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Retro POY '01-02 (ends Thu morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:39 pm
by Doctor MJ
In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 best player seasons of '01-02. Some pointers:

-Change in schedule. We will now operate by splitting the week into thirds: Mon-Wed, Wed-Fri, Fri-Mon. I will label each thread with it's deadline.

-The voting panel is not officially closed. However, if you'd like to be a part of it, contact me - more dedicated, knowledgeable voters will always be wanted.

-This includes both regular and post-season. You should be weighing both in to some degree, and should not be ranking one star over another just because of how far each got in the playoffs.

-Vote sincerely. Do not move a player down in your voting to give another player an advantage. I would encourage every voter to give some explanations while they do their voting - but particularly if you have a top 5 that deviates strongly with the norm and you haven't expressed your thoughts on it earlier in the thread. If I'm not satisfied, I may ask you for more of an explanation - and it may come to actually booting people out of the project.

Some things to start us off:

Season Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _2002.html
Playoff Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _2002.html
Award Voting http://www.basketball-reference.com/awa ... _2002.html

Topics for '01-02:

-Lakers win again
-Credit for winning in a bad eastern conference?
-Presumably more Duncan & Garnett

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:47 pm
by sp6r=underrated
We are approaching years that are far enough back that our memories may be getting shaky. I'm going to try to locate NBA season previews for all seasons going forward. I'll highlight articles on relevant players and teams from that season. SI is easy, but I'm not going to limit my search there. I'll also try to find other articles that may refresh our memory. This is from the Sporting News.

76ERS 2001-2002

Leading man: SG Allen Iverson finally is realizing he doesn't have to recite a soliloquy to be the star of the show. Last season, he won the league MVP award--not so much because of his league-high 31.1 points a game, but because he used the rest of his cast to create a smash production. Iverson is without peer at getting to the basket, specializing in breaking down his man with a deadly crossover dribble. He's almost unstoppable in the open court and has worked to dramatically improve his long-range shooting. Iverson now trusts other members of coach Larry Brown's ensemble, which makes them function better as a whole. Recent elbow surgery should make Iverson a little less brittle after battling the nagging injury most of last season.

Supporting roles: C Dikembe Mutombo again will be a force on defense and on the boards, but he'll attempt to exploit his scoring skills as he did in The Finals last season. G/F Aaron McKie, the NBA's Sixth Man of the Year because of his ability to knock down the clutch shot at one end of the floor after vigorously defending his man at the other, is invaluable. McKie is expected to miss some early games while recovering from September shoulder surgery.

Miscast: When healthy, PF Matt Geiger can score from the wings, rebound and bang people around. The problem is that the 76ers never know when he'll be able to play. On a team where Iverson, PG Eric Snow, McKie, PF George Lynch and others regularly play hurt, Geiger is the exception. It also remains to be seen how a team powered by Iverson's drives to the basket will respond to the rule changes. The 76ers say going against zones isn't new, but it might not be a smooth adjustment now that the zones they've been seeing are legal. --Jon Marks PF MATT GEIGER If he stays healthy, he could help, but that's a big if.

SF matt harpring Newcomer should fit right into Larry Brown's system; knows how to shoot and defend.

C dikembe mutombo Always could block shots and rebound; now he wants to become a scorer, too.

SG allen iverson Showed his versatility in the playoffs; that might be needed again because of elbow surgery.

PG eric snow Vows a second major ankle surgery in a year won't slow him.


Spurs 2001-2002

Leading man: Coach Gregg Popovich expects PF Tim Duncan to take charge more often, on and off the court. Now in his fifth season, Duncan has all the tools to be the league's best player. The key is getting him to understand how much he can control a game. Most important, Duncan's left knee no longer is the cause for concern it was a year ago. Once again confident with his body, Duncan has lost the tentativeness he played with early last season. The Spurs believe he will shed last year's free-throw shooting woes.

Supporting roles: Losing SG Derek Anderson was a blow, but the team has a deeper, more versatile roster. SF Bruce Bowen is solid on defense, but his offensive skills aren't as polished as retired Sean Elliott's. Except for needing an occasional 3-pointer from him, the team won't have to rely on Bowen too much for points. Bowen, SG Steve Smith, PG Antonio Daniels and rookie PG Tony Parker--one of the league's quickest players--will allow SF Danny Ferry and SG Terry Porter to move back to the reserve roles for which they are better-suited. C David Robinson is one of the NBA's best defensive players when he's healthy. C Cherokee Parks and F/C Mark Bryant upgrade the team's size inside.

Miscast: After playing well as a shooting guard last year, Daniels will get another chance at becoming the team's starting point guard in his fifth NBA season. Daniels has developed into an above-average defender and a serious 3-point threat, but he needs time to mature as a quarterback. If Daniels struggles, expect Smith to run the offense until Parker is ready to take over. On defense, the Spurs sometimes will have to hide Smith. He looks slower than he really is, but his aging knees make it difficult for him to keep up with the younger, more athletic guards. --Johnny Ludden PF tim duncan With Avery Johnson gone, the Spurs will expect Duncan to take charge on the court.

SF bruce bowen The team could have used his defense in last season's conference finals against Kobe Bryant.

C david robinson Averaged a career-low in minutes last season, but he now has more depth behind him.

SG steve smith Spurs might miss Derek Anderson's athleticism, but new zone defenses will benefit Smith.

PG antonio daniels Daniels began to come into his own at the end of last season--as a shooting guard.


2001-2002 Mavericks

Leading man: SF Dirk Nowitzki has surpassed SG Michael Finley as the team's go-to guy. His offensive versatility makes him perfect for coach Don Nelson's up-tempo offense, especially when Nowitzki plays center in a "small ball'' lineup. Nowitzki is a budding All-Star who can play all three frontcourt positions and has the ballhandling skills to fill in at shooting guard. His shooting range and ability to run the floor are extraordinary.

Supporting roles: The starting five who finished last season return: Nowitzki, Finley, PG Steve Nash, PF Juwan Howard and C Shawn Bradley. Nelson had to push his starters too hard last season, so PF Danny Manning, PG Tim Hardaway, G/F Adrian Griffin, C Evan Eschmeyer, and PG Khalid El-Amin were brought in to beef up the bench. Manning is an upgrade over any of the reserve forwards the team used last season. Griffin and SG Greg Buckner will compete for minutes as the perimeter defensive specialist. C Wang Zhizhi's development was hindered because he missed camp due to obligations to the Chinese National team. Eduardo Najera and Donnell Harvey are competing for an end-of-the-bench forward role.

Miscast: The team still is short in the frontcourt, leaving the Mavericks vulnerable against the Lakers, Spurs and Kings--the teams Dallas hopes to compete with at the top of the Western Conference. Manning and Griffin give the Mavericks more maneuverability up front. Man-ning can play both forward spots and fill in at center, but Griffin won't play inside. Bradley uses his intimidating 7-6 presence to shut down the middle against average teams, but he doesn't match up well against athletic big men. His value increases with the new rules allowing zones, but Nelson will use zones sparingly. --Ken Sins PF juwan howard Provides badly needed low-post offense, but he must show more defensive toughness.

SF dirk nowitzki Big playoff series against the Spurs could propel this sharp-shooter to All-Star status.

C shawn bradley New zone defenses could make this 7-6 shot blocker more of a defensive factor.

SG michael finley Two-time All-Star will benefit from a deeper bench, leaving him fresher for the stretch run.

PG Steve nash Restful summer should make him more effective when the playoffs start. He wore out last season.


2001-2002 Wolves

Leading man: SF Kevin Garnett has been getting top billing for years now, and it's well deserved. He's a rare combination: a 7-footer (even though he insists he's 6-11) with the versatility to play almost anywhere and defend almost anyone. Everything revolves around him, even when he doesn't score the points. Opponents must make him their focus, and he often responds by taking a pass on the block, waiting for the double-team and kicking the ball back out for an open jump shot.

