RealGM

Who've you got? I originally had Garnett 11th or 12th on my peaks list but I've been a bit confused lately, it's looking less impressive to me. He basically has the insane plus/minus numbers as his major point, but this is the same stat that had Shaq had -0.3/100 in the '01 POs.

I'm not sure which year to use as Kobe's peak, it's between '01, '06, '07, '08 and '09. I don't like '03 all that much for the Playoffs, which is one of the reasons I'm also a little down on KG recently, except in '03 of course. I understand most people think KG is a GOAT level peak on this board, but for the knowledgeable posters whom I know rank Kobe's peak pretty high, like top 10-12 high, what's your take on this?

To me it's kobe Bryant. What it comes down to for me is that I value what Bryant gives me as an all time offensive player and anchor over what KG gives you as an all time defensive player an anchor. Plus I trust him more in the playoffs to carry me if my team needs it

04/08 KG is better than any form of Kobe.

But, Kobe's "other peaks", such as 03, 06, 08, or whatever, are better than any other form of KG.

GetItDone wrote:03/08 KG is better than any form of Kobe.

But, Kobe's "other peaks", such as 03, 06, 08, or whatever, are better than any other form of KG.

What about 04 kg? That was his best season..

I think peak wise KG is better than Kobe. His two way game is better than Kobe's two way game.

jonjones wrote:

GetItDone wrote:03/08 KG is better than any form of Kobe.

But, Kobe's "other peaks", such as 03, 06, 08, or whatever, are better than any other form of KG.

What about 04 kg? That was his best season..

I think peak wise KG is better than Kobe. His two way game is better than Kobe's two way game.

Yeah, I meant 04.

Actually, overall peak KG any year is better than Kobe ever was. We saw what Kobe did when he had a poverty supporting cast like KG did.

Absolutely nothing.

At least KG brought them to the WCF one of those years.

ardee wrote: He basically has the insane plus/minus numbers as his major point, but this is the same stat that had Shaq had -0.3/100 in the '01 POs.

What about his league leading PER (I know you love PER) & DRB%? Or his 2.2 BPG and 24 PPG? His 5 APG? Or his +3.1 TS%?

It's funny when people forget what a box-score monster KG used to be.

Peak KG > Peak Kobe.

Edit: Your backhanded criticism of on/off is weird. It's pretty much useless in the PO's with the small sample size and increased minutes of the stars.

I'd take 04 KG over any Kobe. He was a beast, one of the most dominant players I have ever seen without a doubt.

I'll take '08 Kobe over '04 KG. The reason being that Kobe was the better offensive player and had better post-season run in their peak. While KG had a pretty good playoff run in 2004, it wasn't as good as Kobe's 2008 playoff run.

Kobe's '08 season would have been compared to the likes of '92 Jordan and '12 Lebron had he won it all really. That was the year he was playing the correct form of basketball, making smart decisions, playing on both sides, great leadership, etc. It is why I take that season over 2006.

GetItDone wrote:Actually, overall peak KG any year is better than Kobe ever was. We saw what Kobe did when he had a poverty supporting cast like KG did.

Absolutely nothing.

At least KG brought them to the WCF one of those years.

And that was the year KG didn't have a poverty cast in Minnesota. When Kobe and KG were both with poverty casts, they made the post-season, but failed to get any further than the 1st round.

The point doesn't make a whole lot of sense since it applies to KG too.

Any version of Kobe passed '04 has pretty weak D and has pretty mediocre impact when compared among superstars. I don't even think Kobe has a peak..it's more just like a long prime, so this type of comparison usually isn't very fair to him.

OptimusOne6 wrote:I'll take '08 Kobe over '04 KG. The reason being that Kobe was the better offensive player and had better post-season run in their peak. While KG had a pretty good playoff run in 2004, it wasn't as good as Kobe's 2008 playoff run.

Kobe's '08 season would have been compared to the likes of '92 Jordan and '12 Lebron had he won it all really. That was the year he was playing the correct form of basketball, making smart decisions, playing on both sides, great leadership, etc. It is why I take that season over 2006.

What? I know that Kobe went to the finals in '08 but you can't seriously begin to compare their roads there. Garnett faced Nuggets, Sacramento and Lakers in the WCF. While Lakers 08 met Nuggets, Utah and Spurs to their way to the finals. I'm very confident that Garnett would've lead the 04 squad to the finals if he had faced the relatively weak opponents that Kobe did in 08.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won.

WhateverBro wrote:What? I know that Kobe went to the finals in '08 but you can't seriously begin to compare their roads there. Garnett faced Nuggets, Sacramento and Lakers in the WCF. While Lakers 08 met Nuggets, Utah and Spurs to their way to the finals. I'm very confident that Garnett would've lead the 04 squad to the finals if he had faced the relatively weak opponents that Kobe did in 08.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won.

Their roads were pretty similar, I might very well argue that Kobe's road may have been tougher so I don't know why you're using that as an argument. Kobe played tougher defenses than KG did and you can compare all of their teams defense if you want a good idea.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won

Sure it would have, MVP, Finals MVP, Championship, and Gold Medal. It would have been up there just because of all those accomplishments in one year.

OptimusOne6 wrote:

WhateverBro wrote:What? I know that Kobe went to the finals in '08 but you can't seriously begin to compare their roads there. Garnett faced Nuggets, Sacramento and Lakers in the WCF. While Lakers 08 met Nuggets, Utah and Spurs to their way to the finals. I'm very confident that Garnett would've lead the 04 squad to the finals if he had faced the relatively weak opponents that Kobe did in 08.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won.

Their roads were pretty similar, I might very well argue that Kobe's road may have been tougher so I don't know why you're using that as an argument. Kobe played tougher defenses than KG did and you can compare all of their teams defense if you want a good idea.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won

Sure it would have, MVP, Finals MVP, Championship, and Gold Medal. It would have been up there just because of all those accomplishments in one year.

