Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuable?
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 5:49 pm
Shaqs peak vs Lebron 2013 season: who was more valuable, more dominant and better individual player? Very tough question, but...
RealGM
Sports is our Business
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/
Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuable?
https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1247304
Page 1 of 13
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:00 pm
Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. Lebron is great, unstoppable, and he makes everyone pay for being on the court with him. Shaq steamrolled people though. He never took over 20 field goal attempts per game and he was still the best scorer by far. Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:03 pm
GC Pantalones wrote:Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. Lebron is great, unstoppable, and he makes everyone pay for being on the court with him. Shaq steamrolled people though. He never took over 20 field goal attempts per game and he was still the best scorer by far. Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.
Shaq never scored 38 PPG in the finals vs. a DPOY. Stop lying.
And I'm a Shaq fan...
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:08 pm
GC Pantalones wrote:Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.
I'm pretty sure the Heat didn't make the Finals in 2000.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 6:08 pm
ronnymac2 wrote:GC Pantalones wrote:Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. Lebron is great, unstoppable, and he makes everyone pay for being on the court with him. Shaq steamrolled people though. He never took over 20 field goal attempts per game and he was still the best scorer by far. Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.
Shaq never scored 38 PPG in the finals vs. a DPOY. Stop lying.
And I'm a Shaq fan...
My bad he scored 38 against Indiana. He put up 33/16/5 against the DPOY.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:31 pm
GC Pantalones wrote:ronnymac2 wrote:GC Pantalones wrote:Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. Lebron is great, unstoppable, and he makes everyone pay for being on the court with him. Shaq steamrolled people though. He never took over 20 field goal attempts per game and he was still the best scorer by far. Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.
Shaq never scored 38 PPG in the finals vs. a DPOY. Stop lying.
And I'm a Shaq fan...
My bad he scored 38 against Indiana. He put up 33/16/5 against the DPOY.
So lebron has averaged 38.5/8/8 against the best defense in the league.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:57 pm
arifgokcen wrote:So lebron has averaged 38.5/8/8 against the best defense in the league.
Haha, please.
Orlando may have had the "best defense" statistically speaking but they had at best a mediocre perimeter defense that most elite offensive wings dominated against.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 10:58 pm
This is Shaq... pretty easily imo.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:18 pm
In today's game? Lebron. Lebron's skills maximize the three pointer generation style of play much more than Shaq's old man game would. Though if you put this Lebron in 2000-2004, Shaq is the more valuable player.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:19 pm
arifgokcen wrote:So lebron has averaged 38.5/8/8 against the best defense in the league.
Wait, you mean the series where he loss with HCA to a lesser team missing their PG?
Yeh...his ballhogging was truly more "valuable" than Shaq dismantling Deke.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:23 pm
PCProductions wrote:In today's game? Lebron. Lebron's skills maximize the three pointer generation style of play much more than Shaq's old man game would. Though if you put this Lebron in 2000-2004, Shaq is the more valuable player.
I think we're keeping both players in their era.
An Unbiased Fan wrote:arifgokcen wrote:So lebron has averaged 38.5/8/8 against the best defense in the league.
Wait, you mean the series where he loss with HCA to a lesser team missing their PG?
Yeh...his ballhogging was truly more "valuable" than Shaq dismantling Deke.
His offense wasn't a problem at all. The team's offense dominated. The problem was that the team (including him) played no defense.
Also every wing murdered Orlando that year.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:29 pm
GC Pantalones wrote:His offense wasn't a problem at all. The team's offense dominated. The problem was that the team (including him) played no defense.
Also every wing murdered Orlando that year.
I have to disagree. Lebron would hold the ball for nearly the whole possession, and either shoot or dump it off giving his teammate very little time to do anything but force up a shot. it was like some 13 year old was controlling Lebron with a XBox controller, and forgot there were 4 other players on the floor.
He put up NBA2k9 type numbers, but everyone around him regressed that series.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Fri Apr 26, 2013 11:34 pm
An Unbiased Fan wrote:GC Pantalones wrote:His offense wasn't a problem at all. The team's offense dominated. The problem was that the team (including him) played no defense.
Also every wing murdered Orlando that year.
I have to disagree. Lebron would hold the ball for nearly the whole possession, and either shoot or dump it off giving his teammate very little time to do anything but force up a shot. it was like some 13 year old was controlling Lebron with a XBox controller, and forgot there were 4 other players on the floor.
He put up NBA2k9 type numbers, but everyone around him regressed that series.
Dude didn't ElGee school you on this misinformed opinion? You just don't wanna change your opinions, do you?
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:31 am
LeBron by far. Along with Jordan the most dominant individual player to ever live. First off, work ethic/durability are never in question with LeBron. He never gets injured, never takes time off, and never slacks off on the court. Much better/more committed defensive player with the versatility to guard all 5 positions. He's a one-man fast-break stopper with his end to end speed and timing on blocked shots and can completely shut down the opposing team's transition game with the ground he covers. Contrast this with fat Shaq, who for obvious reasons does not have this kind of impact on a team's transition defense. Then you have LeBron's man defense in the halfcourt setting, much better than Shaq's. How many times have we seen LeBron guard the opposing team's best player, be it a PG, SG, SF or whatever and absolutely shut him down.
Then on offense, there's just nothing Shaq does better than LeBron. LeBron produces comparable/better scoring output on better efficiency and has a much more diverse skillset. All you need to do is foul Shaq at the end of games for him to become a crunch-time liability. Not to mention LeBron's true value on offense lies in the fact that he's far more than just a scorer. His playmaking/passing ability allow him to positively impact all of the 4 other teammates of his on the court and is far greater than Shaq's. Essentially LeBron is just harder to stop because there's nothing he can't do. Arguably the best open floor player of all time, a highly refined post game, unstoppable midrange game, 40% 3-point shooter, and the playmaking/vision/passing skills of a point guard, whereas Shaq's value lies strictly in his half-court scoring.