Supporting roles: Taking the passes from Garnett and making opponents pay are PG Terrell Brandon and SG Wally Szczerbiak. However, there are whispers about Brandon's competitiveness, and his own words often reinforce those comments. As Brandon, 31, appears ready to step down before his time, Szczerbiak, 24, expects to take a step up. The coaching staff wants Szczerbiak to play more at shooting guard, instead of small forward. The move is possible with the return of PF Joe Smith. Szczerbiak is a great shooter and worked on his ballhandling in the offseason. His defensive quickness will be the main question. After a one-year absence, Smith gives the team more muscle in the middle and a hard-nosed rebounder and defender.

Miscast: C Rasho Nesterovic hasn't panned out the way the team hoped when it drafted him in the first round in 1998. He is inconsistent and often lackadaisical. The team needs someone in the middle to take up space and reduce the offensive pressure on Garnett. Rookie C Loren Woods, a second-round pick, has been slow to pick up the offense but remains the top option. Another trouble spot is shooting guard, but the team hopes moving Szczerbiak solves that. SG Anthony Peeler has experience, but is a streaky shooter and slow defender. --John Millea PF joe smith He's back where he wants to be; after signing a big contract, he knows all eyes are on him.

SF kevin garnett Keeps getting better and better, but his teammates must take some off the load off him.

C rasho nesterovic Must show improved intensity and consistency or rookie Loren Woods will take his job.

SG wally szczerbiak Moves from small forward in his third year; the big question is his defensive quickness.

PG terrell brandon Must stay healthy and hit jump shots to lessen defensive pressure on Garnett.


2001-2002 Lakers

Leading man: It doesn't seem like long ago the question about C Shaquille O'Neal was: Will he ever win a ring? Now the question is: Will he ever lose again? The old rivals at his position are falling away, and the new wave is a mild swell. O'Neal will turn 30 during the season, and the issues from here on are his health and his interest level. O'Neal provided good news on the health front when he pronounced himself pain-free six weeks after toe surgery, joined Lakers practice two weeks into training camp and said he expected to play in the season opener against the Blazers.

Supporting roles: Don't fight over top billing, fellas. Let's agree that this is O'Neal's team but that soon it will be SG Kobe Bryant's league. Bryant has raised his scoring average four seasons in a row, and the only thing that will stop the trend is his hard-learned willingness to defer to O'Neal. Bryant and O'Neal found out last spring that even they could use a little help--from each other and their teammates. PG Derek Fisher's return after 60 games with a foot injury didn't just happen to coincide with the start of a 36-game stretch in which the Lakers won 30 times. The smart, steady guard provided leadership and surprising clutch shooting but is out until at least late November with another foot injury.

Miscast: So far, PF Samaki Walker is unconvincing in the role of Horace Grant. Walker isn't having a strong exhibition season, his problems attributed to new-team jitters and triangle-offense confusion. It hasn't helped that Walker practiced at center for much of training camp while O'Neal's foot healed. The only doubt about Walker had been whether he is tough enough to guard the West's strong power forwards the way Grant did. Walker's slow start has coach Phil Jackson thinking about starting super-sub Robert Horry. --Kevin Modesti PF samaki walker Says playing with Shaq will improve his game. If it doesn't, Robert Horry will get big minutes.

SF Rick fox Benched last November, adaptable Fox turned out to be one guy not to worry about.

C shaquille o'neal The Big Quixote? Tilted at Bryant last season, worries about new NBA rules these days.

SG kobe bryant He'll need to average 33 points to match his typical season-to-season improvement.

PG lindsey hunter When Phil Jackson came to L.A., he never imagined saying, "Hurry back, Derek Fisher.


Shaq
So you're sitting with NBA commissioner David Stern in his office in New York--actually, he is sitting and you're standing, pacing in front of his desk--feverishly pitching ideas at basketball's overlord. He is conservative in a navy suit and red tie, but you are West Coast all the way, teal silk shirt remaining fashionably untucked over khaki pants, hair slick, sunglasses in place despite the indoors-ness of this meeting. "Dave, babe, picture it: We've got Kobe and Phil in black-and-white ... the propellers are running in the background, it's getting time to leave. Very dramatic. Kobe's got to go back to Shaq, and Phil knows it. But hey, they'll always have Paris, right Dave-o? Phil puts his hand under Kobe's chin and says, 'Kobe, I'm no good at being noble, but it doesn't take much to see that the problems of three little people don't amount to a hill of beans in this crazy world. Someday you'll understand that. Now, now. Here's looking at you, kid.' Whaddya think, Dave-o? I call it, Shaqablanca."

Dave-o's not getting it. But you're just getting started.


"OK, how about this, Dave-a-reno ... We've got Shaq on a horse with Phil dressed in an antebellum gown in front of an old Southern mansion. Phil is distraught watching Shaq prepare to leave. Phil says: 'Shaq, if you go, where shall I go? What shall I do?' Shaq turns and says to Phil with a sneer, 'Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.' That's gold, Dave-a-reno, pure gold! Gone with the Shaq! we'll call it."

Dave-a-reno looks at his watch. He's playing hardball here. Your voice goes up in pitch. You're getting nervous.

"You're a tough egg, Dave-a-doodle-doo. All right, I call this one, Citizen Kobe ..."

Dave-a-doodle-doo reaches for the phone and calmly calls security. This is not good. You are desperate.

"No, no, Davey-boy, we can work something out here. How about Shaq-Hur.

Think of the chariot race! One Flew over the Staples Center? How about this, Davey-boy, you've seen 91/2 Weeks? Well, instead of Mickey Rourke we have Shaq, and instead of Kim Basinger, we have Kobe ... it'll cover the whole season, we'll call it 251/2 Weeks ..."

Davey-boy waves a hand, imploring you not to complete that thought as security officers clutch you by the shoulder. "Don't you get it, Dave?" you shout as you are dragged out. "This is the NBA! This league is an L.A. league now! It's all gone Hollywood, man! Hollywood!"

You probably could have picked a better way to demonstrate it to the commissioner, but certainly, you are right. The NBA is going Hollywood this season, with a replay of the league's late-1980s Showtime days, where the biggest star, Michael Jordan, plays for a team with no chance at The Finals, where a cast of supporting stars around the league has created its own intriguing storylines and where Team Hollywood itself, the Lakers, are two-time defending champs and a cinch to repeat.

In terms of depth, plot and characters, this figures to be the NBA's most compelling script since Jordan's retirement three years ago. So get yourself a tub of popcorn, a box of Goobers and a 48-ounce soda--just make certain Derrick Coleman is not sitting next to you. We're about to dim the lights and get this film rolling. Start with the Lakers, who graciously played a dual role last season: They happened to be both the league's best team and the league's most dramatic team, with dueling soap operas running throughout the season. Kobe Bryant starred in The Young and the Restless as the sprightly star who went too far in his own direction, and Shaquille O'Neal played the lead in The Bold and the Beautiful (well, maybe just The Bold), as the brute who sought to keep his team in line with enigmatic declarations about big dogs and throwing bones. By season's end, of course, everything was melded neatly into one, happy sitcom--call it, The Bold, the Young, the Restless and the Beautiful--but this season, the Lakers start over. It already appears the Lakers will get off to as rocky a start this year as they did last year. A few months ago, O'Neal promised to show up for training camp in tip-top shape, under 300 pounds. Instead, after a summer of what he calls, "good living," O'Neal weighed in near 340. He had surgery more than a month ago on his pinky toe, which has left him in a place very familiar to Hollywood types: rehab. The toe caused O'Neal to miss the beginning of training camp, and with point guard Derek Fisher out until at least late November after surgery to repair a stress fracture in his right foot, the Lakers were forced to play some preseason games with a rag-tag lineup: new addition Samaki Walker at center, Robert Horry and Rick Fox at the forwards, Bryant at shooting guard and another new addition, Mitch Richmond or Lindsey Hunter, at the point.

When O'Neal does come back, there will be some issues to square away. Issue No. 1 is that little Shaq vs. Kobe distraction, which seemed to be laid to rest when the Lakers closed the regular season with 10 straight wins and went 15-1 in the playoffs. Could it pop up again in the first half of this season? "God, I hope not," says Fox, who knows a thing or two about Hollywood, having appeared in HBO's Oz and seven feature films.

Fox often is seen riding the stationary bike in the Lakers' practice facility, poring over scripts and practicing lines. "But we're from Hollywood, we know about scripts. It would be boring if we went out and beat up on everyone all year."

