The Lebron Thread

[bruddahmanmatt]

I'm so confused by his game right now. He has the size to get himself solid position down on the low block, but WTF are the people claiming he "has a post game" talking about? I damn near fell out of my chair when Broussard shot back in his defense with "improved post game? Check!" The only change I've really seen is an increase in willingness on his part to actually catch the ball with his back to the basket and back his man down, but being willing to play there and being capable of playing there are two completely different things and from the three quarters worth of Bball I saw today, his footwork is still pretty horrendous. FWIW it's something that takes time to develop, and anyone who thought he'd demonstrate a miraculous turnaround after spending half a week with Olajuwon was kidding themselves, but it's almost as if (to my eye anyway) there's been no improvement on his part at all in that department. Either I'm not seeing what others are seeing, or the folks claiming a "dramatic increase" in that area of his game are kidding themselves. Someone please tell me I'm not crazy.

[GreenHat]

No significant athletic decline. LeBron just isn't a clutch player on the biggest stage against quality teams.

I honestly wonder sometimes if you are just a troll account.

Did you even read the OP?

He gives several links that show just how clutch Lebron has been.

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/01/10/the-nbas-best-players-in-the-clutch-since-2003/
LeBron James. He’s on another planet. What’s so startling about his numbers and increased performance is that he’s already the best player in the league for the first 43 minutes of a game. He’s also the only one of the 15 players presented here who has no drop-off whatsoever in shooting. And that’s over a fairly decent sample: 1193 minutes total and 477 minutes for his three-year peak.

^^^Lebron was by far the most "clutch" player in that time period 03-11. He was much better than your boy and the best in the league over 8 years.

http://www.82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

^^^Hit the most game winning shots too.

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/02/03/clutch-play-since-2004-playoff-numbers/
Again, LeBron James comes out looking like Kal-El from Krypton. He and Carmelo Anthony are the only players to increase their shooting percentages down the stretch of close playoff games. Apparently, it’s impossible to shoot well in the playoffs. So much so that Kobe Bryant’s drop in eFG% of 5.6% over these six years is actually better than most of contemporaries.

LeBron somehow also ups his assists, which means from this group, only Steve Nash is setting the table as much at then end of close games. Nash bodes quite well, with per 36 minute averages of 22 points, 10 assists and 4 rebounds with an eFG% of 47% (second only to James). No surprises coming from perhaps the two best offensive players of the decade.

^^^Even in the playoffs on the "biggest stage" he comes out on top.

Seriously are you able to read or are you just bad at it? Or is math the issue here?

He loses one big series that he was supposed to win and all of a sudden that makes him not clutch for the rest of his life. Why don't you hold your idols (Bird and Dirk) to those same standards? They have both sucked in the playoffs and lost to inferior teams too.

I can't wait until the Heat win it all and you jump on the Heat bandwagon. It must have been tough for you to resist the Lakers for those two years.

[IG2]

I'll have to watch it again and really pay attention.

Well, I DVR'd the replay of the game on ESPN(2-4 am) and watched it this morning. I take back what I said about LeBron looking quick in the 4th qtr. With the exception of 1 drive, he still looked pretty clumsy(a hallmark for him now) and had no explosiveness once he got in the paint. The only positive thing I can say he's not as bad as last season.

Anyway, here's another blast from the past(2009). Just look at the explosion he puts on this drive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjOznE7I ... AA&t=13m1s

[Speedlot]

Man I have to stop hating this guy. Pretty soon this kinda of athleticism will be gone 4ever.

[See5]

I think this pretty normal though don't you all think?

Up to this point he's played more minutes than anyone ever has at his age. Even though he's fairly outsized at his position, he does take a beating through his style of play. He wasn't going to stay at his '07-09 level of athleticism forever. Not to mention the added weight he's put on since he got to Miami. He weighed in at 265 before this season and was probably closer to 275 last year.

He's still more athletic than 99% of the league. I don't think Kobe and Garnett were at their most athletic at 27, but they were at their peak just like LBJ is now.

[SideshowBob]

I'll have to watch it again and really pay attention.

Well, I DVR'd the replay of the game on ESPN(2-4 am) and watched it this morning. I take back what I said about LeBron looking quick in the 4th qtr. With the exception of 1 drive, he still looked pretty clumsy(a hallmark for him now) and had no explosiveness once he got in the paint. The only positive thing I can say he's not as bad as last season.

Anyway, here's another blast from the past(2009). Just look at the explosion he puts on this drive - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NjOznE7I ... AA&t=13m1s

Haven't been on the PC board for a while but yeah, I'm taking the same things from the game as you are. He looked better than he has in Miami, but when he attempts to penetrate he looks, as you said, clumsy. This is still alright, but the biggest thing to me is that he just can't finish anymore. He got bailed out in that game because of the calls, but considering the amount of times he got to the basket, I would've expected him to at least make a field goal.

In the Denver game he was back to attacking with his jumper, and he looked pretty solid. The three point shot finally returned, and I'm glad he's willing to take it. What I don't get is why he doesn't try to set himself up for 1 or 2 good looks from out there, rather than just taking them contested out of the flow of the offense.

