Yeah, I'm not so sure if Pippen is a lock for the top five spot.
Hakeem is obviously first, was the MVP, DPOY, and Finals MVP. He was dominant in regular season, and devastating in the playoffs. I don't see an argument for anyone else to be honest. I also feel Robinson had the better individual season, he was statistically more impressive, and just as imposing defensively, if not better (averaged 30/11/5 with nearly two steals and over 3 blocks is absolutely ridiculous).
In the regular season, you could make the claim he was better than Hakeem, but playoffs once again become a factor when Robinson shoots 41% from the field, and lose in four games to the Jazz with Malone doing roughly 29/12 in the series on just over 48%. In the next series against the Nuggets, Malone aside from Game 4 was dominant as well including a 31 point, 14 rebound, and 6 assist performance in the decisive Game 7. In the WCF he didn't shoot the ball as efficiently, but in terms of volume wasn't too far off from his production.
On the season, Karl averaged 25/11/4 on roughly 50% and a career high in blocked shots. I'm trying to see if that would be enough to put him over Ewing, or even Robinson.
Ewing went to the finals, and had a monster Game 7 in the ECF against the Pacers. And IIRC, it included what would in turn be the game saving/winning basket to change the fortunes for the Knicks. But on the other side he shot a paltry 43% from the floor in the playoffs, and was terrible against the Rockets (offensively) in the Finals. I mean, when we look at in that respect, Malone lost to the same team in the WCF, and performed more admirably than Ewing did. To be fair, Ewing was a definite force defensively in that series, especially on the weakside. In the regular season, he anchored an absolutely elite defense, but statistically didn't do much to separate himself from Karl. In fact, they'd be near identical, Ewing possibly having the slight edge due to his considerably better shot-blocking numbers.
27/12 in the post season for 16 Games on 47% versus 22/12 in the post season for 25 games on 44% from the field...
I'm leaning Karl, but Ewing's defensive impact is still swaying me back and forth on that one.
Barkley had a nice season, and had a huge impact, but it was clearly in decline from 93, and did miss 17 games in the regular season (in which the Suns went 8-9). And in the playoff series against the Rockets, he shot poorly from the field on the road, including two games under 41% and a Game 5 clunker going 7 for 21.
Shaq is the other guy. The thing about him is that he got swept in the playoffs, so he's in a similar boat with Robinson with dominant statistics, even better than Hakeem on raw value, but not enough post-season success. Shaq was dominant though, 29/13 with 3 blocks on 60% from the floor. That's absolutely ridiculous. But in the playoffs, his FG% dipped (51% for him is a 9% decrease), and as did his volume barely averaging 21 PPG. And he had Penny, whom while was a rookie, was an impressive 19/7/7 in that series against the Pacers. That's sort of concerning in that the Magic won 50 games, 5 games less than the Bulls despite Pippen playing in nine less games.
Then of course is Pippen, he had an amazing season, leading the Bulls to 55 wins without Jordan, and what many believe a bad call away from reaching the NBA Finals. He did miss 10 games though, but it's partly made up in the respect that the Bulls went 4-6 in that stretch. He did roughly 22/9/6 with elite defense all while shooting 49% from the floor. That's impressive. In the playoffs however, he shot only 43% from the floor and 26% from distance. Granted the likes of Shaq, and D-Rob underperformed in the playoffs, it seems OK that at least Pippen was able to maintain the same volume of production, roughly 22/9/5.
I do think his cast gets underrated though, Grant's impact was felt immediately after he left the next season, and did 15/11 on the season. And BJ Armstrong was sort of a past day Mo Williams with that all-star berth. Kukoc was also good coming off the bench, putting up nearly 16/6/5 PER36 minutes (11/4/3 in 20 minutes). Not a terrific supporting cast, but not terrible like some make it out to be to try to pimp out Pippen's value to diminish Jordan's.
Is this enough though to go over the likes of Shaq, Robinson, Malone, and Ewing?
I'll be straight, and tell you I'd take all four over him in general, but did they all have the better seasons?
Malone, I feel was comparable enough in the regular season (not as many wins, and I'm not sure impact), but Malone was considerably better in the playoffs (27/12), and advanced further as well losing to the champs.