Issue No. 2 is the league's new rules, which eliminate illegal defenses, meaning opponents can pile as many available bodies on O'Neal as they please.

O'Neal considers this possibility and frets at the possible carnage he will face. "I think it is a stupid, idiotic rule," he says.

But O'Neal is overreacting. Let's face it, teams have been using illegal rotations on him throughout his career, to no avail. Opponents could defend O'Neal with the 30-foot "H" in the "Hollywood" sign, and it wouldn't do much good.

"Even now, when he goes against illegal defenses and double-teams, Shaq still scores 30 per game," Cavaliers center Zydrunas Ilgauskas says.

In fact, this could be the best season of O'Neal's career, despite the rules. And when he is playing at the near-flawless level he achieved during the postseason, the Lakers are impossible to beat. His scoring (30.4 points per game), rebounding (15.4) and defense (2.4 blocks) were obvious in the playoffs. But he has become the best passing big man in the game, setting up his shooters with optimal space and time--an important aspect of the Lakers' triangle offense. If this were hockey or soccer, O'Neal would have more assists, because in the ideal triangle offense, the center's pass sets up another pass, which leads to an open shot. It's something O'Neal still is improving at.

"When we throw the ball in to him now, the team is going to run off and double-team," Lakers assistant Jim Cleamons says. "He has a very good idea of where the double-team is coming from and delivering the basketball. Now, he is doing a better job, getting the ball there with a crisper pass, which now really buries the defense and forces teams to rotate quickly, and that opens the second shooter out. That is a learning process. He is a much wiser basketball player, and it has an effect up and down."

When it comes to basketball wisdom, though, no one in the league can match wits with Michael Jordan, who, as the Wizards' president of basketball operations, made perhaps the best offseason signing in the NBA: He signed Michael Jordan as a free agent. We hear negotiations went pretty smoothly. Jordan is 38 and coming off a three-year layoff, so the impact he will have on the beggarly Wizards, a team that has been to the playoffs once in the past 13 years, is debatable. Washington will be fortunate to reach .500. What impact he is having on the league's star power is not debatable, though.

Where the league had been nursing along its burgeoning stars, Jordan is an instant supernova. He probably won't play in front of an unsold seat this season. The Wizards have set a team record for season-ticket sales, and Washington's road games are the hottest-selling tickets at NBA arenas. The NBA's television networks, NBC and TNT, already have begun to scrap their original broadcast plans, which included exactly zero Wizards games, to get Jordan on the air. All this for a team that was 19-63 last season. Talk about star power.

"I am not asking the league to market me in any way," Jordan says. "I'm not asking them to put me on TV. I would rather they market the young guys."

Of course, the NBA has tried to market the young guys, but with scattershot success. Though some bemoan Jordan's return as a hindrance to the league's ability to develop new stars, he actually will have an opposite effect. Casual fans might tune into a Wizards-Magic game, and while watching Jordan surely will take notice of that Tracy McGrady kid.

"It's good to have people talking about basketball again," Hornets general manager Jeff Bower says. "Everyone's excited, and I think you'll see people excited about Jordan, who start to get excited about some of the other guys in the league not everyone knows about."

Jordan sees it the same way. "A lot of people were very nervous about me stopping the growth of the NBA because of my participation," he says. "I'm here to aid, to help."

Of course, the league's new stars might not need Jordan's help. Consider last year's top 10 scoring list--half the players on the list had never finished in the top 10 before. This largely is thanks to the third year of development by the Class of 1998, which included Antawn Jamison, Vince Carter and Paul Pierce--and the fourth year for the Class of 1997's McGrady, who did not get much playing time as a rookie. Jordan will be seeing most of these guys in one-on-one situations because the bulk of the league's youthful talent is on the wings, as Jordan is. That creates even juicier plots when the Wizards play McGrady and the Magic or Carter and the Raptors.

"Understand something," says Pistons president Joe Dumars, a contemporary of Jordan's. "In the last three years while he was gone, all those young guys--Allen Iverson, Ray Allen, Kobe Bryant, Jerry Stackhouse, Tracy McGrady, Vince Carter--those guys have improved. From that standpoint, Michael is going to find this a different league."

Much different. Remember, when Jordan left the NBA three years ago, the only reliable thing about the Lakers was their postseason self-destruction.

Now, Hollywood's team rolls through postseasons, causing opponents to degenerate into some cheap knockoff of 12 Angry Men (how about that one, Dave-a-doodle-doo?). The current bunch of Lakers has made so much progress, it can survey the NBA landscape and issue stark challenges.

"Keep in mind," O'Neal says, "everyone has to come through L.A. Somebody has to beat us." TSN

E-mail staff writer Sean Deveney at sdeveney@sportingnews.com. Can't miss subplots

No names will appear in bigger letters on the NBA's marquee this season than those of Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal and Kobe Bryant. But there are plenty of other subplots around the league, and those stories shouldn't be overlooked. In an attempt to drum up excitement, we turned to the able pens of the folks who write the excitable blurbs that appear all over movie ads. Here's what they came up with:

"I laughed, I cried, I lost my hair!" Well, that's just what happens when you're the coach of the Trail Blazers. You laugh when you size up the talent on your roster, you cry when you watch Rasheed Wallace get ejected. Careful follicle counts show that Mike Dunleavy, fired after Portland's first-round playoff meltdown against the Lakers, actually got balder in his tenure in Portland. Enjoy your barbershop conversations while you can, Mo Cheeks.

"A rollicking, roller coaster thrill ride!" There is no team more fun to watch than the Kings. They led the league in scoring again last season, averaging 101.7 points, and have learned to include defense in their up-tempo style. Plus, in one game last year, Vlade Divac got blood on his uniform and had to remove his shirt in front of his home crowd. What a thrill.

"If you see only one NBA game this year, make it this one!" San Antonio fans can be downright cruel--even Shaquille O'Neal gave a hearty chuckle to some of the brutally derisive poster boards the locals took to the Alamodome during the Western Conference final--and the Spurs are feeling a bit jilted by the defection of shooting guard Derek Anderson, who forced a trade to Portland after negotiations with the Spurs hit a snag. The Blazers visit the Spurs December 19. Expect some harsh signage.

"A mystery packed with first-rate suspense!" For all the losses the Heat incurred this summer, its fate still hangs on something it has no control over--the health of center Alonzo Mourning. He missed most of last season with a kidney disease but made a stunning comeback in time for the playoffs. He since has acknowledged he tried to return too soon and was fatigued during the Heat's first-round playoff loss to the Hornets. But what no one knows, not even Mourning, is whether he will react any differently after a complete summer of rest.

"A complete and utter bomb! A tour-de-farce!" That might not generate much excitement, but how else can you describe the new look of the Bulls and Grizzlies? --S.D. Jordan has range

Americans are easily bored. Remember, there was a time when Quentin Tarantino movies were considered edgy and meaningful, when the phrase 'Yahoo Serious' made sense and when "starring Corey Haim" meant box-office riches. That has changed.

In the realm of stardom, reinvention is crucial. You don't want to be tomorrow who you were yesterday. Imagine if Tom Hanks had limited himself to slapstick comedy--he probably still would be dressing like a woman and sharing an apartment with Peter Scolari.

For the NBA's biggest star, reinvention is similarly crucial. There was a time when Michael Jordan was defined by protruding-tongued dunks, surreal bedroom-wall photographs and Mars Blackmon. But judging Jordan's career on that phase would be like sizing up Hanks based on The Money Pit and Bachelor Party.

Jordan changed his genre. He cut down on the acrobatics and became a better defender, a better mid-range shooter and a much better player. He won six championships in his reinvented role.

Now Jordan is reinventing his role again with the young and hapless Wizards, this time as an on-the-floor-coach, a small forward who moonlights at the point, a basketball wiseman and, far removed from his days as a master acrobat, a servant to the whims of his aging body.

Wizards coach Doug Collins will squeeze whatever usefulness he can out of Jordan. That means occasionally playing Jordan at point guard to get him on the floor with Washington's two other scorers, Courtney Alexander and Richard Hamilton. It means allowing Jordan to work the post. It means resting him. It means sitting back while Jordan barks instructions from a courtside seat.

"There are other things he is going to do for us besides just score," Collins says.