Last night's game looked solid on the stat sheet, but once again we saw the same issue. First quarter he went 1-6, mostly attacking and failing to finish (I'll admit, this wasn't his luckiest game, he was missing some really easy shots). Goes 11/15 for the rest of the game once he starts to set up his jumpshot and plays off of that instead. Didn't really score in the fourth because he didn't need to and played all of 2 minutes.

[7-Day Dray]

I agree with the significant loss of athleticism. I basically agree with everything IG2 has posted.

In the game vs. SA lst night, it was same story, just a different day. In the 1st half, he looked real passive. Fo the most part, he was just standing around, and would occasionally try to find cracks in the D and get open off the ball. You can tell he's not really confident in his ability to get to the hole. There were a FEW times he got into the lane, but they were off of picks from what I remember, and he had no acceleration.

In the 2nd half, he caught on fire and his 3-point shot was going in every time. But I don't remember seeing him drive the whole 2nd half. Settling for jumpshots isn't a winning formula, and won't work consistently in the playoffs. His jumper has been on point so far, but don't forget that his jumper also looked real good last year and in the playoffs up until the playoffs. He's not going to be on fire from mid-range every game, and definitely not in the Finals. That's why I'm basically taking everything he does in the regular season with a grain of salt.

I would definitely take Kobe, Rose, KD, and Melo to close out a game in the 4th over him. In every close game of the 4th quarter this year so far, LeBron has froze up because defensive really start to key in on you, and LeBron no longer has the game-changing athleticism to take over a game from a sheer physical standpoint. His athleticism (1st step, agility, leaping ability) has all diminished.

[SideshowBob]

I'll give him this though. Last night, he had all of ZERO points on the break. Had a couple of transition threes, but everything else came in the half court, which is a good sign.

On the other hand, WTF is up with his FT shooting? He went from 80% through the first 9 games to 54% on 12.3 attempts per game in the last three. He has bad nights at the line, but I've never seen him be this abysmal from the line for this many attempts.

[SideshowBob]

http://bkref.com/tiny/4jWfb

Definitely an anomaly. Last time this happened was back in January 08

[toodles23]

I don't think you can really take much away from the Spurs game, Lebron simply got hot and started raining deep, difficult jumpers. It was vintage Lebron heat check mode, but unfortunately, it's not a recipe for long term success.

http://bkref.com/tiny/4jWfb

Definitely an anomaly. Last time this happened was back in January 08

His FT stroke looks broken right now, but he's too good of a shooter at this point to not maintain mid 70s at the line. I think he'll figure it out sooner rather than later. His stroke was looking really good for a while, but his rhythm was off in the Clippers game and his form/confidence has deteriorated since then.

[SideshowBob]

He kept his form consistent for all of 8 or 9 games, then changed it in the middle of that Clippers game when he started struggling at the line. Now he's back to what we saw in the second half of last year, and its likely that he'll go into the change form every other night mode. I think he needs to understand that consistency at the line is one of the biggest factors, and the reason he got off to a good start was because he wasn't changing up what was a decent form.

As for the jumpers, the threes were definitely a product of him being on fire, but the other shots he was taking were not.

He went 5-8 from 10-23 feet. That's a bit on the high side, but I don't think it would be bad for him to take 10-12 shots from that range a night. He's going to be in the 42-46% range on those and on that volume, that's elite. He needs to build his game off of that, because those are the shots he can get in the half court now, rather than trying to play off his driving game, which looks like a struggle on most nights.

[IG2]

One thing I will say about LeBron last night, he looked very fluid off-the-dribble. He wasn't explosive(as exemplified by the blown layups), but I liked how much at ease he looked with the ball. Even effectively beat guys off-the-dribble every now and then, which is always good. Now, some people will attribute this to the extra room he now has w/o Wade to play his old style, but LeBron's played w/o Wade quite a few times over the last 2 seasons, and he didn't look anything like last night in them. Even as recently as games against GS and LAC, Miami put him at the top and gave him a pick to get him going, and he looked awful. So whatever was going on last night, I hope it will continue.

[toodles23]

One thing I will say about LeBron last night, he looked very fluid off-the-dribble. He wasn't explosive(as exemplified by the blown layups), but I liked how much at ease he looked with the ball. Even effectively beat guys off-the-dribble every now and then, which is always good. Now, some people will attribute this to the extra room he now has w/o Wade to play his old style, but LeBron's played w/o Wade quite a few times over the last 2 seasons, and he didn't look anything like last night in them. Even as recently as games against GS and LAC, Miami put him at the top and gave him a pick to get him going, and he looked awful. So whatever was going on last night, I hope it will continue.

I'd need to rewatch the game, but he was looking to set up his 10-15 foot midrange jumper a lot last night rather than trying to get to the hoop, which could explain why he looked so much more comfortable with his dribble. With his current body and skillset, that's what he should be looking to do most of the time - if the defender tries to take that away, that's when he can get to the basket.

