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Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:53 am**

I'd say it's a Go to scorer, those are harder to find

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:58 am**

Defensive anchor, for exmaple look at this year's mIami heat. They had two elite scorers and they still coudln't get it done against dallas. I did some research and saw that Dallas this year averaged an offensive rating of 110.466667 in the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 8th best in the regular season. Coincidentally that is where the Dallas Mavericks' offense ranked this season, 8th. On the other hand Miami averaged an offensive rating of 107.933333 throughout the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 14th best offensive rating in the regular season, well below their regular season offensive rating of 111.7 which was 3rd best in the league. The point is even though Miami Heat had 2 superstars in James nd Wade and a top 15 player in Bosh, their TEAM's offense was below Dallas's, who only has 1 superstar in Dirk Nowitzki. It wasn't until Dallas brought in Tyson Chandler that they were able to win a title. LWith Chandler at the helm, combined with Brendan Haywood and Dirk (who is a good team defender) they had a better interior D than Miami who has Bosh, Haslem, and Anthony. Bosh, Haslem , and Anthony are not bad defenders, they're actually good but none of them can anchor an entire team defense the way Chandler or Haywood could IMO. Miami needs to get someone like Samuel Dalembert, then their interior defense would be much improved and then they could start winning championships.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 4:59 am**

well its completely neglecting what kind of defensive player the 1st option is (as well as what kind of player in general) and what kind of offensive player the anchor is, but based on these vague roles, its easily go to scorer, especially if we assume the rest of the team is filled out with comparable talent for both.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:02 am**

Wone wrote:Defensive anchor, for exmaple look at this year's mIami heat. They had two elite scorers and they still coudln't get it done against dallas. I did some research and saw that Dallas this year averaged an offensive rating of 110.466667 in the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 8th best in the regular season. Coincidentally that is where the Dallas Mavericks' offense ranked this season, 8th. On the other hand Miami averaged an offensive rating of 107.933333 throughout the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 14th best offensive rating in the regular season, well below their regular season offensive rating of 111.7 which was 3rd best in the league. The point is even though Miami Heat had 2 superstars in James nd Wade and a top 15 player in Bosh, their TEAM's offense was below Dallas's, who only has 1 superstar in Dirk Nowitzki. It wasn't until Dallas brought in Tyson Chandler that they were able to win a title. LWith Chandler at the helm, combined with Brendan Haywood and Dirk (who is a good team defender) they had a better interior D than Miami who has Bosh, Haslem, and Anthony. Bosh, Haslem , and Anthony are not bad defenders, they're actually good but none of them can anchor an entire team defense the way Chandler or Haywood could IMO. Miami needs to get someone like Samuel Dalembert, then their interior defense would be much improved and then they could start winning championships.

you just totally ignored the fact that Dallas is COMPLETELY built around an offensive guy in Dirk. also Miami adding a defensive presence wouldnt mean thats what their built around, their foundation is still Lebron/Wade and to a lesser extent Bosh.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:07 am**

Doormatt wrote:
Wone wrote:Defensive anchor, for exmaple look at this year's mIami heat. They had two elite scorers and they still coudln't get it done against dallas. I did some research and saw that Dallas this year averaged an offensive rating of 110.466667 in the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 8th best in the regular season. Coincidentally that is where the Dallas Mavericks' offense ranked this season, 8th. On the other hand Miami averaged an offensive rating of 107.933333 throughout the 6 games in the Finals this year. That would be good enough for 14th best offensive rating in the regular season, well below their regular season offensive rating of 111.7 which was 3rd best in the league. The point is even though Miami Heat had 2 superstars in James nd Wade and a top 15 player in Bosh, their TEAM's offense was below Dallas's, who only has 1 superstar in Dirk Nowitzki. It wasn't until Dallas brought in Tyson Chandler that they were able to win a title. LWith Chandler at the helm, combined with Brendan Haywood and Dirk (who is a good team defender) they had a better interior D than Miami who has Bosh, Haslem, and Anthony. Bosh, Haslem , and Anthony are not bad defenders, they're actually good but none of them can anchor an entire team defense the way Chandler or Haywood could IMO. Miami needs to get someone like Samuel Dalembert, then their interior defense would be much improved and then they could start winning championships.

you just completely ignored the fact that Dallas is COMPLETELY built around an offensive guy in Dirk. also Miami adding a defensive presence wouldnt mean thats what their built around, their foundation is still Lebron/Wade and to a lesser extent Bosh.

