RealGM

generally people say he had one of the GOAT peaks of all time. Well he had a pretty damn long peak of about a decade, 4 championships, finals MVPs...what do you say?

No for top 3, but yes for Top 5

Why not, other then Jordan I don't think there was a player in the game more dominant offensively from this generation and defensively he was always one of the best Anchors in the league only behind perhaps Hakeem when it came to Two Way GOAT level Centers.

The only player I think has an argument for being more impactful on the offensive + defensive end together is Jordan.

From 00-02 I think he was the best player in the history of the game, with only Jordan having an argument to be with him or over him.

In my All-Time Draft I have Oneal 1 or 2 with Jordan so yes I do consider him to be one of the two best players ever.

Depends on what factors you wanna look at. He certainly has the accolades and titles. But until somoene comes up with a quantifiable criteria for GOAT, it's all conjecture.

Wilt will always be considered the more individually "able" player because of his awesome stats. But he lacked mental toughness to win more titles. KAJ had longevity, more points and titles, yet if you put Shaq and him in a H2H series, I'd put money on Shaq. Russell has 11 titles, but he had 6 HOFers at his side MINIMUM. And the era vs. era argument comes into play. Magic- more titles, best PG ever, but he also had the Showtime Lakers around him. Bird- has less titles, less longevity, etc. but is considered better because of his impact on the game. Akeem and Duncan are routinely grouped around him, but there really isn't justification to put either above him.

So it comes back to the criteria. There were many players more skilled. There were better defenders, rebounders, scorers, etc. But there weren't many that were the total package (not Lex Luger). There was an analysis in some b-ball mag that had him at #4 recently. I personally have him at #7 if I look at it objectively.

Final Note : The Lowest I would ever Rank Shaq is #5.

jaypo wrote:Depends on what factors you wanna look at. He certainly has the accolades and titles.

He does not have accolades and titles over:
Jordan
Russell
KAJ

IMO Shaq has a case for 5-9.

Oh, and yes there is absolutely justification for Duncan or Dream over Shaq. I don't see it that way, but the argument is possible.

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Shaq
5. Wilt
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Olajuwon
9. Kobe
10. Bird

That is how I see it. You can't make a case for Shaq over Kareem.

No

You must jump through several hoops, but it is not impossible. No way he passes Jordan, but if you firmly believe that

- "Russell, Kareem, Magic and Bird had much more support"
- "Hakeem won less rings, and he beat Duncan head to head"
- "Shaq's low points don't matter, just look at the peak"

he has a #2 case. It is a bit rosy tinted, but not outlandish.

Point forward wrote:You must jump through several hoops, but it is not impossible. No way he passes Jordan, but if you firmly believe that

- "Russell, Kareem, Magic and Bird had much more support"
- "Duncan and Hakeem won less rings, that is all that matters"
- "Shaq's low points don't matter, just look at the peak"

he has a #2 case. It is a bit rosy tinted, but not outlandish.

Duncan and Shaq both have 4 rings...

jaypo wrote:Russell has 11 titles, but he had 6 HOFers at his side MINIMUM.

I don't argue, but then, Russell had Cousy, old Risen, Hondo, Heinsohn, Ramsey, old Lovellette, Sharman, Sanders, old Howell, Sam Jones and KC Jones. Shaq had Penny, Kobe, old Zo, old Richmond, old Payton, old K. Malone, Wade, Amare, Nash, and Lebron.

IMHO, that stacks up pretty well...

Rapcity_11 wrote:Duncan and Shaq both have 4 rings...

Thx, I corrected it...

Point forward wrote:

jaypo wrote:Russell has 11 titles, but he had 6 HOFers at his side MINIMUM.

I don't argue, but then, Russell had Cousy, old Risen, Hondo, Heinsohn, Ramsey, old Lovellette, Sharman, Sanders, old Howell, Sam Jones and KC Jones. Shaq had Penny, Kobe, old Zo, old Richmond, old Payton, old K. Malone, Wade, Amare, Nash, and Lebron.

IMHO, that stacks up pretty well...

Russell had a team that had 9 HOF one year. Shaq only had 1 HOF usually and when he did have more, it was because they were old and sucked (Malone, Zo, Payton).

colts18 wrote:

Point forward wrote:

jaypo wrote:Russell has 11 titles, but he had 6 HOFers at his side MINIMUM.

I don't argue, but then, Russell had Cousy, old Risen, Hondo, Heinsohn, Ramsey, old Lovellette, Sharman, Sanders, old Howell, Sam Jones and KC Jones. Shaq had Penny, Kobe, old Zo, old Richmond, old Payton, old K. Malone, Wade, Amare, Nash, and Lebron.

IMHO, that stacks up pretty well...

Russell had a team that had 9 HOF one year. Shaq only had 1 HOF usually and when he did have more, it was because they were old and sucked (Malone, Zo, Payton).

That's because they decided to induct every single player associated with the '60s Celtics. Next year they'll induct the ball boy and waterboy.

jaypo wrote:Depends on what factors you wanna look at. He certainly has the accolades and titles. But until somoene comes up with a quantifiable criteria for GOAT, it's all conjecture.

Wilt will always be considered the more individually "able" player because of his awesome stats. But he lacked mental toughness to win more titles. KAJ had longevity, more points and titles, yet if you put Shaq and him in a H2H series, I'd put money on Shaq. Russell has 11 titles, but he had 6 HOFers at his side MINIMUM. And the era vs. era argument comes into play. Magic- more titles, best PG ever, but he also had the Showtime Lakers around him. Bird- has less titles, less longevity, etc. but is considered better because of his impact on the game. Akeem and Duncan are routinely grouped around him, but there really isn't justification to put either above him.

So it comes back to the criteria. There were many players more skilled. There were better defenders, rebounders, scorers, etc. But there weren't many that were the total package (not Lex Luger). There was an analysis in some b-ball mag that had him at #4 recently. I personally have him at #7 if I look at it objectively.

Nice post.

colts18 wrote:1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Magic
4. Shaq
5. Wilt
6. Russell
7. Duncan
8. Olajuwon
9. Kobe
10. Bird

That is how I see it. You can't make a case for Shaq over Kareem.

So you're both a Colts and a Lakers fan, I presume?

Or is it just coincidence that you have Lakers ranked #2-5 and Celtics lower than just about anybody else on the planet has them?

No

RandomKnight wrote:No

This.

Sure, he has a case . . . but there are about 4 guys with stronger ones (MJ, Russell, Wilt, Kareem) and another 4 with cases about as strong (Duncan, Bird, Magic, Kobe) plus 4 more that have vaguely plausible arguments (Mikan, Hakeem, Dr. J, LeBron).

RandomKnight wrote:

RandomKnight wrote:No

This.

great contribution to the thread