Ewing is in the same boat, I feel they were comparable enough in the regular season, the Knicks actually winning more games, while Ewing was the better of the two when they faced off (note: I understand they didn't guard each other, but in terms of who pushed their team more):
Scottie PippenCode: Select all
Game One: 24/4/7 on 7-19 from the field.
Game Two: 22/4/2 on 5-15 from the field.
Game Three: 25/7/4 on 10-20 from the field.
Game Four: 25/8/6 on 10-21 from the field.
Game Five: 23/4/4 on 8-18 from the field.
Game Six: 13/11/5 on 5-16 from the field.
Game Seven: 20/16/5 on on 8-22 from the field.21.7 PPG, 7.7 RPG, 4.7 APG on .404 from the field.
Patrick EwingCode: Select all
Game One: 18/12/3 on 7-16 from the field.
Game Two: 26/9/3 on 9-12 from the field.
Game Three: 34/9/4 on 14-19 from the field.
Game Four: 18/10/2 on 7-14 from the field.
Game Five: 20/13/1 on 9-21 from the field.
Game Six: 26/14/1 on 9-18 from the field.
Game Seven: 18/17/6 on 7-17 from the field.22.8 PPG, 12.0 RPG, 2.8 APG on .529 from the field.
Another note: Both of them actually shot roughly the same percentage from the floor in the regular season, so Ewing in fact stepped up his game, while Pippens efficiency dropped greatly.
I think I'd take Ewing.
Now, Shaq, and D-Rob didn't fare as much team success as Pippen, but is those extra 6-7 games worth more than how much more dominant Shaq and DRob were in the regular season. I want to say it's closer in the regular season, especially considering Pippen's team fared such great heights without Jordan, but I can't. DRob and Shaq were 30/13 big men that had big impacts defensively, especially Robinson.
I have these five over Pippen, but now it's the order.
I think I'd have Robinson over Shaq, due to defense and passing. But could it potentially be argued that Malone was better than the both of them? More team success than the both of them, and definite better play in the post-season as well. I think I might have Karl over Shaq because of the defensive defensive impact being not as large as it is between both Robinson and Malone.
But I also can't help the fact that Malone dominated Robinson in the playoffs once again. As previously mentioned, 29/12 in that series on roughly 49%. I mean when Robinson played well, the Spurs won, or in the case of Game 4 were close. In the two games (2 and 3), in which he shoots 10-35, they get blown out.
I mean, I didn't come into this thread expecting to strongly consider Malone for the #2 spot after Hakeem, but honestly, I'm not sure I'd be opposed to that, in fact, he might BE my #2 guy. Then what about Ewing, all these guys are so close, I'm just beginning to rant.
Check out Ewing's stats PRIOR to the finals:
Code: Select all
23.0 PPG, 11.4 RPG on .473 from the field.So as I was sort of generalizing, or downplaying Ewing's post-season run, he was far more efficient prior to getting shat on by Hakeem. While it's obvious those finals should count in his overall statistics, that's a better post-season run than guys like Shaq/D-Rob, while being better in the playoffs.
I think all these guys right now are too close for comfort with me.
I'm leaning towards Hakeem, Robinson, Ewing, Malone, and Shaq as a sort of order, but honestly the last four can be switched. But considering defensive impact and team success in Ewing's case, it's looking more and more like Shaq will be 5th on my list (which is ridiculous considering the sort of regular season he had - arguably better than #1 Hakeem). But then I go back to "Robinson should be right next to Shaq," but it seems weird putting both Ewing and Malone over both when they were not the better players in the regular season. Ugh, back to the same place I was in before.
So now, I have only for sure, Hakeem being #1. I'll refrain from voting right now, but Robinson will be over Shaq (should only be one spot), while Ewing could/should conceivably be over Malone due to the defensive impact, and similar play throughout three rounds of the playoffs. Neither are the better players than Shaq or Robinson, but team success, and better post-season play counts as a large factor as well. Sort of leaning Ewing, Malone, DRob, and Shaq, but will refrain for right now.
1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2.
3.
4.
5.