I know Dallas is completely built around Dirk, I was just saying that I think a defensive anchor is more important for winning a title than a go to guy or elite scorer. And I don't think I said a team has to build around a defensive anchor. Obviously the team builds around a superstar scorer. But a team still needs a guy that can anchor the enitre team defense. That doesn't make him the guy you build around, but a very valuable piece.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:12 am**

1st option + Anchor : Ala : Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan.

but if I had to pick between the two a defensive anchor is more important, even Elite Wing Scorers like Kobe/Wade/Lebron cannot win without a legit bigman anchor and all off their anchors have all been fairly talented offensively aswell.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:23 am**

Wone wrote:I know Dallas is completely built around Dirk, I was just saying that I think a defensive anchor is more important for winning a title than a go to guy or elite scorer. And I don't think I said a team has to build around a defensive anchor. Obviously the team builds around a superstar scorer. But a team still needs a guy that can anchor the enitre team defense. That doesn't make him the guy you build around, but a very valuable piece.

well the question wasnt whats more valuable, its what would you build a team around. and still, the #1 scoring option is generally more important than the defensive anchor. its hard to find a really good example of that, since pretty much all the great defensive anchors (KG, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) have been great/#1 offensive players as well.

looking at teams who have been to the finals the past decade, maybe the best example is the 76ers with Iverson and Deke/Ratliff. would you argue that Mutombo (and Ratliff before he was traded) were more important/better/valuable than Iverson?

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:26 am**

Anyone can score. Few can anchor. Gotta go with with D.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:32 am**

Doormatt wrote:
Wone wrote:I know Dallas is completely built around Dirk, I was just saying that I think a defensive anchor is more important for winning a title than a go to guy or elite scorer. And I don't think I said a team has to build around a defensive anchor. Obviously the team builds around a superstar scorer. But a team still needs a guy that can anchor the enitre team defense. That doesn't make him the guy you build around, but a very valuable piece.

well the question wasnt whats more valuable, its what would you build a team around. and still, the #1 scoring option is generally more important than the defensive anchor. its hard to find a really good example of that, since pretty much all the great defensive anchors (KG, Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem) have been great/#1 offensive players as well.

looking at teams who have been to the finals the past decade, maybe the best example is the 76ers with Iverson and Deke/Ratliff. would you argue that Mutombo (and Ratliff before he was traded) were more important/better/valuable than Iverson?

Well it said "what's more important to build a hchampionship team" in the OP and "what's more important for a championship team" in the poll so i guess it's just semantics. But i see what you're saying. And i wouldn't say Mutombo and Ratliff wer e more improtant to the '01 Sixers than AI, but simarly how far did the '05 and '07 Suns go in the playoffs? They never even reached the Finals and interestingly enoough, they didn't have a defensive anchor in any of those teams.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:41 am**

well, the Suns were sort of an unlucky bunch, but they were definitely a championship caliber team. if they get a few different breaks (suspensions, injuries, etc..) they could have quite easily won a title. in fairness, those Suns were GOAT caliber offensive teams, so the offense they were producing (as opposed to defense) was at a historic level.

but its a decent point, the suns definitely could have stood to lose some offense for a guy who could legitimately play center (instead of Diaw and Thomas).

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:52 am**

1st option

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:58 am**

Darain wrote:I'd say it's a Go to scorer, those are harder to find

Tell Nash and Nowitzki that.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 5:58 am**

Some people are saying "1st option"

but how many teams in recent history have won with a 1st option and no defensive anchor(s).

Early 00 LA had Shaq, SA had Duncan, Mia had Shaq/Mourning, LA had Gasol/Bynum/Odom, Detroit had the Wallace Twins, Dallas had Chandler.

Maybe the 90's bulls? but they had Gilmore/Rodman.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:05 am**

for all those teams, the defensive anchor was the #1 scoring option, or the anchor wasnt the player the team was built around, see Gasol and Chandler, and to a lesser extent Shaq on Miami.

34Dayz wrote:but how many teams in recent history have won with a 1st option and no defensive anchor(s).

no championship team has ever been built with just one of a go-to scoring option or defensive anchor. theyve all needed a bit of both. question is, which is more valuable, or important?

the pistons are the only exception i can think of, as they really werent built around 1 player in particular.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:12 am**

Doormatt wrote:looking at teams who have been to the finals the past decade, maybe the best example is the 76ers with Iverson and Deke/Ratliff. would you argue that Mutombo (and Ratliff before he was traded) were more important/better/valuable than Iverson?

