Retro POY '79-80 (Voting Complete)

Post #1 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 7:53 pm

In this thread we'll discuss and vote on the top 5 best player seasons of '79-80.

Trying something new now. Schedule will be Mon-Fri, and Thu-Mon. Typically this will be morning to morning.

Some things to start us off:

Season Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/lea ... _1980.html
Playoff Summary http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... _1980.html
Award Voting http://www.basketball-reference.com/awa ... _1980.html
Final Box Score http://webuns.chez-alice.fr/finals/1980.htm

Topics
Well, it's all about Bird & Magic.

ronnymac2 · Post #2 » by **ronnymac2** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:06 pm

Bird and Magic are EASILY my one and two. I always like to give rookies extra credit- the benefit of the doubt. I just like how rookies play. Always trying their hardest.

Dr Positivity · Post #3 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:12 pm

Feels like just yesterday Magic was making his first appearance in 91. Summer's going quick.

Gongxi · Post #4 » by **Gongxi** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:13 pm

Not gonna risk missing out again. I've been busy as hell lately, but I'm here now and already did most the work for this season weeks ago (this is the last season that I did that for so...gonna be crunched for time here in the future). Anyway, in case I can't get back here:

1- Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
2- Julius Erving
3- Moses Malone
4- Larry Bird
5- Magic Johnson

Post #5 » by **Optimism Prime** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:15 pm

Playing Devil's advocate here--Magic had a great game, and I'm sure we'll all lose our collective minds over it, but look at Kareem's numbers in the finals:

33 points, 14 rebounds, 3 assists, 4.5 blocks. 55% from the field, 80% from the line.

Again, I get that he didn't play the last game of the season and so Magic's heroic game will probably end up trumping his series, but that's a pretty ridiculous stat line.

Post #6 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:20 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:Bird and Magic are EASILY my one and two. I always like to give rookies extra credit- the benefit of the doubt. I just like how rookies play. Always trying their hardest.

Ha, okay just to be clear, wrote the Topics in a hurry based on what's most noteworthy about this year.

Kareem and Erving are obviously 1 & 2 here from my perspective.

Post #7 » by **semi-sentient** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:25 pm

1979-80 Candidates

Regular Season

Code: Select all

Player      GP  MIN   PTS   TS%   REB   AST   STL  BLK  TOV  WS
=================================================================
Kareem      82  38.3  24.8  .616  10.8  4.5   1.0  3.4  3.6  14.8
Erving      78  36.1  26.9  .568   7.4  4.6   2.2  1.8  3.6  12.5
Gervin      78  37.6  33.1  .587   5.2  2.6   1.4  1.0  3.3  10.6
Magic       77  36.3  18.0  .602   7.7  7.3   2.4  0.5  4.0  10.5
Bird        82  36.0  21.3  .538  10.4  4.5   1.7  0.6  3.2  11.2
Malone      82  38.3  25.8  .560  14.5  1.8   1.0  1.3  3.7  11.9

Post Season

Code: Select all

Player      GP  MIN   PTS   TS%   REB   AST   STL  BLK  TOV  WS
=================================================================
Kareem      15  41.2  31.9  .611  12.1  3.1   1.1  3.9  3.7  3.3
Erving      18  38.6  24.4  .553   7.6  4.4   2.0  2.1  3.1  2.6
Gervin       3  40.7  33.3  .573   6.7  4.0   1.7  1.0  3.0  0.5
Magic       16  41.1  18.3  .596  10.5  9.4   3.1  0.4  4.1  2.8
Bird         9  41.3  21.3  .511  11.2  4.7   1.6  0.9  3.7  1.1
Malone       7  39.3  25.9  .577  13.9  1.0   0.6  2.3  3.1  0.9

Awards Recognition / Misc

Code: Select all

Player      MVP     All-NBA   All-Defense    Team Record
=========================================================
Kareem      1       1st       1st            60-22
Erving      2       1st       ---            59-23
Gervin      3       1st       ---            41-41
Magic       -       ---       ---            60-22
Bird        4       1st       ---            61-21
Malone      9       2nd       ---            41-41

NBA Finals

Code: Select all

Player      MIN   PTS   TS%   REB   AST   STL  BLK  TOV
========================================================
Kareem      40.6  33.4  .578  13.6  3.2   0.6  4.6  4.2
Magic       42.7  21.5  .648  11.2  8.7   2.7  0.3  5.0
Erving      40.7  25.5  .570   7.0  5.0   2.0  2.3  2.8

Final Rankings:

1) Kareem
2) Erving
3) Bird
4) Magic
5) Malone

Gongxi · Post #8 » by **Gongxi** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:35 pm

26 & 15 isn't enough to garner a mention as a candidate, semi?