There also are other notable reinventions taking place around the league, with players and teams changing slightly, trying to remain one step ahead of that fatal American ennui:

1. Grant Hill. He must first reinvent himself as a man with a healthy ankle. If he does that, he also must be willing to be a playmaker, deferring to Tracy McGrady for scoring.

2. Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Mike Bibby. They put up good numbers while they were shielded from public view by the obscurity of Vancouver. Now, Bibby joins a sure playoff team in Sacramento and must adjust to a faster tempo. Abdur-Rahim joins the East's most improved team and must take on the role of a leader in Atlanta.

3. The Clippers. The trade that brought in Elton Brand has helped transform Los Angeles' other team into a potential playoff group.

4. Pat Riley. He had to reinvent the Heat as a younger team with much less talent. Coaching a roster full of guys in their mid-20s never has been a role Riley has sought. --S.D.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:53 pm
by sp6r=underrated
SI Preview

Iverson and 76ers

Given the coarse rap lyrics he's been known to compose, it might seem that Allen Iverson would be the last person to complain about offensive language. There is at least one word, however, that Iverson, the Philadelphia 76ers' prolific point producer, considers indisputably obscene. He heard it as he was walking down a corridor in the Staples Center in June, and for a moment it no longer mattered to him that the Sixers had upset the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 1 of the NBA Finals. Someone suggested that only one type of defense had any chance of containing him, then made the mistake of uttering its name. Iverson turned at the sound of the Z word, the fire in his eyes as bright as the diamonds in his ears. "Zone" he said. "Man, why did you have to go and bring that up? You trying to mess with my good mood? I don't want to hear that word until next year."

Next year is here, and Iverson won't be able to avoid the word, or the defense, any longer. From the moment the NBA's Board of Governors announced last April that the illegal-defense rules would be dropped beginning this season, the league's elite scorers have been girding to face the kind of exotic defensive strategies they haven't seen since they were big men on campus. Teams will be able to use any defense they choose, the only restriction being that a defender may not stand in the lane for more than three seconds unless he is closely guarding another player. "The NBA is for men, and a grown man doesn't need to play zone," says Shaquille O'Neal. "Why do you think they call it man-to-man? If you can't play it, you shouldn't be here."

It's possible that zone defenses won't be as instantly popular around the league as tattoos and luxury boxes, which would be welcome news to Iverson, O'Neal and other one-on-one threats like Kobe Bryant, Vince Carter, Tim Duncan, Steve Francis and Tracy McGrady. "We are not going to be a zone team," says Dallas Mavericks coach Don Nelson, the kind of unorthodox strategist who might be expected to take advantage of any new options. "Zones make teams lazy. We like aggressive man-to-man." The San Antonio Spurs, with 7-footers Tim Duncan and David Robinson to station on either side of the lane, would seem to be another zone-prone team, but coach Gregg Popovich says he did not spend "one single second" devising such a defense during the off-season. "What we will do," adds Popovich, "is use zones in special situations, specifically, out-of-bounds plays and maybe with limited time on the shot clock."

Still, the elite players are sure to see more creative defenses thrown at them at least occasionally, and Iverson, the reigning scoring champion, seems a particularly inviting target. His skill at breaking down a defender off the dribble and the quick release on his jump shot make him arguably the toughest perimeter player in the league to handle one-on-one. Because Philadelphia doesn't have another scoring threat who's nearly as dangerous as Iverson, opponents will be likely to dare the other Sixers to beat them from outside.

Of course, Iverson and the Sixers have seen de facto zones before. Under the old rules opponents often sent a second defender to double-team him as soon as he received the ball in the frontcourt, and the other three defenders would rotate to cover Iverson's four teammates in what was essentially a matchup zone (diagram below). To make sure the Sixer left open was the one who would be the most difficult to pass to, the second defender on Iverson usually came from the weak side. By the time that player arrived, though, Iverson had frequently made his move to the basket or released his jumper. In fact, having a player rushing at him often worked to Iverson's advantage, because a head fake or crossover dribble was all he needed to flash to the hoop before the defender could change direction.

Now defenses won't have to do as much running and rotating. They can station a defender, most likely their power forward or center—perhaps both—on whichever side the 6-foot Iverson sets up. The defense essentially gives him two options: try to beat two or three defenders, or pass the ball. "Now he won't have the alleys to split you," says Seattle SuperSonics assistant Dwane Casey. "The big man can be stationary and be there waiting for him."

Against man-to-man defenses, the Sixers like to set up a series of screens for Iverson, a gantlet his defender must negotiate to keep up with him (diagram, page 108). Against a basic zone, those screens aren't nearly as effective, because no individual defender has to fight his way through them all. Responsibility for Iverson will simply pass from one defender to another as he moves around the court. Even the best zone has seams, however, and the danger for any coach who deploys it is that a scorer as quick and clever as Iverson will find those openings. "Zones may work for a possession or two," says Mavericks assistant coach Sidney Moncrief, "but the more they see them, the more great players will exploit them by finding the holes."

When he can't find those cracks, Iverson will have to rely on his outside shot, which he tried particularly hard to improve during the off-season, at least until he had surgery on his right elbow in September. (He's expected to be healthy by the start of the season.) Although zones often leave a spot-up shooter unguarded, that player will rarely be Iverson. With defenses focused on him, he's more likely to be the one to dish to that open shooter. "He'll have to burn people sometimes with his passes to keep them honest," says Casey.

In a sense the other Sixers may find themselves facing zones more than Iverson does. Philadelphia coach Larry Brown expects to see the occasional combination defense in which a team tracks Iverson with multiple defenders and plays zone against his teammates. Being double-teamed is nothing new for Iverson or any other top scorer in the league. The difference is that under the old rules, a player couldn't be double-teamed until he had the ball. Now, defenders can gang up on Iverson whenever and wherever they wish, making it much tougher for him to get his hands on the ball. "Teams can do that, but if the Sixers have any shooters at all, one of the other guys will kill you," Casey says. "What teams will do is shade him with two guys. The days of Iverson's getting 40 or 50—he'll have to expend a lot more energy to do that."

In other words, Philadelphia's success against the zone will depend in part on how unselfish Iverson is willing to be. Beating a double team and then penetrating against a three-man front that's sagging to protect the middle will be far more difficult than distributing the ball to an open teammate. "I won't have any trouble giving the ball up," he says. "If I need to be a decoy sometimes, then I'll be a decoy. My teammates can make shots."



In an attempt to make sure that's true, the Sixers acquired 6'7" forward Matt Harpring, along with forwards Robert (Tractor) Traylor and Cedric Henderson, from the Cavaliers during the off-season for forwards Tyrone Hill and Jumaine Jones. Philadelphia essentially replaced Hill, a solid rebounder and defender, with the offensive-minded Harpring, who is more likely to make defenses, zone or not, pay for being preoccupied with Iverson.

On the other hand Brown hasn't made drastic strategic changes to prepare Iverson to face zones. He is still preaching ball movement and player movement, and encouraging Iverson to trust his teammates to make the open shots that will inevitably come. Since Brown and Iverson rarely agree on anything (at least initially), it's no surprise that the coach is far more sanguine about the changes than his star. "I don't see it as a problem," says Brown. "It will help the fans because nobody in the stands really understood the illegal-defense rules anyway, and it will make it easier on the referees because they won't have so much to look for."

Another factor that could work to the Sixers' advantage is that defenders in a zone often don't rebound well, because they aren't always in position to box out their opponents when the shot goes up. With hardworking interior players like center Dikembe Mutombo and forward George Lynch, Philadelphia—a strong offensive rebounding team that often cashes in on Iverson's misses—could wind up with more than its share of second and third shots if teams play zone for long stretches.

"Triple-team Allen if you want," Brown says. "You'll have to give something up if you do that. Everything's a calculated risk. Do it and you'll open up more opportunities for other people, which in turn will make Allen more dangerous."

How Iverson fares against the new schemes designed to stop him will be as clear an indicator as any of whether the rules changes are having their desired effect. If teams playing zone repeatedly cut off his forays to the basket and turn him into little more than a passer and jump shooter, the rules committee that recommended the changes may reassess them at season's end. If, however, the specter of having to face a zone encourages teams to push the ball up the floor before defenses can set up, creating more of an open-court game, even Iverson and most of his fellow stars will be pleased.

