Past their prime and on the significant decline?

Chosen01 · Post #21 » by **Chosen01** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:35 pm

Brooklyn718 wrote:
green font? or are you speaking from the heart?

Speaking from the heart! Look at his PER 36 numbers from last year(2010-2011) to this year(or 2011-2012 season).

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... edw01.html

whocurrz · Post #22 » by **whocurrz** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:36 pm

Why does everyone think Amare is on a huge decline? He had some injuries last year, but that was in a condensed season where lots of guys missed time. I think it's more that he has become a 2nd scoring option than anything as he was one of the league leaders in scoring (with Felton as the PG) for the Knicks until Melo arrived.

Calvin Klein · Post #23 » by **Calvin Klein** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:37 pm

I don't see how Scola is on the decline. His numbers were down last season but he is still as good as ever. He does not relies on athleticism at all.

Kobeskillz · Post #24 » by **Kobeskillz** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:45 pm

mr_sunshine wrote:
bullsnewdynasty wrote:
Chosen01 wrote:You forgot Wade OP!

I know you're not being serious but it is true that Wade is no longer in his athletic prime.

I mean gosh! Only 22/5/5 playing along side the MVP and #3 in PER? Clearly a scrub.

Well is below his avg. so hopefully it was an off year because at 31 he is still young enough. Though his game is different then say a Paul Pierce or Kobe.

dballislife · Post #25 » by **dballislife** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:46 pm

pierce and kg are on but slowly, but i do expect pierce to take a step
joe johnson might be soon
jamal crossover has started
g wallace is getting there
caron and billups are on a downhill slope and not slowing down
david west isn't who he was
barbosa too

Muggsy Bogues · Post #26 » by **Muggsy Bogues** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:47 pm

whocurrz wrote:Why does everyone think Amare is on a huge decline? He had some injuries last year, but that was in a condensed season where lots of guys missed time. I think it's more that he has become a 2nd scoring option than anything as he was one of the league leaders in scoring (with Felton as the PG) for the Knicks until Melo arrived.

Because his athleticism only comes in spurts and his shooting touch seems to have deserted him. Also, lots of injuries.

GregOden · Post #27 » by **GregOden** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 9:50 pm

Ra$hard Lewis fell off like a rock.

nuposse04 · Post #28 » by **nuposse04** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:00 pm

Depends on the role of said player, I don't think Wade nor Kobe alone could be THE guy on a team to lead a franchise to a contender role. Kobe still scores like he's the man but my guess is that if he wants another ring he'll have to take a back seat to Dwight. They're both very productive players, but considering what their best years showed (I'm assuming we won't see prime Wade again although he isn't ancient yet), their best years are behind them.

Players that probably will begin to drop off:
Z-Bo (love the player but I think M. Gasol needs more touches down low than him)
Pierce
Joe Johnson
Reggie Evans (especially with new flopping enforcement)
Jason Terry

Post #29 » by **MagicMadness** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:03 pm

I don't think Nelson is in significant decline.

Post all-star break he averaged 14.3ppg/6.1ast on 44% shooting.

Not coincidentally, his play picked up once the Dwight saga was over (at the time), and on through Dwight's injury when Dwight was out of sight/out of mind. It was the first half of the season that Nelson looked terrible.

He should be fine next season, assuming he continues to play at a normal level. He is currently 30 years old, but played four years of college - so has less mileage than most players. However, injuries scattered throughout his career have probably evened things out considerably. My guess? Two seasons, and then he becomes a back-up PG.

NJ_YANKEE_45 · Post #30 » by **NJ_YANKEE_45** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 10:07 pm

Wade
Kobe
Garnett
Pierce
Allen
Duncan

FullCircle · Post #31 » by **FullCircle** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:15 pm

Floydnd24 wrote:
drejeronfire wrote:
LApwnd wrote:Boozer

I had Boozer originally but has he really declined that much or is it just that he's in another system with a point that prefers to isolate rather than run the pick-and-roll?

Kobe won't be past his prime until he is 36.

