RealGM

Criteria: Take into account both peak and career play, era dominance, impact on the game of basketball, and how well their style of play and skills would transcend onto different eras. To be more exact, how great they were at playing the game of basketball.

Voting Will End In 2 Days -- Please vote and nominate

Newest addition:

Tim Hardaway

1x 1st Team All-NBA
3x 2nd Team All-NBA
1x 3rd Team All-NBA
5x All-Star

Carmelo Anthony

1x All-NBA 2nd
3x All-NBA 3rd
4x All-Star


Jack Sikma

NBA Champion 1979
1x All-Defense 2nd
7x All-Star


Gus Williams

1x 1st team All-NBA
1x 2nd team All-NBA
NBA Champion 1979
2x All-Star

Bill Laimbeer

2x NBA Champion
4x All-Star


Mel Daniels

2x ABA MVP
4x 1st Team All-ABA
1x 2nd Team All-ABA
3x ABA Champion
ABA Rookie of the Year 1969
7x ABA All-Star


Brad Daugherty

1x NBA 3rd Team
5x All-Star


Larry Nance

1x NBA All-Def 1st team
2x NBA All-Def 2nd team
3x All-Star


Jerry Lucas

3x All-NBA 1st team
2x All-NBA 2nd team
1 NBA Championship 1973
Rookie of the Year 1964
7x All-Star

VOTE:

Lots of Bigs: Jerry Lucas and Brad Daugherty were high efficiency/weak defense bigs. Daugherty was a terrific post passer as well while Lucas had stretch the floor range, was one of the best rebounding forwards ever, and had great court intelligence. When their contemporaries were voting for HOF, Lucas went in over Willis Reed who didn't make the cut.

Larry Nance was high efficiency and good defense. Nance is the greatest non-center shotblocker of all time and the NBA's 1st dunk champion (over Dr. J among others) but didn't get many accolades in his day for whatever reason -- more than Elton Brand though.

Mel Daniels and Bill Laimbeer were winners and . . . well . . . thugs. Two of the most physical guys to ever play. Daniels was a 2 time MVP and 3 time champion in the ABA whose career was over by age 30. Laimbeer a 2 time champion whose dirty tricks and whining to the refs made him the most hated man in the NBA. Both terrific rebounders, Daniels scored up to 20/g usually from within 10 feet; Laimbeer scored a lot less but spread the floor with his range. Jack Sikma could also fit this spot though he wasn't as physical.

For pure scoring, you have Carmelo Anthony, a prototype scoring 3. At guard, Gus Williams was the leading scorer on a Seattle team that went to two finals, winning one title. Tim Hardaway is more the classic sparkplug guy with his crossover in Run TMC Warriors then with Zo in Miami.

By the numbers it's clearly Lucas. In terms of peak play, to me it's probably Daniels whose very good defense is complemented by a series of 20/15 seasons, 2 MVPs, and 3 titles in the ABA.

I will vote for MEL DANIELS

Point Guards -- Not strong right now
Lenny Wilkens
Dennis Johnson
Tony Parker
Norm Van Lier

Shooting Guards -- Dumars needs to go soon
Joe Dumars
Earl Monroe
Chris Mullin
Mitch Richmond
Paul Westphal?
Walter Davis?

Shooting Forward -- the other strong position
Shawn Marion
Cliff Hagan
Bob Dandridge
Jamaal Wilkes?
Willie Wise?

Power Forward -- Not sure how much to value Paul Silas/BuckWilliams/Bill Bridges types
Terry Cummings
Elton Brand
Amare Stoudamire
Paul Silas/Dave DeBusschere/Maurice Lucas/Buck Williams -- the bangers

Centers:
Neil Johnston -- accolades
Walt Bellamy -- statistical peak
Yao Ming -- the best modern center left

Looking at the candidates -- Joe Dumars and Shawn Marion are leading my short list. Can't see Richmond or Mullin over Dumars at guard or and Cummings is the best competition for Marion at forward. Yao didn't have any playoff impact with his injuries so 50's star Neil Johnston who is another great O, weak D kind of guy is the best center left and another 50s star, Cliff Hagan, was one of the few guys to consistently up his game in the playoffs.

NOMINATE Joe Dumars

Vote: Nance
Nominate: Dumars

vote: Laimbeer
nominate: DeBusschere - one of the best defensive forwards in history, look at his impact when he was injured or changed teams - he always helped defense they way Dumars never did.

DavidStern wrote:vote: Laimbeer
nominate: DeBusschere - one of the best defensive forwards in history, look at his impact when he was injured or changed teams - he always helped defense they way Dumars never did.

Dumars was also a very good offensive player. Debusschere, based on his stats, wasn't a good offensive player. He was generally a 15-17 ppg scorer (high pace) with horrible efficiency, even by 60's and 70's standards.

Vote: Daugherty
Nominate: Dumars

DavidStern . . . do any of these impact studies of yours (presumably in/out type) look at similar players to DeBusschere, specifically Paul Silas, Maurice Lucas, and Buck Williams?

Vote Sikma

Nominate Lou Hudson

vote: Daniels
nominate: DeBusschere

Vote: Sikma
Nominate: DeBusschere

Finding it really hard to get fully behind any of these guys.

Vote: Nance

Nominate: Dumars

Although I realize many arguments have been made before, it would be nice to get SOME discussion in this thread. I think this is the first time we haven't had a single intelligent comment made at all and not just JordansBulls voting without any attempt to justify it.

VOTE

Mel Daniels – penbeast0, Laimbeer

Larry Nance – therealbig3, Doctor MJ

Bill Laimbeer – DavidStern

Brad Daugherty -- JordansBulls

Jack Sikma – Dr Mufasa, ronnymac2, lukekarts


NOMINATE

Joe Dumars – penbeast0, therealbig3, Doctor MJ, JordansBulls

Dave DeBusschere – Laimbeer, DavidStern, lukekarts

Lou Hudson – Dr Mufasa

Amare Stoudamire – ronnymac2