Then on offense, there's just nothing Shaq does better than LeBron. LeBron produces comparable/better scoring output on better efficiency and has a much more diverse skillset. All you need to do is foul Shaq at the end of games for him to become a crunch-time liability. Not to mention LeBron's true value on offense lies in the fact that he's far more than just a scorer. His playmaking/passing ability allow him to positively impact all of the 4 other teammates of his on the court and is far greater than Shaq's. Essentially LeBron is just harder to stop because there's nothing he can't do. Arguably the best open floor player of all time, a highly refined post game, unstoppable midrange game, 40% 3-point shooter, and the playmaking/vision/passing skills of a point guard, whereas Shaq's value lies strictly in his half-court scoring.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:37 am
RayBan-Sematra wrote:This is Shaq... pretty easily imo.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
Well said. Shaq dominated an era where other dominant superstars played whereas with lebron, that can't be said.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:38 am
RayBan-Sematra wrote:This is Shaq... pretty easily imo.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
This, good post!
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:44 am
te887848 wrote:LeBron by far. Along with Jordan the most dominant individual player to ever live.
Saying "by far" is imo quite silly and that is just your opinion.
Imo Peak Shaq was the most dominant player ever followed quite closely by Peak Jordan.
First off, work ethic/durability are never in question with LeBron.
We are comparing Peak years not career so this is irrelevant.
Much better/more committed defensive player with the versatility to guard all 5 positions.
Lebron can't guard power C's or PF's.
Peak Shaq was most certainly commited to defense and he was a true defensive anchor who could lock down the entire paint while shutting down his man.
Lebron is a great defensive wing but he can't anchor a defense the way Shaq could and his defensive impact is not even close to Peak Shaqs.
Contrast this with fat Shaq
People will think you're a Troll if you say things like this.
Peak Shaq was all muscle.
LeBron's man defense in the halfcourt setting, much better than Shaq's.
Shaq was a better m2m defender and his help defense in the paint was much more impactful then Lebrons help defense on the wing.
Then on offense, there's just nothing Shaq does better than LeBron.
More efficient, consistent and unstoppable scorer from the field.
Better offensive rebounder.
Collapses defenses better and draws more defensive attention.
Much greater off ball threat.
All you need to do is foul Shaq at the end of games for him to become a crunch-time liability.
Hack-A-Shaq was a strategy formed out of desperation and it worked once in a blue moon.
It was almost akin to giving up or throwing a flea flicker (football).
There are certain teams (even this year) who have had real success at times frustrating Lebron in the halfcourt and preventing him from scoring.
Shaq was far more dangerous and unstoppable from the field.
His playmaking/passing ability allow him to positively impact all of the 4 other teammates of his on the court and is far greater than Shaq's.
Shaq was an amazing playmaker at the C position.
Obviously he isn't gonna create as many raw assists as Lebron but he will collapse defenses much better then James and is much more dangerous off the ball thus making it much easier for his supporting players to create their own offense while also creating many raw and hockey type assists.
Whereas Shaq's value lies strictly in his half-court scoring.
And his fast-break scoring, and his rebounding, and his defense, and his playmaking ability, and his ability to collapse defenses, and his off ball ability and, and, and.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:56 am
RayBan-Sematra wrote:This is Shaq... pretty easily imo.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
Did you just use defensive win shares? Wow, please never, ever use that again to evaluate individual defense. Do you even know how it's calculated? It's complete crap.
Shaq never deserved a DPOTY award, even when he tried, which was rare. He was known for lazy defense.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:59 am
ShowTimeERA wrote:RayBan-Sematra wrote:This is Shaq... pretty easily imo.
More unstoppable scorer (in a league that didn't change its rules to benefit his style of play but infact did the opposite).
Not quite the playmaker Lebron is but makes up for it by collapsing defenses like no other and drawing much more defensive attention.
Much more dangerous player without the ball in his hands.
Dominant rebounder who owned the offensive glass and could get you 15-20 boards nightly.
Shaq was also a much greater defensive force.
At his Peak he got robbed of the DPOY while leading the league in dwshares, averaging over 3bpg and making a ho-hum cast the best defensive team in the league.
While offensively it might be close Lebrons defensive impact and intangibles don't approach Peak O'neals.
When Prime Shaq was on the court everything revolved around him & his dominance.
Lebron now is truly playing at an incredible level but I don't think his overall impact is equal to what Peak Shaqs/Jordans was.
I can't even imagine what Peak O'neal would do playing in this very weak ec with the best supporting cast in the league and with his old running mate Wade beside him. 16-0.
Well said. Shaq dominated an era where other dominant superstars played whereas with lebron, that can't be said.
Huh? Did you pull that out of your butt? When Shaq was playing people remarked that it wasn't fair because he had no peer and that he was the last real center, as Robinson/Olajuwon/et al got old.
This is a recency bias. You look back to 2000 and think of all the players who played around that period, not specifically how they were in 2000, while the present season guys are evaluated on what they just did and flaws are more glaring.
No superstars now but there were back then? Yeah, sure. Never thought I'd see the early 00's held to such reverence, but time does that.
Re: Lebron right now vs Shaq at his best: who is more valuab
Posted: Sat Apr 27, 2013 1:59 am
GC Pantalones wrote:Shaq, Shaq, and Shaq. Lebron is great, unstoppable, and he makes everyone pay for being on the court with him. Shaq steamrolled people though. He never took over 20 field goal attempts per game and he was still the best scorer by far. Hell he scored 38 ppg on the DPOY in the Finals.