Iverson hopes that the pace of the game will be even more to his liking, but he doesn't really expect it to happen. "I think it's going to take a lot of creativity from the game," he says. "I'm going to get into the lane, and four, five guys are going to be sitting there waiting for me. The game will turn into a bunch of guys shooting jump shots. You can't tell me that's what the fans want to see."

Still, the game could turn into something more fascinating than that. If the endlessly inventive Iverson has to find new ways to attack the kitchen-sink defenses that will be thrown at him, it will be well worth watching. The fans—and Iverson—may find that the sturdier the shackles, the more impressive the escape.

76ers

In entertainment news from the City of Brotherly Love, Allen Iverson—a.k.a. Jewelz, a.k.a. the Answer, a.k.a. the Reigning MVP—has decided to scrap the rap CD that a year ago made him the NBA player least likely to keynote a NOW convention. "All the negativity surrounding it swayed me," says Iverson, who drew massive criticism when the lyrics to one song, 40 Bars, were released in October 2000. Iverson's decision not to put out Misunderstood must have been music to the ears of 76ers teammates and executives eager to maintain the goodwill that grew throughout 2000-01, when the gritty team battled its way to the Finals.

Or maybe it wasn't. The 76ers love—nay, need—to play the we-don't-get-no-respect card. That is particularly true of Jewelz (Iverson's rap name), that gem of an undersized shooting guard who seems to be most comfortable when he's knee-deep in hot water. Actually, he's elbow-deep right now. At the end of each of the last two seasons Iverson has ignored the advice of team physician Jack McPhilemy to have surgery on his right elbow, the one primarily in use when he jacked up a league-high 25.5 shots per game in 2000-01. Iverson finally succumbed to the pain and had the bone chips cleaned out, but not until the last week in September. He was expected to miss at least the first week of the season. "I think Allen planned it that way to miss camp," says coach Larry Brown with a smile. Well, it seemed like a smile.

Iverson's injury is not the only reason that, as guard Aaron McKie says, "it's gonna take some time for the jellin'." The league's top sixth man last season, McKie did not have surgery on his right shoulder until the same day Iverson went under the knife, and he's not likely to return until two weeks into the season. On Oct. 16 dependable point guard and defensive stopper Eric Snow broke his left thumb and will miss up to three months. Forward George Lynch sat out much of the preseason because of soreness in his surgically repaired left foot, while injuries also slowed frontcourt banger Matt Geiger and swingman Matt Harpring, who was acquired from the Cavaliers for Tyrone Hill in a three-way trade. Last year, it is important to recall, the Sixers jump-started their Eastern Conference title run by winning their first 10 games. So by all means: Bring on the jell!

Searching for bright spots, Brown notes that the injuries will enable center Dikembe Mutombo to become a bigger part of the offense. Mutombo's reliable play against Shaquille O'Neal in the Finals notwithstanding, the coach's comment is not unlike standing at the site of a multicar pileup and concluding that the tow-truck drivers will get some great experience. There are also questions about Brown's staying power. Last season he missed two games because of exhaustion and came close—"real close," he says—to walking away at the end of the season. Will the twin burdens of defending the conference title and maintaining a solid professional relationship with his star player weigh heavily on one of the most intense (and one of the best) coaches in hoops history?

Perhaps; perhaps not. Former team president Pat Croce, who left the Sixers after failing to get control of Spectacor, the parent company that owns the franchise, got far too much credit for patching up last season's Iverson-Brown contretemps. "The only argument I ever had with Pat was over Allen," says Brown. "I thought he was interfering, and he was. Allen and I worked it out ourselves." Iverson agrees with that assessment.

What else do the Sixers have going for them? Harpring brings outside shooting and solid defense, and 5'11" Speedy Claxton (who is considered a rookie after missing last season with a torn left ACL) brings backcourt depth and plenty of the thing he's named for. Robert (Tractor) Traylor should be a nice frontcourt supplement to Geiger, whose popularity in Philadelphia fluctuates according to how often his jump shot is falling, and to Lynch, who is always popular even though his jump shot rarely falls. Iverson is too good on offense, Mutombo is too good on defense, and Brown is too good on the bench (provided he stays there) for this team to take a complete header.

It took most of last season for fans to believe that Philadelphia was, like the original tide of Iverson's CD, Non-Fiction. Considering their litany of woes and the revitalized Eastern Conference, the Sixers' task is even tougher this season.


Lakers

About a week into training camp, Samaki Walker had to sit down and extract his sneaker from his mouth. "I take back my words on the triangle's being easy to learn," he said, wearing a rueful smile. Walker had spent the first few days playing center as Shaquille O'Neal recovered from off-season surgery on his left pinkie toe, but as soon as Walker moved to forward—where he will likely spend most of this season—the intricacies of the offense invented by Lakers assistant Tex Winter (and validated over the years by head coach Phil Jackson) became evident. Then again, Walker isn't used to playing with the Big Bailout, who only returned to the lineup last week. "Shot clock running down, things not going well, dump it into Shaq," says Walker. "That's a pretty good play in any offense. And it's going to be a pretty good play for a long time."

So we get to the essence of these Lakers. Yes, they're well coached, and yes, they have an offensive system that has produced the NBA champion in eight of the last 11 seasons. But mostly what they have is the game's most dominant force, and if that's not enough, they also have Kobe Bryant, who appears ready to become the best player in the game under seven feet and 330 pounds. Yes, it's conceivable that by January, Bryant and O'Neal will be feuding again—quietly or on Page One of the Los Angeles Times—about whose team this really is. (It's Shaq's team, except when double-teaming and poor foul-shooting dictate that it become Kobe's team.) Only after that issue was resolved last season did LA. begin kicking butt and taking names. However, Bryant, now 23, seems much more mature, comfortable and poised, not to mention supremely talented in every phase of the game. "When things go wrong, he's one of the guys to speak up," says Walker, who signed a free-agent contract in the off-season, "and guys listen."

Bryant has become such a leader that he even offered tonsorial advice to O'Neal, who had grown a modest Afro and talked about going with braids. "I told him shaved was his look," says Bryant. "Got to get back to being the Diesel." Sure enough, Shaq sheared it all.

Still, there is a big question as Jackson pursues his third three-peat: Even after making their usual batch of perspicacious moves (adding Walker and guards Mitch Richmond and Lindsey Hunter), did the Lakers suffer a net decline when they chose not to re-sign Horace Grant and Ron Harper? There is a school of thought that all championship teams must tweak their roster the following season to juice things up a bit. Losing two valuable veterans, however, is more than tweaking. "We got excellent players to replace Horace and Harp," says Rick Fox, "but we lose nine rings between them. It's not a question of replacing their leadership. It's a question of replacing their knowledge and experience, knowing what to do in May and June when the margin of error gets small."

Considering the injuries to O'Neal and point guard Derek Fisher (who is not expected to return until mid-November after his second surgery on his right foot) and the adjustment problems of working Richmond, Hunter and Walker into the rotation, the Lakers may start slowly. But that's not unfamiliar territory—last Dec. 13 they were 15-9. "Losing early and showing you can recover is not something you adopt as a goal," says Fox, laughing. "We'd like to get our game together by the 50-game mark." The Lakers' 56-26 record last season represented the lowest win total of any of Jackson's previous seven championship seasons. "The ideal way to win a championship is step-by-step," says Jackson. "You're building, always building. Last year we never took any shortcuts, although we got there eventually. We'd like it not to be as tough this year."


Kings

Mike Bibby, the kings' new point guard, hates germs almost as much as turnovers. In restaurants he has been known to head immediately for the men's room to scrub up after shaking hands with well-wishers or after using a stranger's pen to sign an autograph. While that seems like slightly compulsive behavior, such a stickler for cleanliness might be what Sacramento needs, now that the team has washed its hands of the exciting but unpredictable Jason Williams. After three seasons with Williams at the helm the Kings are counting on Bibby to tidy up their attack and help them make their most serious run at a championship ever.

"Everybody's looking forward to playing with him," says center Vlade Divac. "Jason could do some spectacular things, but obviously he also made mistakes by taking a lot of chances. This team has so much talent that all we need is someone to take care of the ball and be consistent. Bibby has shown he can do that."

