Is There a Single Bulls Fan on Here Who Says D.Will > Rose?

Post #1 » by **Trader_Joe** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:37 pm

There are plenty of non-Bulls fans who rank D.Williams higher than D.Rose. Maybe 40% of the board from recent polls and discussions.

However, despite the large number (not necessarily high percentage) of neutral fans that rate D.Will higher, I don't think I've seen a single Bulls fan rate him higher than Rose, and there are plenty of Bulls fans here.

Are there any that rate D.Williams higher than D.Rose?

Is there a bias here?
What else could explain the large discrepancy?

tclg · Post #2 » by **tclg** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:17 pm

Perceptions change over time. Bulls fans see something special that fans of other teams dont get to see every night. And its a very legitimate position to take he just won the MVP award.

Copperhead · Post #3 » by **Copperhead** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:37 pm

tclg wrote:Perceptions change over time. Bulls fans see something special that fans of other teams dont get to see every night. And its a very legitimate position to take he just won the MVP award.

Can't the same can be said for fans of other teams/players? Those fans see something special that fans of other teams don't get to see every night. Fans of other teams may not get to see Rose every night and Bulls fans may not get to see other teams/players every night.

tclg · Post #4 » by **tclg** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:41 pm

Thats exactly true, In any ranking that we make there is going to be bias based on our observations and what we value more in a player

Gongxi · Post #5 » by **Gongxi** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 7:53 pm

Bulls fan here. I think Rose and DWill are on the same tier. Obviously, they have very different skill sets, which will make one more effective than another in different situations.

Here's the fun, though: Lots and lots of Bulls fans are also Illini fans, so the homer is just as strong for Williams as it is for Rose for many people. When it comes to homers, though, who gives a **** what they think?

kaulkhara15 · Post #6 » by **kaulkhara15** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:06 pm

How about asking this question to the Bulls board?

Fast Dont Fib · Post #7 » by **Fast Dont Fib** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:24 pm

Copperhead wrote:
tclg wrote:Perceptions change over time. Bulls fans see something special that fans of other teams dont get to see every night. And its a very legitimate position to take he just won the MVP award.

Can't the same can be said for fans of other teams/players? Those fans see something special that fans of other teams don't get to see every night. Fans of other teams may not get to see Rose every night and Bulls fans may not get to see other teams/players every night.

Which is exactly why i could probably make a thread asking if there are any Nets/non jaded Jazz fans that think Rose is better than Williams. Or if any NOH fan thinks Rose is better than Paul and the outcome would probably be the same. The OP was a nice attempt at calling out a fanbase though. Fans are fans, doesn't matter if you came out of a womb in Illinois, New York, or Utah.

As for my thoughts as a Bulls fan. I do still take Rose at this point, but i have little to no gripe if someone claims they take Williams. Mainly centering around the fact, that i know exactly how Rose affects my team. While very possible, i don't know if my team gets 62 gets wins last year with Williams instead of Rose.

Post #8 » by **Trader_Joe** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:34 pm

rsr38 wrote:
Copperhead wrote:
tclg wrote:Perceptions change over time. Bulls fans see something special that fans of other teams dont get to see every night. And its a very legitimate position to take he just won the MVP award.

Can't the same can be said for fans of other teams/players? Those fans see something special that fans of other teams don't get to see every night. Fans of other teams may not get to see Rose every night and Bulls fans may not get to see other teams/players every night.

Which is exactly why i could probably make a thread asking if there are any Nets/non jaded Jazz fans that think Rose is better than Williams. Or if any NOH fan thinks Rose is better than Paul and the outcome would probably be the same. The OP was a nice attempt at calling out a fanbase though. Fans are fans, doesn't matter if you came out of a womb in Illinois, New York, or Utah.

I think about 50% of Nets fans will tell you Rose is better.

I am one of them... depending on team, but in most instances I take Rose and have stated this.
-Younger
-No injuries
-Easier to build around vs. D.Williams easier to build with (if that makes sense)

And no it wasn't calling them out, it's trying to find if there is any objectivity out there.
After I saw Westbrook > D.Williams by Coldfish I couldn't figure out it he was sincere, crazy for driving the Rose agenda.

Bobbcats · Post #9 » by **Bobbcats** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:54 pm

I think about 50% of Nets fans will tell you Rose is better.

If half of even neutral fans thought Rose was better, why would you expect any Bulls fans to think DWill is better? This is a weird thread too because seems like most Bulls fans are also DWill fans because of college.

Post #10 » by **Trader_Joe** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 8:58 pm

Bobbcats wrote:
I think about 50% of Nets fans will tell you Rose is better.

If half of even neutral fans thought Rose was better, why would you expect any Bulls fans to think DWill is better? This is a weird thread too because seems like most Bulls fans are also DWill fans because of college.