Dr Positivity · Post #9 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:35 pm

I think Kareem will get his due Optimisim. He's an easy #1 for me this year despite missing the last game. MVP and he destroyed in the Finals, with his Game 5 being almost as good as Magic's Game 6. He outplayed Erving in literally every game in the Finals btw.

Erving is the easy #2 for me after Kareem, he dropped a sick 27/7/5/2/2 on good %s, led a 59 win team past Bird and into the Finals. I think Erving's biggest problem right after the merger was his lack of shooting range and perimeter polish. This was when he started to shoot better and put up dominant scoring points again

Probably putting Bird 3rd, he had a bit of KG 08 in him in that he turned that team around mentally and made it into a winner. Plus 61 wins with a roster that had sucked the year before is pretty impressive.

I like Gervin more than Moses this year, this was clearly Moses' weakest year of his 4 year peak, and 41 wins and an easy 2nd round knockout is pretty disappointing for the Rockets with supporting talent like Murphy, Rudy T., Reid, Barry. Gervin's 41 win team seemed to be with a lot less so I'll give him the edge. Also the Spurs fired their coach halfway through the year which usually leads to a deflated record, unsurprisingly this 41 win season sticks out like a sore thumb among the 48-52 type ones during the rest of Gervin's prime. I'd be interested in Gervin/Moses' 1st round matchup btw

What to do with Magic? Unbelievable last game but clearly not at the level of these guys yet. Probably won't make my ballot but I could be convinced

Minge · Post #10 » by **Minge** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:37 pm

Los Angeles 109, Philadelphia 102

Philadelphia 107, Los Angeles 104

Los Angeles 111, Philadelphia 101

Philadelphia 105, Los Angeles 102

Los Angeles 108, Philadelphia 103

Los Angeles 123, Philadelphia 107

Post #11 » by **Doctor MJ** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:43 pm

Dr Mufasa wrote:Probably putting Bird 3rd, he had a bit of KG 08 in him in that he turned that team around mentally and made it into a winner. Plus 61 wins with a roster that had sucked the year before is pretty impressive.

One of the things I really look forward to is analysis on Bird's impact this year. It's easy to say "Big impact, but others deserve some credit", but I'm looking at a team with an SRS of 7.37 - 2nd best of Bird's career - with a Bird I can't imagine was having near the impact of say, '84 Bird, and a supporting cast that isn't thought to be as good as the '84 cast. So how did they do it?

ThaRegul8r · Post #12 » by **ThaRegul8r** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:51 pm

ronnymac2 wrote:Bird and Magic are EASILY my one and two. I always like to give rookies extra credit- the benefit of the doubt. I just like how rookies play. Always trying their hardest.

Wait, what? No mention whatsoever of Kareem???

:confused:

I'm going to have to comment on that egregious oversight later when I have time.

Dr Mufasa wrote:I think Kareem will get his due Optimisim. He's an easy #1 for me this year despite missing the last game. MVP and he destroyed in the Finals, with his Game 5 being almost as good as Magic's Game 6.

Easy. And I don't like using that word.

JordansBulls · Post #13 » by **JordansBulls** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:56 pm

1. Kareem - League MVP, Led in Win Shares in the season and playoffs, was 2nd in PER on the season, 1st in playoff PER. 1st Team All NBA and 1st Team Defense

2. Julius Erving - 2nd in MVP Voting, 2nd in Win Shares and 1st in PER and 3rd in WS Per 48 minutes on the season. 1st Team All NBA.