The draft-day trade that brought Bibby and guard Brent Price from the Grizzlies for Williams and swingman Nick Anderson is a steal for Sacramento. Bibby is a more consistent shooter than Williams (45.4% to 40.7% last season), and his average of 8.4 assists ranked fourth in the league. In fact the only question about Bibby, 23, is whether his unadorned style will mesh with Sacramento's flash-and-dash offense. He has no doubts on that score. "I like to push the ball as much as anybody else," Bibby says. "Running with these guys will not be a problem."

Although Bibby's primary running mate, forward Chris Webber, will likely miss the first two weeks with a sprained left ankle, at least he's in the fold after signing a seven-year, $l23-million contract. (The Kings also re-upped shooting guard and defensive stopper Doug Christie with a seven-year, $48-million deal.) "The only team that's better than us is the Lakers," Webber says, and it's hard to argue with him. Divac, who's never exactly been a conditioning fanatic, showed up at training camp in surprisingly good shape after a summer of running and weightlifting. Small forward Peja Stojakovic, 24, has blossomed into a dangerous scorer and could earn the All-Star spot he barely missed a year ago. The only King improving at a faster rate than Stojakovic may be Hedo Turkoglu, a 6'8" swingman who will get significant minutes at all three perimeter positions. Defensive-minded point guard Bobby Jackson and frontcourt banger Scot Pollard fill out an eight-man rotation that's as solid as any in the league.

Webber's flirtations with other teams during his free agency were traumatic for the Kings, but the team may ultimately benefit: He now has an added incentive to prove wrong those he feels snubbed him. "[Rockets guard] Steve Francis told me they thought I was cocky," Webber told The Sacramento Bee, referring to members of Houston's front office, "and I'm going to try to kill them every year for that." He was also offended by how he believes the Magic courted Raptors center Antonio Davis more seriously than Orlando did him.

While it doesn't exactly sound as if staying put was Webber's first choice, Sacramento fans will forgive him that if he can take the Kings farther than the conference semifinals, where they were swept by the Lakers last season. The Kings did beat the Suns in the opening round for their first playoff series win since 1981, which makes them a dynasty compared to what Bibby endured in his three years with the Grizzlies, who went 53-161 in that stretch. "I don't even know what the playoffs feel like," he says.

This year, he's likely to find out what the conference finals feel like, and if Webber maintains a healthy anger throughout the playoffs, the Kings may be in for an even better feeling.



Nets

Jason Kidd has spent his seven-year NBA career in the Western Conference. In his first days as a Net he struggled to get out of bed at 7 o'clock because his body pleaded that it was still 4 a.m. This left-leaning orientation might explain why the San Francisco-born Kidd looks west in describing where he hopes to take his new team, which has long been overshadowed by its eastern neighbor, the Knicks. "We want to be like the Clippers," Kidd says. "It used to be you just mentioned one team in L.A., but now you have to mention two. The Clippers aren't going to sneak up on anyone. People know they're fighting for that seventh or eighth playoff spot. We want to follow in that same category."

Kidd should think twice about mentioning that motivation to a perennially skeptical Gotham media, which might be startled by the notion that any team should intentionally emulate the Clippers. Still, that doesn't make Kidd's comparison any less apt. Like the Clippers, the Nets have a long and sordid history of misfortune, from drug problems ( Micheal Ray Richardson) to car accidents ( Drazen Petrovic) to most notably an injury toll that defies rational explanation. Two starters ( Keith Van Horn and Kenyon Martin) broke legs last season to uphold a tradition of lower-limb travails started by Sam Bowie and perfected by Jayson Williams.

Yet like the Clippers, New Jersey has reason to believe that it has made the improvements needed to succeed. The big change is Kidd, a four-time All-Star point guard whom the Nets acquired from the Suns in June in a deal that sent Stephon Marbury, the Brooklyn-born point guard New Jersey had once hoped to build around, to Phoenix. While Marbury, is an explosive scorer, the 28-year-old Kidd is a pass-first type with the fourth-best assist average (9.4) in NBA history. Second-year coach Byron Scott informed Kidd that he would be the Nets' captain within minutes after Kidd arrived in town for training camp. That merely formalized New Jersey's expectation that Kidd will be its leader. "He's a great orchestrator on the floor," Scott says. "He pushes the ball when he needs to, he slows it down when he needs to. I expect him to do the same things he's done his whole career."

For a point guard, that means getting to know one's teammates, particularly those who can put the ball in the basket. Van Horn says that what most impressed him was that Kidd called each player by his first name at the first Nets practice he attended. That's no mean feat on this team, which will suit up just four players who took the court for New Jersey a year ago. That number includes Van Horn and Martin, two athletic forwards whose games should benefit most from Kidd's presence. Van Horn missed the first 32 games last season with a broken left fibula, and Martin's solid rookie season was ended by a fractured right fibula with 11 games remaining, but both arrived in camp healthy. Kerry Kitties returns from a longer absence: He missed all of last season after a fourth operation on his right knee. Kittles moved well while playing for the Nets' summer league team, and New Jersey hopes he can be close to the player who averaged 17.2 points in 1997-98.

Still, the Nets' most significant rehabilitation may be chemical rather than physical. While no one is publicly pointing a finger at Marbury, New Jersey's players clearly did not coexist well last year. "We didn't have the right mix," Scott says. "It's hard to work with people you don't enjoy being with." Says Van Horn, "I feel like I'm on a whole new team. Jason's very professional. He brings a great attitude, which was needed on this team. We're much more competitive, much more serious, much more focused than in years past."

Of course, optimism always abounds in October. Though he's new to the Nets, Kidd has been around long enough to know that the real trials await as surely as winter in the Northeast. "We have the talent to make some noise," Kidd says. "We're going to surprise some teams early on, but the good teams have to show up in January and February, when nobody's surprising anybody. That will be the real test for us."

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 4:58 pm
by semi-sentient
Final rankings:

1. Shaquille O'Neal
2. Tim Duncan
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Dirk Nowitzki

Edit: Damn, an early flip-flop. Revisiting some of those game logs just reminds me how much Shaq meant to the team and how unstoppable he was. Duncan was dominant as well, but not AS dominant as Shaq. Also, Shaq missing games didn't hurt the team THAT much, so I might have been blowing that out of proportion and not looking at the overall picture. They still finished with a higher seed than the Spurs and at the end of the day prevented them from advancing.

Edit: Well, I'm not really feeling J-Kidd at the moment, so I'm gonna give Dirk a little love and put him at #5.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:03 pm
by JordansBulls
Initially here is how I would rank them.

1. Shaq (Finished 3rd in MVP voting) - Led the Playoffs in Win Shares and was 2nd in PER in the playoffs. Was 1st in PER in the season
2. Duncan (finished 1st in MVP voting) - Led the Playoffs in PER and finished 1st in season Win Shares and 2nd in playoff PER)
3. Jason Kidd (finished 2nd in MVP voting) - Led his team to the finals
4. Kobe Bryant - Finsihed 2nd on his team in PER and WS in the season and playofs and top 5 in MVP voting.
5. Dirk Nowitizki - 4th in playoff ppg, 4th in playoff PER. Finished 3rd in season Win Shares


HM: Chris Webber, Tracy Mcgrady, Kevin Garnett, Michael Jordan, Paul Pierce

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:10 pm
by sp6r=underrated
To me, the real point of this thread is to initiate discussion. So I'll ask some general questions for the board on two players teams from this season:

1. How do people feel about the Nets turnaround and Jason Kidd's season? The Nets didn't come into the season with large expectations.

2. What about the Kings and Webber? Were they just a loaded team that didn't have a true superstar or was C-Webb really one of the elite this year?

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:42 pm
by Gongxi
From this point on, this is my 'vote', but it's much more in flux than it has been previously. If I change it, I'll say so and come back and edit this thread. But this is what I have going right now:

Just for posterity's sake, I'm going to say that throughout this thing I'm going mostly by on-court production, with games in December mattering as much as games in March, and games in the playoffs meaning only about 50% more than games in the regular season. Which is to say: if you play 20 playoff games and 82 regular season games, your regular season still accounts for roughly 2/3rds of where I'm placing you. Why? Because a 20 game sample size pales in comparison to 82 or, together, 102 games.