If 30-40% of the general population thinks D.Will is better and 50% of say the Nets population think D.Rose is better..... why does 0-5% of Chicago think D.Will is better?

Just trying to both expose and quantify the "homeristic" effect.

cool007 · Post #11 » by **cool007** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:09 pm

Rose by a mile.

If you asked me this about a year ago, my choice would have been Deron over Rose.

The way Rose has been improving last 3 years, it's really uncanny.

If you as other teams fans are not convinced yet, you will. Just give it 1 more year. Rose is a kind of "New" commodity to the top 5-10 and lot of people just simply look at the Heat series and automatically put him down.

Anyway, like I said, give it a 1 more year and you other fans will start to believe it as well.

Gongxi · Post #12 » by **Gongxi** » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:12 pm

Your location lets us know that you're a real "rational actor".

bullsnewdynasty · Post #13 » by **bullsnewdynasty** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 4:16 am

cool007 wrote:If you as other teams fans are not convinced yet, you will. Just give it 1 more year. Rose is a kind of "New" commodity to the top 5-10 and lot of people just simply look at the Heat series and automatically put him down.

I agree with this. People want to give the benefit of the doubt to the "proven" guys who have established themselves there over multiple seasons. I see it all the time with people putting CP3 in their top 5 players and sometimes even Kobe. Not that there is anything wrong with that, as everyone has a right to an opinion. Some people are just hesitant to acknowledge an up and coming player by putting him ahead of these types of players. And also people have a lot of misconceptions about Rose. For example, it is annoying to read that some still think that Rose is a bad defender. Or just look at Boozer's stats and say that Rose isn't getting him involved or something. Wrong.

ChiCitySPORTS#1 · Post #14 » by **ChiCitySPORTS#1** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:52 am

Okay this is no longer an argument. Rose has surpassed deron easily this past season. Easily. This is not being a homer, this is fact. For crying out loud he was the damn MVP and he still gets trashed. You can have case with chris paul; Deron you cannot.

Gongxi · Post #15 » by **Gongxi** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 1:16 pm

Trashed?

boogydown · Post #16 » by **boogydown** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 5:19 pm

Rose will never leave Chicago. He is dedicated to the city and the fans. Talent wise is irrelevant at this point because they are so even it isn't worth comparing it to the other factors.

Post #17 » by **coldfish** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 10:39 pm

I'm a Bulls fan. This is one of those questions that I just don't get. I have absolutely no clue how people have DWill on the same level as Rose, let alone better than him.

DWill does two things better than Rose. He sets up the pick and roll better and he has better shot selection.

Outside of that, Rose is stronger, faster, the better defender, penetrator, rebounder, transition player, etc. When you watch them play head to head, they don't even look like they are in the same class. Remember, it was DRose's abuse of DWill that was the last straw for Sloan. I just don't get how people can compare the two. I just assume that people are mentally comparing a rookie Rose to DWill in his prime.

I'll just comment on one stat in particular. Rose had a 55.0%ts last year. People knock him for his efficiency all the time though. DWill, who people consider efficient, has a career 56.0%. He had one season, in 07/08, that was significantly above that.

JWiLL02 · Post #18 » by **JWiLL02** » Fri Aug 12, 2011 11:27 pm

Deron is a better PG than Rose, but Rose is a better player at this point.

Makes sense to me!

doctorfunk · Post #19 » by **doctorfunk** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 9:15 am

well Chicago fans are mostly blind Rose homers they are getting on pat with mj and kobe crowd, so I doubt there is more than 1% of bulls fans that would say that

i have no problems with people claiming Rose is better, but to me DWill is better player and Chicago would be better team with him. But difference isn't huge between em imo, they are in the same 2nd tier of best players in the world. So reasonably there should be a significant percent of chi fans saying that dwill has a case over Rose.

Post #20 » by **coldfish** » Sat Aug 13, 2011 11:07 am

doctorfunk wrote:well Chicago fans are mostly blind Rose homers they are getting on pat with mj and kobe crowd, so I doubt there is more than 1% of bulls fans that would say that

i have no problems with people claiming Rose is better, but to me DWill is better player and Chicago would be better team with him. But difference isn't huge between em imo, they are in the same 2nd tier of best players in the world. So reasonably there should be a significant percent of chi fans saying that dwill has a case over Rose.

Career high PER:
Rose 23.5
DWill 21.1

#of 60 win seasons
Rose 1
Dwill 0

#of MVP's
Rose 1
DWill 0

Given that the majority of the media subjectively thinks that Rose is a lot better, the primary advanced stat thinks Rose is a lot better and Rose has the all important "winner" tag, its a huge stretch to say that DWill is even on the same level. I have never seen a case as to why all those things are wrong and DWill is better other than Williams averaged two more assists per game.