3. Moses Malone - Finished 4th in Win Shares on the season, and 4th in PER, and 2nd in Playoff PER, All NBA 2nd Team.

4. Magic Johnson - Finals MVP, 2nd in Playoff Win Shares, 3rd in Win Shares PER 48 minutes and 4th in playoff PER.

5. Larry Bird - Finished 4th in MVP Voting and 1st Team All NBA

HM: Cedric Maxwell

Dr Positivity · Post #14 » by **Dr Positivity** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:00 pm

On the Celtics - I've gotten the impression that team and their fans were full of energy from the getgo, after the year long wait for Bird and a a city used to dominating. Now it's questionable how much impact something like that could have, but in recent years the New Orleans Hornets have proven to me the impact excitement like that can have. I don't think the 08 team was really much better on paper than the 09 or 10 (pre Paul injury) were, but their results were simply because the enthusiasm surrounding the team in 08 was so much better. In 08 they won 56 with a 5.4 SRS and made the 2nd round, in 09 they won 49 with a 1.41 and got their asses kicked in the playoffs and then in '10 they were below .500 even before Paul got injured. On paper the team of Paul, West, and shooters shouldn't have changed the results that much, but it makes a huge difference when your team is jacked up every night on both ends like the 08 Hornets, compared to collecting cheques and letting the star do everything like the team the last 2 years. It's also why last year's team didn't do much worse when Paul got injured, it wasn't because Collision matched his production, it was because everyone else had to start playing harder

I also think Tiny, Maxwell, Cowens + Robey, Maravich, Ford, Carr, Henderson is a pretty group behind a superstar, no 2nd superstar, but good passing, shooting, and bigs can do the trick, as the Cavs have recently found out. I think McAdoo winning 29 games with the 79 team looks really bad btw.

Post #15 » by **Optimism Prime** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:08 pm

ThaRegul8r wrote:
Dr Mufasa wrote:I think Kareem will get his due Optimisim. He's an easy #1 for me this year despite missing the last game. MVP and he destroyed in the Finals, with his Game 5 being almost as good as Magic's Game 6.

Easy. And I don't like using that word.

Yeah, it's all good. I just saw "It's all about Bird and Magic" and I was all :confused:

but then he clarified that it was just the first quick topic that came to mind and then I was all

Mean_Streets · Post #16 » by **Mean_Streets** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:13 pm

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar - Easily #1 & I really don't see an argument being made for another player. League MVP & should of been the Finals MVP.

2. Julius Erving - 2nd in MVP voting. Led team to the Finals.

3. Moses Malone - 26/15 player.

4. Larry Bird. - Made a 29 win team a 61 win team. Made All-NBA First Team as a rookie. One of the greatest rookie seasons of all time.

5. George Gervin - I want to put Magic at #5 because of his incredible game 6 performance, but I can't. Gervin had the greatest season of his career in '80. Averaged 33 PPG on 53 FG%. Insane numbers. Got to rank him ahead of Magic.

ElGee · Post #17 » by **ElGee** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:31 pm

shawngoat23 · Post #18 » by **shawngoat23** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:32 pm

Magic Johnson will get disproportionate weight from me for his Game 6 performance. I'm not sure where that puts him overall, but sometimes, a game is the entire season.

Post #19 » by **semi-sentient** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:32 pm

Gongxi wrote:26 & 15 isn't enough to garner a mention as a candidate, semi?

Yeah, it is. Somehow I overlooked him so I revamped my list and swapped out he and Gervin.

Post #20 » by **semi-sentient** » Mon Jul 19, 2010 9:36 pm

shawngoat23 wrote:Magic Johnson will get disproportionate weight from me for his Game 6 performance. I'm not sure where that puts him overall, but sometimes, a game is the entire season.

I don't think it's just that one game. His playoff numbers as a whole are pretty sick, almost averaging a triple-double. In the Finals, his stat line is pretty ridiculous as well.

Code: Select all

              MIN   PTS   TS%   REB   AST   STL  BLK  TOV
==========================================================
Reg. Season   36.3  18.0  .602   7.7  7.3   2.4  0.5  4.0
Post Season   41.1  18.3  .596  10.5  9.4   3.1  0.4  4.1
NBA Finals    42.7  21.5  .648  11.2  8.7   2.7  0.3  5.0