Also, I don't much care about how well your team did. It's basketball, not ping pong- one player can't dictate whether an entire team wins or loses.


Okay guys, this is a cluster **** of a season for me. I'm gonna run down the eight guys that I considered heavily here, by alphabetical order:

Bryant, Kobe- Really tough to judge. He takes more of the mantle of leadership on the Lakers this year and becomes more responsible for the team; he seems to become a better player, yet his play actually dips. I think the reason why he seems to be more important to the Lakers is because Shaq plays less. Because, as far as production goes, Bryant is actually not much better- and probably worse- than the year before. When Shaq is playing, he's the best. But Kobe assumes the role of 1B because Shaq's not there day-in and day-out anymore. 25/6/6 on good but not great (relative to his peers) efficiency. Upped his scoring considerably in the playoffs, but likewise his efficiency dropped precipitously. 51% TS!

Duncan, Tim- 26ppg marks his career high-water mark in scoring. 26/13/4 for 82 games, followed up by 28/14/5 in the playoffs, to include a stupidly high PER of 31.8. Yeah, only 9 games, but still. A defensive anchor without compare this season. Was he better than Shaq when Shaq played? No. But he actually played in more games than Shaq even considering Shaq won a ring that year. And he played 100% of his teams' games. Shaq played in 85%.

Garnett, Kevin- At this point, KG has gotten to where he's gonna get with his scoring, basically. His rebounding is still trending upward and not where peak KG will be. Same with his scoring efficiency. He's getting better taking care of the ball, but he's not where he'll be later as the best player in the game. This is a Garnett that is clearly great, and clearly all-NBA, but if he is in the top 5, it's barely.

Kidd, Jason- Ahhh! Here we have the Nash Effect (PG coming to a team, Marbury leaving, the team winning a lot more games), with a dash of the Ben Wallace Corollary (success making good players seem great, great players to be superstars, superstars to GOATs). The recipe has teamed up for Gongxi Rage (the rage my girlfriend directs at me when she over hears me continuously say “But they're not looking at the player!) in the past. But Kidd avoids that, somehow. Probably because even though he got his 15/10/7 (only 8 triple-doubles for him that year, though, kinda slacking) and played amazing defense, it wasn't even his best year to date. The Swiss Army Knife of PGs, taking the title from Fat Lever.

McGrady, Tracy- 26/8/5. This is the same T-Mac from 2003, but...not as good. Shoots worse (nearly 5% worse from the line!) while scoring less; has a much higher TO%; not as good defensively. In his favor, he's rebounding the ball much better than he will in his peak season and...well, he's still an elite player. Turned it on in his brief playoff appearance: 31/6/6 on 55% TS.

Nowitzki, Dirk- Good season. Respectable season. 5th in PER, but it wasn't particularly special. Not great on defense. 23 and 10 is great, he's 23, yadda yadda. Doesn't do a whole lot for me this year, though, not in such a tightly-contested year.

O'Neal, Shaquille- Let's make this clear: when he played, he was easily the best player in the league. But he missed 15 games. His 27/11/3 on ridiculous percentages is amazing. But can he hold off Duncan with 15% of the year missed? If this is the year that he and Kobe have become 1A and 1B as opposed to 1 and 2 (and I think it is) and Kobe played nearly the whole season, keeping in mind that Shaq was the best in the games he played...what does that say about Kobe's ranking?

Webber, Chris- A lot of Webber's stock comes from the quality of the Kings as a whole- I know lots of people will rank him here because of that- but I don't buy that and I especially don't buy it regarding him: Chris Webber was and is a lot of wonderful things, but gifted leader isn't really one of them. But he could very well be deserving of a top 5 mention without bringing in the Kings success at all. Still one of the most electric big men, passing-wise, I've ever seen.

In the end, it really just comes down to the All-NBA first team, I guess. I'm really unhappy I had to leave three of those guys off, though. They all really deserved it.

1- Tim Duncan
2- Shaquille O'Neal
3- Tracy McGrady
4- Kobe Bryant
5- Jason Kidd

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:43 pm
by semi-sentient
sp6r=underrated wrote:To me, the real point of this thread is to initiate discussion. So I'll ask some general questions for the board on two players teams from this season:

1. How do people feel about the Nets turnaround and Jason Kidd's season? The Nets didn't come into the season with large expectations.


Jason Kidd's season was, IMO, overrated. The Nets did see a 26 game improvement, but injuries were a big part of the reason that they really sucked in 2001. Marbury, Martin, and Van Horn missed a lot of time, whereas in 2002 Kidd, Martin, and Van Horn barely missed any time at all. Kerry Kittles and Todd MacCulloch were also additions to the team, so while I think Kidd over Marbury is a big time upgrade at the PG spot, there were lots of other factors in the Nets improvement.

Looking at JK's individual numbers I have to wonder why he belongs in the top 5 at all. He shot poorly, didn't score much, so his main positives are play-making, defense, and leadership. I'm not sure if that's enough, and I honestly can't say how good of a defender he was at that point.

That, and it's really difficult to give credit to guys like him and Iverson for leading mediocre teams to the top of a very weak conference, at least when compared to what some of the dominant players out West were doing.

sp6r=underrated wrote:2. What about the Kings and Webber? Were they just a loaded team that didn't have a true superstar or was C-Webb really one of the elite this year?


The Kings were a great team and while Webber was the closest thing they had to a superstar, he missed 28 games that season which eliminates him from any kind of top 5 consideration. Or at least it should.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:46 pm
by ItsMillerTime
Off the top of my head, I would go something like

1. Duncan
2. Kobe
3. Shaq
4. Kidd
5. Tmac

HM: Dirk, Payton, C-Webb, Pierce

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:47 pm
by semi-sentient
RE: Duncan (1) vs. Shaq (2)

I think Duncan gets the advantage over Shaq due to playing significantly more games in the RS. This isn't supposed to be a best player in the league award, which Shaq was when fully healthy and giving maximum effort. In fact, I think Kobe has a slight advantage over Shaq as well in the RS for that same reason.

In the playoffs, Shaq was a beast primarily in the NBA Finals, but we shouldn't overlook what Duncan did against the Lakers:

29.0 PTS (.517 TS%), 17.2 REB, 4.6 AST, 1.0 STL, 3.2 BLK, 4.6 TOV

Those are big time numbers, and he was a monster on the defensive end throughout the post-season. The only time Shaq did better than that was in the Finals (and IMO, that's entirely debatable when factoring in defense) where there was a massive advantage in the middle.

I don't know. I think it's tough to put Shaq ahead of Duncan due to regular season games missed, and Duncan was dominating enough in his two playoff series that it's hard to bump him down for not winning a championship. It's not his fault that he didn't have Kobe -- the guy that stepped it up against his team when Shaq was "struggling". ;)

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 5:57 pm
by Gongxi
sp6r=underrated wrote:To me, the real point of this thread is to initiate discussion. So I'll ask some general questions for the board on two players teams from this season:

1. How do people feel about the Nets turnaround and Jason Kidd's season? The Nets didn't come into the season with large expectations.


It's really, really hard not to compare it with Nash. Virtually the same thing happened. I wasn't voting Nash #1 because of it; I'm not voting Kidd #1 because of it, either. That said, I'm higher on Kidd as a player anyway. This is a guy who is very difficult to shut down simply because of the various ways he can hurt you. Every game, he's doing something that as an opposing team you really wish you could stop.

2. What about the Kings and Webber? Were they just a loaded team that didn't have a true superstar or was C-Webb really one of the elite this year?


Agreed with semi-sentient. I do think he's one of the elite, but even if he had played all 82 games, he wasn't getting into that top 5.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:11 pm
by sp6r=underrated
One more semi-random question

1. How do people feel about Pierce and T-Mac this year?

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:17 pm
by Gongxi
Aside from being on the better team, what does Pierce have over McGrady? Pierce didn't even draw a second glance from me.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:29 pm
by Sedale Threatt
semi-sentient wrote:RE: Duncan (1) vs. Shaq (2)

I think Duncan gets the advantage over Shaq due to playing significantly more games in the RS. This isn't supposed to be a best player in the league award, which Shaq was when fully healthy and giving maximum effort. In fact, I think Kobe has a slight advantage over Shaq as well in the RS for that same reason.

