So...what's up with the Bucks? Giannis is still putting up monster numbers, they apparently got way better with Holiday instead of Bledsoe...and yet they're only 11-8, and their defense is nowhere close to as good as it was last year.

And of their wins...2 of them have come against .500 or better teams (GS in game 2 without Draymond, and Atlanta). Otherwise they're just beating up on bad teams. Even then, 4 of their 8 losses are against teams below .500, including being one of the few teams to actually lose to a Butler-less Heat team. Their other 4 losses are against the only teams they've played that are projected to be contenders by the end of the season: Boston, Utah, Brooklyn, LAL. In other words, against the actual contenders on their schedule, they're 0-4.

This team looks figured out. Yeah, early in the season and all, but 19 games also isn't exactly a small sample size. And unlike a lot of the other teams, they haven't really been hit by injuries/quarantine at all. And they've done what people said they needed to do: they upgraded Bledsoe to Holiday, and they're playing Giannis more than they did in his previous 2 seasons.

Might just be sample size but so far giannis's defense ahas regressed via impact metrics and the bucks are a lot less deep which matters for the regular season.

Also, kind alike how the raptors seta blueprint for them defneisvely, th eheat may have shown everyone how you can hurt them --offensively--. .Their second round loss had a lot more to do with their defnse bottoming out than thei roffense. It wasn't an issue in 2019 but the league adapts when tesm are ahead of the curve. Giannis offensivekly has improved petty clearly with his passing and his off-ball game getting more rboust, but the defensive scheme where everyone stays inside and giannis goes plugging in holes everywhere might not work as well anymore.

Offensivelt y though, the're the best in the league so far and i imagine that gets better in the playoffs with their lack of a bench being less important. The question is doe sbud have something defensively for the playoffs.

[freethedevil]

I wasn't expecting the Clippers to win today - early weekend game, on the road, no Batum or Beverley, playing against a very scrappy Knicks team that plays hard.

I definitely wasn't expecting them to score 129 points against one of the league's best defenses under these circumstances and win by double digits. Really impressive stuff.

Quickley is legit. The Knicks have an awesome prospect there. Not a huge fan of Thibs, but he's doing a great job there so far.

Is ibaka the main reason rhey'r elooking so much better( in the rs?)

[MartinToVaught]

I wasn't expecting the Clippers to win today - early weekend game, on the road, no Batum or Beverley, playing against a very scrappy Knicks team that plays hard.

I definitely wasn't expecting them to score 129 points against one of the league's best defenses under these circumstances and win by double digits. Really impressive stuff.

Quickley is legit. The Knicks have an awesome prospect there. Not a huge fan of Thibs, but he's doing a great job there so far.

Is ibaka the main reason rhey'r elooking so much better( in the rs?)

He's one of the reasons. There's also Batum, who's been the perfect "glue guy" for us, and the addition by subtraction of moving on from Doc/Trez. It's probably not a coincidence that the chemistry issues from last season have disappeared now that we don't have a horrible coach who plays favorites or a diva who pouts and leaks negative stories to the media.