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Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:40 pm
by rrravenred
A comment by Colts18 in one of the popping-up-like-mushrooms Shaq threads made me think. He said that Ben Wallace in 2004 was the best defensive season for an individual player ever. My immediate response was "Yeah, nice, but surely not the best".
So what do you think? Who had the most defensive impact ever in a single season?
Notes:
Defense is a team exercise, but this isn't a team award. Think about the team environment a player operated in and how crucial their role was within it.
Defense isn't steals, blocks and defensive rebounds. Think holistically.
Defense isn't All-D selections (Hi Kobe!) or DPOYs (Hi Timmy D!). Impact isn't best captured by rep.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:46 pm
by Black Feet
Hakeem 94, talk about stiff competition.
Edit -
1994 DPOY Voting
1. Hakeem Olajuwon - 23 votes
2. David Robinson - 22 Votes
3. Dikembe Mutombo - 19 Votes
Scottie Pippen finished 4th, and Charles Oakley, Gary Payton, Nate McMillan, Mookie Blaylock, Dennis Rodman, and Horace Grant all received 1st place
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:53 pm
by bastillon
in terms of domination relative to league average:
1. Bill Russell 1964
2. Hakeem Olajuwon 1990
3. Ben Wallace 2004
HMs: KG 2004, Duncan 2003, Pippen 1994, Eaton 1986, D-Rob 1992, Artest 2004, Wilt 1964.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 10:55 pm
by Mo26
Too bad the majority of Kobe's All-D teams have been fully deserving. lol @ making 6 straight All-D teams because of rep.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 11:07 pm
by ThaRegul8r
I was going to mention Russell's '64, but I see bastillon's already beat me to it.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 11:26 pm
by rrravenred
Mo26 wrote:Too bad the majority of Kobe's All-D teams have been fully deserving. lol @ making 6 straight All-D teams because of rep.
Never said anything different. I was making the point that Kobe has
NOT deserved some of them.
You know, not being totally defensive all the time is quite an endearing trait. Maybe you should try it sometime.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Mon Jun 4, 2012 11:28 pm
by JingoWolf
92 David Robinson would be one of my top choices.
Easily better then any season from Big Ben.
Big Ben was a great defender but...
Peak Hakeem, Robinson, Russell, Mutombo and probably a few others would all be over him in my book.
I'll make a list later and post it.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:00 am
by Doctor MJ
ThaRegul8r wrote:I was going to mention Russell's '64, but I see bastillon's already beat me to it.
Hard for me to imagine a real debate here. That is the clear #1, the debate begins after that.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:28 am
by Krodis
The Top 5 is probably 5 of Russell's seasons >.>
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:30 am
by colts18
Dwight Howard's 09 and 12 seasons have to be up there. Here are the numbers for this season when he missed games.
With Howard: 102.22 D rating
W/o Howard: 113.88 D rating
11.66 Difference
With Howard they would have been 9th place defensively, without him they are 3.6 points worse than the current last place defense (Bobcats). So they would easily be the worst defensive team without him. Not to mention that the average offense they faced was below average in that span.
Other stats:
With: 92.2 PPG, 43.8 FG%, 46.6 2P%, 41.7 reb
W/0: 100.1 PPG, 50.5 FG%, 54.2 2P%, 39.7 reb
Diff: 7.9 PPG, 6.7 FG%, 7.7 2P%, 2.0 reb, 6.8 TS%
In the playoffs they gave up a 107 D rating to the Pacers. That same Pacers team then scored a 99 O rating in the next round. An 8 point difference
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:31 am
by ahonui06
Any of Bill Russell's 13 seasons will suffice.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:33 am
by ElGee
Russell probably has the top 5. My gut, if we exclude Russell, is a Nate Thurmond season.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 12:33 am
by colts18
Here is Robinson's 92 season. The Spurs finished #1 in D rating. More amazing was that they did that despite Robinson missing the last 14 games of the season.
-68 G played: 102.6 D rating, 70.4 Dreb%, .512 TS%, +4.7 MOV
-14 G missed: 111.6 D rating (-9 D rating drop), 65.6 Dreb%, .534 TS% (2.2 TS% drop), -3.3 MOV (+8 with Robinson than without)
+9 D rating difference, -4.8 Dreb%, +2.2 TS%, +8 MOV
-Playoffs w/o Drob: 119.6 D rating, 63.2 Dreb%, .578 TS%, -9 MOV
As you can see, the team collapsed massively with almost all of it due to the team’s defense. The team went from -6.6 from the league average (this year’s Bulls level) with Robinson to being +3.4 from the league average which is 2nd to last. So Robinson was the difference between a dominant #1 finish and the 2nd worst defense in the league
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 1:59 am
by JingoWolf
colts18 wrote:Here is Robinson's 92 season. The Spurs finished #1 in D rating. More amazing was that they did that despite Robinson missing the last 14 games of the season.
-68 G played: 102.6 D rating, 70.4 Dreb%, .512 TS%, +4.7 MOV
-14 G missed: 111.6 D rating (-9 D rating drop), 65.6 Dreb%, .534 TS% (2.2 TS% drop), -3.3 MOV (+8 with Robinson than without)
+9 D rating difference, -4.8 Dreb%, +2.2 TS%, +8 MOV
-Playoffs w/o Drob: 119.6 D rating, 63.2 Dreb%, .578 TS%, -9 MOV
As you can see, the team collapsed massively with almost all of it due to the team’s defense. The team went from -6.6 from the league average (this year’s Bulls level) with Robinson to being +3.4 from the league average which is 2nd to last. So Robinson was the difference between a dominant #1 finish and the 2nd worst defense in the league
Cool stuff, appreciate the breakdowns.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:11 am
by penbeast0
But can you really give best defensive season ever to a guy who was injured for the playoffs where his team's defense collapsed?
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:18 am
by JingoWolf
penbeast0 wrote:But can you really give best defensive season ever to a guy who was injured for the playoffs where his team's defense collapsed?
You can argue that while healthy he was the best defender or was having GOAT defensive impact.
I don't think it matters if he missed games etc... if you can prove/show how good he was defensively prior or that.
Depends on the criteria you're using I guess.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:28 am
by penbeast0
I think playoffs have bearing if you are looking at GOAT defensive impact ever . . . they are an important part of a season.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 2:29 am
by penbeast0
penbeast0 wrote:Pre=injury DRob was one of the all-time greats. I'd take him over Hakeem for regular season impact but I think playoffs have bearing if you are looking at GOAT defensive impact ever . . . they are an important part of a season.
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 3:00 am
by Doormatt
why would you ignore injuries and time missed? is that not part of the game? does that not effect your team? and isnt that whats most important, how you effect your team?
Re: Best defensive season ever
Posted: Tue Jun 5, 2012 3:28 am
by JingoWolf
Doormatt wrote:why would you ignore injuries and time missed? is that not part of the game? does that not effect your team? and isnt that whats most important, how you effect your team?
Because, lets say.
Player A has a defensive impact of 15 prior to his injury and plays 75 regular season games.
Player B has a defensive impact of 10 but plays the entire season + playoffs.
Player A for those 75 teams was still a superior defender to Player B irregardless that he played less games.
Now... if your criteria is total impact over an entire season and not just literal ability when healthy then you'd probably give to it to someone who got deep into the playoffs and made the Finals.