[SideshowBob]

I'd need to rewatch the game, but he was looking to set up his 10-15 foot midrange jumper a lot last night rather than trying to get to the hoop, which could explain why he looked so much more comfortable with his dribble. With his current body and skillset, that's what he should be looking to do most of the time - if the defender tries to take that away, that's when he can get to the basket.

+1 Exactly. This is how I want to see him play. Take the occasional 20 footer and maybe a 3, get to the rim when you can, but center your game around that 10-17 ft jumper. There's so many positives out of that shot.

First, he now hits it at a ridiculous clip. In the second half of last year, he shot 2 of them per game and made em at a 55% clip. This year, he's down to 1.3 a game, but is still making 50% of them. Obviously that number won't hold, especially if he brings his volume up, but hitting those at a 44-46% rate is great, and it will open everything else up for him.

Second, no long rebounds to start a fast break for the opposing team. Also, greater opportunity for an offensive rebound.

Third, he needs to incorporate that shot into whatever sort of post-game he's developing, which hasn't really impressed me at all in the last couple of weeks. He showed signs of diversifying in the preseason games and the first week and a half of the season. He was taking a lot of 10-15 footers, and setting them up in the post, but he's moved away from that.

[IG2]

Here are LeBron's highlights from last night [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfIa_d1XTZQ&feature=plcp&context=C329bd32UDOEgsToPDskKPL0Nac6pybBb6iY_KH2PR[/youtube]
Tell me what you guys think.

[Bodhi]

Here are LeBron's highlights from last night [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfIa_d1XTZQ&feature=plcp&context=C329bd32UDOEgsToPDskKPL0Nac6pybBb6iY_KH2PR[/youtube]
Tell me what you guys think.

Did anyone catch the Kobe face at about 3:07?

[toodles23]

Here are LeBron's highlights from last night [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfIa_d1XTZQ&feature=plcp&context=C329bd32UDOEgsToPDskKPL0Nac6pybBb6iY_KH2PR[/youtube]
Tell me what you guys think.

Looked to me like San Antonio did a poor job defending the pick and roll in a lot of instances. The screener's man wasn't hedging, which allowed Lebron space to build up a head of steam going to the basket or to set up his midrange jumper. To the credit of the Heat, they recognized the weakness and attacked it, but they aren't always going to be defended that way. Teams who do the best job on Lebron have the screener's man come out high and force him out onto the perimeter.

[SideshowBob]

Thoughts on tonight guys?

Looked like the same story. I'll stress that Lebron is currently at his best when he works at setting up his close to mid range shot and mixes it in with good looks he can get at the basket

EDIT: I'm thinking of just changing the thread title, because this looks like its turning into the nightly discuss Lebron's play thread

[IG2]

Thoughts on tonight guys?

Looked like the same story.

Yep . Tonight's game was a showcase for LeBron's regressed acceleration and explosiveness in the paint. Layups off his own dribble is a major struggle for him. The very last one blocked by Bynum was painful to watch. This is why I think he'll continue to struggle at the end of games. He likes to attack the basket when the pressure builds and he's just not a slasher anymore.

I'll stress that Lebron is currently at his best when he works at setting up his close to mid range shot and mixes it in with good looks he can get at the basket

10-15 footers is a lot tougher to master than jumpers beyond that. I don't think LeBron has the body balance required to be a good shooter from there if his volume increases. I'm more than cool with him taking the majority of his shots from 16-23 feet. He can create them easily and is very accurate to boot.

[SideshowBob]

Yep . Tonight's game was a showcase for LeBron's regressed acceleration and explosiveness in the paint. Layups off his own dribble is a major struggle for him.

Definitely. But despite that I still think he's the best in the league, which I know you disagree with

The very last one blocked by Bynum was painful to watch. This is why I think he'll continue to struggle at the end of games. He likes to attack the basket when the pressure builds and he's just not a slasher anymore.

To be fair though, through 13 games he's being blocked at the lowest rate in the past 5 seasons, as indicated by hoopdata, and verified by checking the box scores myself. On the flip side, those don't tell the entire story; not only does he still not get to the rim as easily as he did in 08-10, he just doesn't have the explosiveness when he finishes, and it continued to be on display tonight, as you said.

10-15 footers is a lot tougher to master than jumpers beyond that. I don't think LeBron has the body balance required to be a good shooter from there if his volume increases. I'm more than cool with him taking the majority of his shots from 16-23 feet. He can create them easily and is very accurate to boot.

Certainly it is tougher, and I think he can continue to work on it, but those jumpshots just have so many more positives than the 16-23 footers, and can easily be incorporated into a mid-post arsenal that would suit Lebron's preference to avoid banging down low.

On the other hand, it's mainly the 20-22 footers I have an issue with. If he can restrict himself to not taking any of those, and just stick to a couple threes and the closer 15-20 foot shots, I'd be a bit more satisfied. The biggest thing is confidence. Say what you want about him wanting to attack in pressure situations, he looked just a tad bit more comfortable shooting jumpers tonight late in the 4th (albeit the score wasnt THAT close). At least it's a start.