In the playoffs, Shaq was a beast primarily in the NBA Finals, but we shouldn't overlook what Duncan did against the Lakers:

29.0 PTS (.517 TS%), 17.2 REB, 4.6 AST, 1.0 STL, 3.2 BLK, 4.6 TOV

Those are big time numbers, and he was a monster on the defensive end throughout the post-season. The only time Shaq did better than that was in the Finals (and IMO, that's entirely debatable when factoring in defense) where there was a massive advantage in the middle.

I don't know. I think it's tough to put Shaq ahead of Duncan due to regular season games missed, and Duncan was dominating enough in his two playoff series that it's hard to bump him down for not winning a championship. It's not his fault that he didn't have Kobe -- the guy that stepped it up against his team when Shaq was "struggling". ;)


I know some people feel a lot differently about this, but do 15 games missed really make THAT much of a difference in the discussion, especially when you're talking about someone as dominant as Shaq?

You're raised some good points, and I'm going to probably start thinking about this more than I thought I would. But a great series against the Lakers, and 15 more regular season games played...I'm not sure if that constitutes enough to surpass Shaq.

Maybe if they'd been going head-up exclusively, it would carry more weight. But I don't think that's enough.

One thing to keep in mind, don't forget that Shaq was pretty dominant against Sacramento as well -- games of 27/18, 28/7 (14 for 18 shooting); 41/17 and 35/13 after L.A. had fallen behind 2-1. So he wasn't just beating up on N.J.'s stable of chumps in the playoffs.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:32 pm
by Baller 24
I'm going with the MVP Tim Duncan as my first pick here. I was feeling Shaq before this project started, but when you look at his RS performance was slightly worst compared to his '03 season, and I think I'd give Duncan the nod as the best player in the league throughout the RS of '02. Playoffs is where Shaq really stepped it up a whole level, he was absolutely dominant, but at the same time I feel Duncan's two-way dominance that season throughout the RS and playoffs were huge, and while he did lose to Shaq's team in the playoffs, I don't necessarily think he had the same caliber of help as Shaq did (Kobe Bryant).

1) Tim Duncan
2) Shaquille O'Neal


Now it's down for McGrady v Bryant. Right off the bat, McGrady averaged more points, slightly less assists (by .2), more rebounds, more blocks (1.0), slightly more steals (by .1), shot the three ball a whole 10% better (and made over 100+ during the season), and he was slightly less efficient (54% to 53% TS), while he also had the higher PER. While I think he impacted his team in winning more than Bryant, it's really mind-boggling on how he won 44 games with that supporting cast. Again I know Kobe was the better defender between the two, but McGrady was no slouch, I just felt he helped his team in more ways than Bryant did, despite having an absolute mediocre supporting cast. I think McGrady was just the better player overall, and ranked higher too in MVP voting, but I'm definitely giving Bryant for playoffs success and championship and what not, so...

3) Tracy McGrady
4) Kobe Bryant


I'm down to between Dirk, KG, and Kidd. Kidd had the most success and immediately turned around that franchise from the direction it was headed, his impact was tremendous and was a fabulous defensive player that year. He was absolutely fantastic in the playoffs as his numbers went up to 20/9/8/41%, leading them all the way to the finals, he was 2nd in MVP voting too. So I'm going with Kidd OVER KG and Dirk.

5) Jason Kidd

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:36 pm
by semi-sentient
sp6r=underrated wrote:One more semi-random question

1. How do people feel about Pierce and T-Mac this year?


For Pierce, I had to dig into the numbers more I didn't really pay much attention to or hear much about him that season. I hate to rate someone almost exclusively on stats though, so it'll be hard for me to give him more thought over the others who I did at least watch on occasion. Just from a quick glance, his stats are nice, but not good enough to have over Kobe or McGrady, and I don't think I can put him above Kidd either.

McGrady was putting up great numbers though, and I think he and Kobe are once again comparable in terms of measurable production. Still, I think at some point in time people are going to have to accept that the further back you go with Kobe, the better his defense (and yes, it was elite during the 3-peat). If I couldn't bring myself to put McGrady over Kobe in '02-03, I certainly won't be able to do that in '01-02. He would have to have done a lot more for me to rank him higher than Kobe who played a pretty significant role in the Lakers winning a title (stepped up his game against the Spurs when Shaq struggled, and played very efficient team ball in the Finals).

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:37 pm
by Baller 24
sp6r=underrated wrote:One more semi-random question

1. How do people feel about Pierce and T-Mac this year?


Pierce won 4 MORE games with a much better supporting cast than McGrady, he also had a player in Walker that was a 22/8/5 player that was very much drew attention from defenses, McGrady didn't have that kind of caliber of a player, but despite all of that the Celtics only won a mere 4 more games than the Magic. McGrady still was a better rebounder, defender, and passer, while being higher in MVP voting, and the All-NBA team. BTW, he was 4th in voting, and on the all-nba 1st team. I just think McGrady was the better player of the two, and his impact to his team was just better.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 6:48 pm
by Baller 24
RE: Webber, I would have totally put him in the top 5, had he played more than 54 games, he is definitely in consideration for '01 though.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:08 pm
by semi-sentient
Sedale Threatt wrote:I know some people feel a lot differently about this, but do 15 games missed really make THAT much of a difference in the discussion, especially when you're talking about someone as dominant as Shaq?


It's almost a 5th of the season (IIRC, there were also some conditioning concerns), and I think Duncan played well enough in the regular season that I gave him the edge, but barely. To me, 2001-02 was kind of a breakout season for Duncan where he started really imposing his will on teams, which was not really the case in prior seasons. Had Duncan regressed in the playoffs like he did in '00-01 against the Lakers (and I intend on punishing him for it when we get to that year) then I'd have probably given Shaq the top spot rather easily. Instead, he put up some incredible numbers overall despite not having a good enough cast to really compete with the Lakers, and his first round numbers are nothing to scoff at either.

That doesn't mean I won't change my mind though. There's lots of room for debate and maybe as I look deeper into the numbers I'll have a change of heart.

I can tell you that in 2000-01 missed games isn't going to factor in as much because Duncan was not nearly as good in the regular season and he played poorly against the Lakers in the playoffs. Essentially, he's going to go from 1st to 3rd, with Shaq and Kobe occupying the 1/2 spots.

Sedale Threatt wrote:One thing to keep in mind, don't forget that Shaq was pretty dominant against Sacramento as well -- games of 27/18, 28/7 (14 for 18 shooting); 41/17 and 35/13 after L.A. had fallen behind 2-1. So he wasn't just beating up on N.J.'s stable of chumps in the playoffs.


That's a good point, and now you got my juices flowing a little.

One thing that's not shown in those numbers is the amount of attention he attracted from Webber and Divac, in addition to having those guys in constant foul trouble. I'm still struggling with how to really weigh the post-season when one player gets all the way while another guy, while dominant as hell, doesn't quite make it. I didn't really give Kobe any extra credit for that in 2008-09, nor did I give Wade the nod in 2005-06.

Still, I think I have to weigh it somehow because Shaq really did rape the hell out of the Nets, and he was the biggest factor against the Kings -- which was the true NBA Finals for me.

Re: Retro POY '01-02 (ends Wed morning PST)

Posted: Mon May 10, 2010 7:17 pm
by Baller 24
Another interesting note:

The Magic were 1-5 without McGrady, 43-33 with him. That's 10 games OVER .500 with McGrady. The Magic won 56% of their games with McGrady.

The Kings were 20-8 without Webber, 42-12 with him. They aren't at the same pace as they were with him, but that's still damn good, the thing that hurts him though, is the 54 games in the RS. The Kings won 71% of their games without Webber. 77% with Webber.

Garnett this season also had a pretty good cast I'd say. Nothing of the sort of amazing, but it was definitely solid from an overall standpoint with Wally having his best season shooting INSANE percentages, Billups was solid, Joe Smith was playing solid, Rasho was a pretty good for a 7 footer at center, it definitely wasn't bad support at all, I think they could have gotten farther than they did in '02.