Dude, he's been past his prime for the last two years.

dballislife · Post #32 » by **dballislife** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:37 pm

i wouldn't call what kobe is doing right now past his prime, look at ray allen, timmy, kg, vc, thats past their prime

Catchall · Post #33 » by **Catchall** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 11:48 pm

Jazz fan no longer scared of Kobe....

Add to your list....

Josh Howard
Brandon Roy
Nene
Elton Brand
Lamar Odom

Oh, and Ben Wallace if he's still around.

yoadknux · Post #34 » by **yoadknux** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:04 am

Granger

TwentyOne920 · Post #35 » by **TwentyOne920** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:21 am

dballislife wrote:i wouldn't call what kobe is doing right now past his prime, look at ray allen, timmy, kg, vc, thats past their prime

Dunno about Allen, his 3p% went up.

Duncan/Garnett have declined but still post amazing per 36 numbers; their respective coaches just know not to run them into the ground in the regular season. It helps that they have younger guys to take off their load, too.

Post #36 » by **Froob** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:23 am

Ray Allen was and then he joined the heat and now he's an allstar again.

drejeronfire · Post #37 » by **drejeronfire** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:24 am

Calvin Klein wrote:I don't see how Scola is on the decline. His numbers were down last season but he is still as good as ever. He does not relies on athleticism at all.

His scoring efficiency and rebounding have dropped for 4 consecutive seasons... Maybe easing him into a smaller role will help him improve upon those areas? I don't know.

What I meant to ask in the OP was:

1. Are these players past their prime?
2. Are they significantly declining?

With Scola he's most certainly past his prime. I think for the reasons I outlined above you could debate whether he's significantly declining or not... I personally am leaning more towards him being on the significant decline than not.

whocurrz · Post #38 » by **whocurrz** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:28 am

Muggsy Bogues wrote:
whocurrz wrote:Why does everyone think Amare is on a huge decline? He had some injuries last year, but that was in a condensed season where lots of guys missed time. I think it's more that he has become a 2nd scoring option than anything as he was one of the league leaders in scoring (with Felton as the PG) for the Knicks until Melo arrived.

Because his athleticism only comes in spurts and his shooting touch seems to have deserted him. Also, lots of injuries.

Athleticism is a legitimate concern, but lets not pretend like it's declined a lot since he signed with the Knicks. And when getting lots of touches, his shooting percentages seemed fine less than 2 years ago. I think playing with Melo is just a bad fit, which is unfortunate for him because I don't see another team touching that contract.

His injuries haven't been repetitive either. His knees have been fine recently and he had a small back problem that didn't even require surgery.

final · Post #39 » by **final** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:28 am

Kobe has been past his prime for a few years already. People think "past their prime" means they go on to the irrelevant pile, that is not the case. Players like Kobe, KG, Ray, Duncan, etc are still better than most players in the league in what they do, just the level of greatness has declined and some aspects of their games go away.

But I don't think this topic is based on those players of course they are past their primes (they got into the league in the 90s).

Out of the super stars I would say Wade has declined, got into the league late (compared to other stars james, melo, Bosh) and had to be the guy for his team. For being a small player, he had to exert lots of athleticism to dominate and do lots of things for his team. Amare is another star I think is in decline (injuries and playing on the knicks).

TwentyOne920 · Post #40 » by **TwentyOne920** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 12:30 am

final wrote:Kobe has been past his prime for a few years already. People think "past their prime" means they go on to the irrelevant pile, that is not the case. Players like Kobe, KG, Ray, Duncan, etc are still better than most players in the league in what they do, just the level of greatness has declined and some aspects of their games go away.

But I don't think this topic is based on those players of course they are past their primes (they got into the league in the 90s).

Out of the super stars I would say Wade has declined, got into the league late and had to be the guy for his team. For being a small player, he had to exert lots of athleticism to dominate and do lots of things for his team. Amare is another star I think is in decline (injuries and playing on the knicks).

Wade also didn't develop a jumpshot which forced him to stay a slasher, and slashers are typically beset by injuries (see Gerald Wallace or Manu Ginobili).