Mutombo averaged 16.6 points, 15.6 rebounds and 2.71 blocked shots in 44.6 minutes per game in the Eastern Conference Finals against the Milwaukee Bucks. In Game 1, Mutombo had 15 points, 18 rebounds—7 offensive, and four blocked shots in 44 minutes in a 93-85 win. “He kept the Sixers in the game when his teammate Allen Iverson was struggling [13-for-35]” (New York Times, May 24, 2001). Milwaukee shot 39.8 percent from the floor. In Game 2, Mutombo had 18 points and 20 rebounds in 44 minutes, but Milwaukee won 92-78 to tie the series. In Game 4, Mutombo “dominated the paint” with 17 points, 15 rebounds and four blocked shots in 46 minutes in a 89-83 win (Reading Eagle, May 28, 2001). In Game 5, Mutombo had 21 points on 6-for-11 shooting from the floor and 9 of 9 shooting from the line and 13 rebounds to help Philadelphia overcome a 5-for-27 shooting night from Allen Iverson and lead the 76ers to an 89-88 win and 3-2 series lead. “With Allen Iverson struggling and scoring only 15 points, it was Dikembe Mutombo who stepped up” (USA Today, May 31, 2001). Philadelphia won Game 7 108-91 to advance to the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. Allen Iverson had 44 points (17-33 FG), six rebounds, seven assists and two steals in 44 minutes, and Mutombo had 23 points, 19 rebounds and seven blocked shots in a game-high 47 minutes. “Iverson showed why he is the MVP, and Dikembe Mutombo showed why the 76ers traded for him, combining to lead Philadelphia past the Milwaukee Bucks […] to the NBA Finals for the first time in 18 years.”

PHILADELPHIA — The way Dikembe Mutombo figured it, Milwaukee coach George Karl was trying to get into his head.

The way it turned out, all Karl got into was trouble.

Back in February, just after the Philadelphia 76ers traded Theo Ratlff and Toni Kukoc—among others—to Atlanta to bring the 7-2 Mutombo north, Karl said that Mutombo would be “irrelevant” and “not a factor” against Milwaukee. Karl’s rationale: Milwaukee was a perimeter-oriented team, and Mutombo was an inside-only player.

But from Game 1, which Mutombo dominated, through Sunday’s Game 7 Sixers win, Mutombo battered the Bucks.

The Big Man scored 23 points, pulled down 19 rebounds and blocked seven shots to help lead the Sixers to a 108-91 win and into the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. For the series, Mr. Irrelevant averaged 16.6 points, 15.6 rebounds and 2.7 blocked shots.

Mutombo registered a double-double (points-rebounds) in each of the series’ seven games.

Asked to comment on his past remarks regarding Mutombo, Karl stormed out of Sunday’s post-game press conference.

But the man teammates call Deke was more than happy to talk about Karl’s unintended motivational push.

“I think he was scared to see the ghost of ’95 back,” Mutombo said, referring to the first-round series six years ago in which his eighth-seeded Denver Nuggets upset Karl’s top-seeded Seattle SuperSonics. “I think he saw it again, and I think that’s why he tried to get inside of my mind. I think that he forgot what I did to him (when Karl was) in Seattle.

“I don’t know why he chose me (to pick on), but I’m glad he’s going home and I’m staying around.”

“Dikembe,” said Sixers forward Tyrone Hill, “was just a dominating presence throughout this series.”

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:34 am**

Scoring is easy. Anybody can do it. The hardest thing is to get the team to play defense as a cohesive unit. If you have a big-time defensive C as your anchor on defense, it makes your entire team's defense much better. That's how much effect the defensive anchor can have on your defense. Look at Detroit in 2004. Big Ben was a big time defensive anchor for the team. He made the entire team's defense better. You can get guys who can score. They are easy to find

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 6:38 am**

ThaRegul8r wrote:
Doormatt wrote:looking at teams who have been to the finals the past decade, maybe the best example is the 76ers with Iverson and Deke/Ratliff. would you argue that Mutombo (and Ratliff before he was traded) were more important/better/valuable than Iverson?

