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It was his 1963 season. The closest in recent times was LeBron's 31.67 in 2009. Do you think that LeBron or Durant could approach this mark again for an entire season .T here's probably no one else who could even think about it. Unless Anthony Davis turns out to be KG on steroids (KG managed 29.4 in his '04 season. Combination of his rebounding, passing and good steals/blocks nos.)

Not Durant. Maybe Lebron in one year when Wade is painfully decline and Bosh is playing worse......he could take things into his own hands ala 09 but hes a lot more knowledgeable and smarter now.

I don't see Lebron being better, at least numbers wise, than he was in 09, and I don't see anyone else who can come close to that kind of production, so right now, yeah it is.

Obviously, some time in the future, it could be broken, but it's hard to imagine a player as statistically dominant as Wilt or Lebron coming along anytime soon.

LeBron already had a higher PER in 2009 if you look at regular season and playoffs combined.

32.58 by my calculations

Wilts Per was actually higher than that but we don't have offensive rebounds, block and steals stats to include it.

Nope Wilt is the greatest statpadder of all time.

Lebron's the only current player with a chance to do it, but I'd say he doesn't. His team is too good, and Lebron's not quite as good as he was in '09.

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Wilts Per was actually higher than that but we don't have offensive rebounds, block and steals stats to include it.

Wilt was a high turnover player, so no, we can't say that.

It depends. Right now the advantage players have is they know what PER is and they know how close they are to those numbers.

toodles23 wrote:Lebron's the only current player with a chance to do it, but I'd say he doesn't. His team is too good, and Lebron's not quite as good as he was in '09.

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Wilts Per was actually higher than that but we don't have offensive rebounds, block and steals stats to include it.

Wilt was a high turnover player, so no, we can't say that.

Yes we can say that. Imagine how many blocks and o boards he was getting a game. Even if he was averaging 4 turnovers a game, his per would go up

Lebron was at 32 PER for a large part of this season so he def has a chance. No one else realistically right now.

HAHA @ the thought of Anthony Davis resembling KG in anyway outside lankiness. The dude is like 2 inches shorter with a much shorter standing reach.

lerbon was putting up a higher per for most of this year. if lebron can turn those turnovers down he can do it. Lebron will also be averaging more rebound from now on with a slight dip in assists so who knows. ultimately if he keep his fg % he can possibl;y do it but i doubt it. Either way if lebron can't do it there no current crop of player in the league that can. Durant doesn thave the overall ability, kobe per always sucks, wades declining, howard maybe, cp can possibly, after that there is none really. Maybe if rondo can find an efficient scoring game?

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:

toodles23 wrote:Lebron's the only current player with a chance to do it, but I'd say he doesn't. His team is too good, and Lebron's not quite as good as he was in '09.

TheKingOfVa360 wrote:Wilts Per was actually higher than that but we don't have offensive rebounds, block and steals stats to include it.

Wilt was a high turnover player, so no, we can't say that.

Yes we can say that. Imagine how many blocks and o boards he was getting a game. Even if be was averaging 4 turnovers a game, his per would go up

I really doubt that Wilt was only averaging four a game when he was taking forty shots a game and known for being turnover prone

ardee wrote:It was his 1963 season. The closest in recent times was LeBron's 31.67 in 2009. Do you think that LeBron or Durant could approach this mark again for an entire season .T here's probably no one else who could even think about it. Unless Anthony Davis turns out to be KG on steroids (KG managed 29.4 in his '04 season. Combination of his rebounding, passing and good steals/blocks nos.)

Weird question. If LeBron can get within 0.17 of the record, it's quite clearly breakable. Though I will say I don't see anyone on the horizon who is close besides LeBron. Durant is just not that level of player, and even if Davis is as good as LeBron, the stat will underrate him something awful by its very nature.

Also should be noted that Wilt's PER is not based on complete data. His actual unknown PER might actually be unbeatable...or it might be lower than LeBron.

turnover prone

Wilt was a high turnover player

Where exactly did this BS myth originate from?

Chet Walker Interview 2012


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uxvd02zw_SI&t=1m30s


"He made the game much easier for all of his teammates."