What? Nuggets aside, sacramento and lakers in 04 are tougher opponents than utah, N.O and spurs in 08. Is this even debatable?

Yeah, their seasons would be similar accolades wise. I thought you meant in actual play because hes behind both.

WhateverBro wrote:What? Nuggets aside, sacramento and lakers in 04 are tougher opponents than utah, N.O and spurs in 08. Is this even debatable?

Lets get this straight, the 04 Lakers were not even the favorite against the 04 Spurs, so who was better to you, the 04 Spurs or the 08 Spurs? The answer should be obvious.

The 04 Lakers look awesome on paper but they weren't that great aside from Kobe and Shaq due to how old and weak their supporting cast was.

Sacramento may have been better than Utah, but surely not on the defensive side.

OptimusOne6 wrote:

WhateverBro wrote:What? Nuggets aside, sacramento and lakers in 04 are tougher opponents than utah, N.O and spurs in 08. Is this even debatable?

Lets get this straight, the 04 Lakers were not even the favorite against the 04 Spurs, so who was better to you, the 04 Spurs or the 08 Spurs? The answer should be obvious.

The 04 Lakers look awesome on paper but they weren't that great aside from Kobe and Shaq due to how old and weak their supporting cast was.

Sacramento may have been better than Utah, but surely not on the defensive side.

Weren't all that great aside from Kobe and Shaq? Put 04 Kobe and Shaq on any team and they will make a good playoff run.
They would have won it all if not for injuries.

OptimusOne6 wrote:

WhateverBro wrote:What? Nuggets aside, sacramento and lakers in 04 are tougher opponents than utah, N.O and spurs in 08. Is this even debatable?

Lets get this straight, the 04 Lakers were not even the favorite against the 04 Spurs, so who was better to you, the 04 Spurs or the 08 Spurs? The answer should be obvious.

The 04 Lakers look awesome on paper but they weren't that great aside from Kobe and Shaq due to how old and weak their supporting cast was.

Sacramento may have been better than Utah, but surely not on the defensive side.

The 08 spurs were terrible. The 04 spurs were easily better. The 04 spurs were up 2-0 on LA. The 08 spurs barely got by a hornets team. They got trounced by a team that was missing andrew bynum, a big part of the team. Also check out the teams' SRS's and expected W-L. 04 SA's was much much better using those two indicators.

jonjones wrote:
The 08 spurs were terrible. The 04 spurs were easily better. The 04 spurs were up 2-0 on LA. The 08 spurs barely got by a hornets team. They got trounced by a team that was missing andrew bynum, a big part of the team. Also check out the teams' SRS's and expected W-L. 04 SA's was much much better using those two indicators.

The 08 Spurs were far more talented and better than the 04 Spurs. The 04 Spurs had nothing but young developing players outside of Duncan. Manu and Parker were in their primes in 08, this alone makes the 08 Spurs a better team.

Yeah, the 04 Spurs had a 2-0 lead against LA, and then got backdoor swept. What is so impressive about that?

Give me the guy that outscored an entire team through 3 quarters single handedly.

I would take peak KG. A 7 footer with those kind of skills, athletic traits, and impact is more of a game changer than Kobe.

OptimusOne6 wrote:

jonjones wrote:
The 08 spurs were terrible. The 04 spurs were easily better. The 04 spurs were up 2-0 on LA. The 08 spurs barely got by a hornets team. They got trounced by a team that was missing andrew bynum, a big part of the team. Also check out the teams' SRS's and expected W-L. 04 SA's was much much better using those two indicators.

The 08 Spurs were far more talented and better than the 04 Spurs. The 04 Spurs had nothing but young developing players outside of Duncan. Manu and Parker were in their primes in 08, this alone makes the 08 Spurs a better team.

Yeah, the 04 Spurs had a 2-0 lead against LA, and then got backdoor swept. What is so impressive about that?

Manu wasn't Manu, he was injured if I remember right. Against the Hornets I believe the Spurs had to sleep on their plane because of hotel scheduling conflicts. But the 08 Spurs team did have that no-call on Brent Barry's buzzer beating 3 that the NBA apologized for not calling IIRC

WhateverBro wrote:

OptimusOne6 wrote:I'll take '08 Kobe over '04 KG. The reason being that Kobe was the better offensive player and had better post-season run in their peak. While KG had a pretty good playoff run in 2004, it wasn't as good as Kobe's 2008 playoff run.

Kobe's '08 season would have been compared to the likes of '92 Jordan and '12 Lebron had he won it all really. That was the year he was playing the correct form of basketball, making smart decisions, playing on both sides, great leadership, etc. It is why I take that season over 2006.

What? I know that Kobe went to the finals in '08 but you can't seriously begin to compare their roads there. Garnett faced Nuggets, Sacramento and Lakers in the WCF. While Lakers 08 met Nuggets, Utah and Spurs to their way to the finals. I'm very confident that Garnett would've lead the 04 squad to the finals if he had faced the relatively weak opponents that Kobe did in 08.

While I agree that 08 is Kobes peak year; no, it wouldn't have been compared to Jordan '92 and '12 LeBron if he had won.

The Lakers in '08 played the 3.8 SRS Nuggets in the first round, the 7 SRS Jazz in the second round, and the 5.1 SRS defending champion Spurs in the WCF.

The Wolves in '04 played the 1.7 Nuggets, the 5.4 Kings, and the 4.4 Lakers.

So there's no question that '08 was by FAR the stronger conference, and frankly Kobe's supporting cast was only marginally better.

This is Garnett quite clearly. An extremely strong offensive player in his own right, and one of the 5 best defensive players of all time.