Mutombo averaged 16.6 points, 15.6 rebounds and 2.71 blocked shots in 44.6 minutes per game in the Eastern Conference Finals against the Milwaukee Bucks. In Game 1, Mutombo had 15 points, 18 rebounds—7 offensive, and four blocked shots in 44 minutes in a 93-85 win. “He kept the Sixers in the game when his teammate Allen Iverson was struggling [13-for-35]” (New York Times, May 24, 2001). Milwaukee shot 39.8 percent from the floor. In Game 2, Mutombo had 18 points and 20 rebounds in 44 minutes, but Milwaukee won 92-78 to tie the series. In Game 4, Mutombo “dominated the paint” with 17 points, 15 rebounds and four blocked shots in 46 minutes in a 89-83 win (Reading Eagle, May 28, 2001). In Game 5, Mutombo had 21 points on 6-for-11 shooting from the floor and 9 of 9 shooting from the line and 13 rebounds to help Philadelphia overcome a 5-for-27 shooting night from Allen Iverson and lead the 76ers to an 89-88 win and 3-2 series lead. “With Allen Iverson struggling and scoring only 15 points, it was Dikembe Mutombo who stepped up” (USA Today, May 31, 2001). Philadelphia won Game 7 108-91 to advance to the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. Allen Iverson had 44 points (17-33 FG), six rebounds, seven assists and two steals in 44 minutes, and Mutombo had 23 points, 19 rebounds and seven blocked shots in a game-high 47 minutes. “Iverson showed why he is the MVP, and Dikembe Mutombo showed why the 76ers traded for him, combining to lead Philadelphia past the Milwaukee Bucks […] to the NBA Finals for the first time in 18 years.”

PHILADELPHIA — The way Dikembe Mutombo figured it, Milwaukee coach George Karl was trying to get into his head.

The way it turned out, all Karl got into was trouble.

Back in February, just after the Philadelphia 76ers traded Theo Ratlff and Toni Kukoc—among others—to Atlanta to bring the 7-2 Mutombo north, Karl said that Mutombo would be “irrelevant” and “not a factor” against Milwaukee. Karl’s rationale: Milwaukee was a perimeter-oriented team, and Mutombo was an inside-only player.

But from Game 1, which Mutombo dominated, through Sunday’s Game 7 Sixers win, Mutombo battered the Bucks.

The Big Man scored 23 points, pulled down 19 rebounds and blocked seven shots to help lead the Sixers to a 108-91 win and into the NBA Finals against the Los Angeles Lakers. For the series, Mr. Irrelevant averaged 16.6 points, 15.6 rebounds and 2.7 blocked shots.

Mutombo registered a double-double (points-rebounds) in each of the series’ seven games.

Asked to comment on his past remarks regarding Mutombo, Karl stormed out of Sunday’s post-game press conference.

But the man teammates call Deke was more than happy to talk about Karl’s unintended motivational push.

“I think he was scared to see the ghost of ’95 back,” Mutombo said, referring to the first-round series six years ago in which his eighth-seeded Denver Nuggets upset Karl’s top-seeded Seattle SuperSonics. “I think he saw it again, and I think that’s why he tried to get inside of my mind. I think that he forgot what I did to him (when Karl was) in Seattle.

“I don’t know why he chose me (to pick on), but I’m glad he’s going home and I’m staying around.”

“Dikembe,” said Sixers forward Tyrone Hill, “was just a dominating presence throughout this series.”

Absolutely beautiful. As a Sixers fan, I always thought Deke had the biggest impact during the Sixers' run to the Finals in 2001. I know many people choose AI but Deke covered Iverson's mistakes and poor play so many times in the 2001 playoffs

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:16 am**

An elite two-way big man, I think that's what most people are getting at.

You can't build a championship team around just Mutombo or just Wallace. Like someone else pointed out, you need a bit of both, regarding a defensive anchor and a go-to scorer.

But if you have a guy like Hakeem or Duncan, you have both in one player...it's the reason why big men are considered more valuable than perimeter players when building a team, they have the potential to fulfill the two most important roles on the team.

Wilt, Kareem, Walton, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, KG...great offensive players that also anchored championship teams.

Even Russell can be included in that list, because he was a decent offensive player, reminds me of KG, but with much better defense, although maybe worse scoring.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:31 am**

Defensive anchors are great, but most of them these days are 7'0 Centers with no semblance of offense. I will take the go to scorer and then just fill in with a Center that is adequate on defense.

Posted: **Sun Jul 31, 2011 9:39 am**

therealbig3 wrote:An elite two-way big man, I think that's what most people are getting at.

You can't build a championship team around just Mutombo or just Wallace. Like someone else pointed out, you need a bit of both, regarding a defensive anchor and a go-to scorer.

But if you have a guy like Hakeem or Duncan, you have both in one player...it's the reason why big men are considered more valuable than perimeter players when building a team, they have the potential to fulfill the two most important roles on the team.

Wilt, Kareem, Walton, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, KG...great offensive players that also anchored championship teams.

Even Russell can be included in that list, because he was a decent offensive player, reminds me of KG, but with much better defense, although maybe worse scoring.

Always easier to build around a big...but the league hasn't found an elite two way big of Kareem, Shaq, Duncan, KG...in forever. The league has translated into a touch foul, simple pick and roll offense, that it's easier to build around a legit go to scorer with decent defensive bigs like Chandler or Bynum and shooters.

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