Dipper 13 wrote:

turnover prone

Wilt was a high turnover player

Where exactly did this BS myth originate from?

I'd be interested if you have any detailed articles along these lines.

From what I've gleaned, it seems pretty hard to fathom that he didn't commit a good amount of turnovers. We know for example that when his team was fixated on getting him the ball to volume score his teammates shot well below their capabilities. Hard to imagine then that this didn't involve struggles in the process of Wilt getting the ball out to his teammates when the defense collapsed on him, and naturally, if that was an issue, there would be turnovers along the way.

Wilt also had certain habits that were not good on this front. The tendency to palm the ball away from the man guarding him and move it all about so as to (presumably) bewilder the defender made it very possible for other members of the defense to knock the ball out of his hands. Frankly, when I first saw Wilt do this, I couldn't stop shaking my head at how bad of an idea it was, and I really can't imagine that some contemporary observers weren't thinking the same thing.

When was PER even known as far as a statistic? Because on BBall reference it didn't show up until around 2006.

I'd be interested if you have any detailed articles along these lines.

No, there are almost no article even mentioning the turnovers, steals, giveaways, etc. I can see that there would be fair number of TO's in attempting to forcefeed him down low, but the patience he demonstrated with the 76ers appears to show low risk passes, where the players would be cutting by him & he would basically put the ball in their chest or hands from a close distance.

An example of his patience below shows two fake passes followed by a power move to the basket, drawing four defenders and finding an open Billy C. We can also see the defensive players with their hands up denying the active cutters. If he forced the first pass or two then it would likely be a turnover.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x48zv5 (4:30 mark)

But it wasn't as much ball faking as it was to protect it from the defense, also with his beautiful hand offs. No center except perhaps Walton/Russell was ever better at hitting the cutters from the pivot. You may be thinking too much of 1970 playoffs, when his mobility was Bynum-esque, having just come off career a threatening knee injury. He was nowhere near the scoring threat he was in his younger years & therefore more predictable on offense. Plus NY was playing off him a bit. A player like Wilt who relied a lot on his physical power & floor positioning preferred to feel the defender on him in the pivot, so he could better read & react due to his lack of a faceup game. Despite being a stationary pivot for the most part even in Philly, he was great at moving from one side of the lane to the other as the ball swung on the perimeter. With the Lakers I have never seen him that active on offense.


There was also a video which Youtube has since deleted showing Walker, Greer, & Wilt in a triangle setup where the Bullets defense dictated the Sixers passes. Greer had the ball & saw Walker's man was sagging back so he passed to Walker, who's man thus comes up while Greer's man sags. So Walker hits Wilt who makes a two handed touch pass back to Greer for the open shot. It doesn't seem Wilt drew very many double teams due to the constant player movement. I am also assuming that a fair number of his points during the early high scoring Warriors years came in transition as a finisher (primarily from Guy Rodgers) thus inflating his regular season average & overstating his alleged playoff decline (where naturally the game would slow down & there would be less possessions).

Based on some of the game footage I have seen:

1967 Playoffs vs Celtics (2nd half only)

24 Halfcourt Touches for Wilt
4 assists for Wilt
1 turnover for Wilt
56 offense possessions for team


By all accounts this (Gm. 4) was a very lethargic & inefficient game played by the Sixers compared to their usual standard. Even if we assume that they played their worst game for every single night of the season, the above stats suggest that Wilt averaged roughly 8 assists per game that year (which is true), & only 2 turnovers. An average of 8 assists & only 2 turnovers is excellent for a big man.

ardee wrote:It was his 1963 season. The closest in recent times was LeBron's 31.67 in 2009. Do you think that LeBron or Durant could approach this mark again for an entire season .T here's probably no one else who could even think about it. Unless Anthony Davis turns out to be KG on steroids (KG managed 29.4 in his '04 season. Combination of his rebounding, passing and good steals/blocks nos.)

i hate overrated players. i try hard not to hate anthony davis, but the notion that he could break wilt's 31.84 per record makes it hard not to.