RealGM

This is the Kobe Bryant thread for the Wins Added by Season Survey Project. viewtopic.php?f=64&t=1241811 Please read the project guidelines before posting in the thread.

For those who have already read the guidelines, just copy and paste the years below and fill in your answers.

Kobe Bryant
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012

Ardee made a thread about this a while ago. I'm going to import answers from there from those who have participated in the project thus far. If you want to change your answers in any way, just re-post a ballot in this thread.

Everyone else can post their ballot here per usual.

REMINDER: Please do not criticize posters if you think they overrate or underrate a player. Ask. Post information. Etc. But the spirit of the project is for people to honestly quantify their opinions as individuals.

SideshowBob wrote:1997 -1.0
1998 +0.0
1999 +0.0
2000 +2.5
2001 +5.0
2002 +4.0
2003 +5.0
2004 +4.0
2005 +4.5
2006 +5.5
2007 +5.5
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +5.0
2011 +2.5
2012 +2.0
2013 +2.5

Ardee wrote:1997: 0
1998: 0.5
1999: 1.5
2000: 3.5
2001: 6.5
2002: 5.0
2003: 6.5
2004: 4.5
2005: 3.0
2006: 7.0
2007: 6.0
2008: 7.0
2009: 6.5
2010: 5.5
2011: 4.0
2012: 4.5
2013: 6.0

RayBan-Sematra wrote:1998 +0.0
1999 +1.0
2000 +2.5
2001 +4.0
2002 +2.5
2003 +3.0
2004 +2.0
2005 +3.5
2006 +5.0
2007 +5.0
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +4.5
2011 +1.0
2012 +1.5
2013 +2.5?

Gregoire wrote:1997 -1.0
1998 +0.5
1999 +0.5
2000 +4.5
2001 +6.0
2002 +6.0
2003 +5.0
2004 +5.0
2005 +6.5
2006 +7.5
2007 +7.5
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +5.0
2011 +3.5
2012 +3.0
2013 +4.5

thebottomline wrote:1997 -0.5
1998 +2
1999 +3
2000 +4
2001 +5
2002 +4.5
2003 +5.5
2004 +4
2005 +4.5
2006 +6
2007 +6
2008 +6.5
2009 +5.5
2010 +5
2011 +4
2012 +3
2013 +3.5

JordansBulls wrote:Kobe Bryant
1997 - +0.0 WS (41.0)
1998 - +1.0 WS (42.0)
1999 - +4.0 WS (45.0)
2000 - +8.0 WS (49.0)
2001 - +12.0 WS (53.0)
2002 - +11.5 WS (52.5)
2003 - +15.0 WS (56.0)
2004 - +13.0 WS (54.0)
2005 - +7.0 WS (48.0)
2006 - +17.5 WS (58.5)
2007 - +17.5 WS (58.5)
2008 - +18.0 WS (59.0)
2009 - +17.0 WS (58.0)
2010 - +13.0 WS (54.0)
2011 - +12.0 WS (53.0)
2012 - +9.0 WS (50.0)
2013 - +4.0 WS (45.0)

Narigo wrote:97 - 0.5 wins
98 - 2.0 wins
99 - 5.5 wins
00 - 12.0 wins
01 - 16.5 wins
02 - 14.0 wins
03 - 16.0 wins
04 - 11.5 wins
05 - 9.0 wins
06 - 18.0 wins
07- 17.5 wins
08- 18.0 wins
09- 17.5 wins
10- 15.5 wins
11- 14.0 wins
12- 10.0 wins
13- 11.0 wins

1997 +1.5
1998 +2.0
1999 +3.0
2000 +4.0
2001 +5.5
2002 +4.5
2003 +5.5
2004 +4.0
2005 +4.0
2006 +5.5
2007 +5.5
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +5.0
2011 +3.5
2012 +3.0
2013 +3.0

SideshowBob wrote:Worked on Kobe's early years a little.

1997 +0.0
1998 +2.0
1999 +3.0
2000 +4.0
2001 +5.5
2002 +4.5
2003 +5.5
2004 +4.0
2005 +4.0
2006 +5.5
2007 +5.5
2008 +6.0
2009 +6.0
2010 +5.5
2011 +3.5
2012 +3.0
2013 +3.0

So you think the year he did 27-6-6 on 57% TS and was called the 4th best player in the league by ESPN was as impactful as the year he was nowhere near as skilled and was nowhere near being the best player on his own team?

Yeah pretty much, I'm not too concerned with box-score production here. If I had to pick between 00 and 13 though, I'd take 13 FWIW. I wasn't all that impressed by him this year.

IPV (similar to RAPM, but accounts for box-score production) has Kobe as +3.4 this season, and RAPM has him at +1.3. If we adjust for pace that's +3.2 by IPV and +1.2 by RAPM (though minutes need to be accounted for in here somewhere). Before going further, I'll note that what I am trying to gauge is ability to impact, while either of these stats are measuring actual impact, therefore, I'm more often than not giving the player the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'll admit that I had not checked out Bryant's numbers in either of those stats until now. IPV suggests that I'm roughly spot on in terms of impact created on this Laker team, and RAPM suggests that I'm overrating him.

SideshowBob wrote:Yeah pretty much, I'm not too concerned with box-score production here. If I had to pick between 00 and 13 though, I'd take 13 FWIW. I wasn't all that impressed by him this year.

tbh i barely pay attention to box scores stats anymore. not that i ignore them completely, but when we have so many superior stats to look at and use, it seems almost archaic to use box scores as anything other than a base point.

not sure if im alone in that thinking but for the most part box score stats dont interest me, including PER, WS and especially WP.

Doormatt wrote:

SideshowBob wrote:Yeah pretty much, I'm not too concerned with box-score production here. If I had to pick between 00 and 13 though, I'd take 13 FWIW. I wasn't all that impressed by him this year.

tbh i barely pay attention to box scores stats anymore. not that i ignore them completely, but when we have so many superior stats to look at and use, it seems almost archaic to use box scores as anything other than a base point.

not sure if im alone in that thinking but for the most part box score stats dont interest me, including PER, WS and especially WP.

I wouldn't say that I ignore them completely, but I've found that I'm leaning towards a similar thought process.

'99 - 5.5
'00 - 6.5
'01 - 8.0
'02 - 7.5
'03 - 8.5
'04 - 7.5
'05 - 7.5
'06 - 9.0
'07 - 9.0
'08 - 8.5
'09 - 8.5
'10 - 8.0
'11 - 6.5
'12 - 7.0
'13 - 7.5

SideshowBob wrote:IPV (similar to RAPM, but accounts for box-score production) has Kobe as +3.4 this season, and RAPM has him at +1.3. If we adjust for pace that's +3.2 by IPV and +1.2 by RAPM (though minutes need to be accounted for in here somewhere). Before going further, I'll note that what I am trying to gauge is ability to impact, while either of these stats are measuring actual impact, therefore, I'm more often than not giving the player the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'll admit that I had not checked out Bryant's numbers in either of those stats until now. IPV suggests that I'm roughly spot on in terms of impact created on this Laker team, and RAPM suggests that I'm overrating him.

My problem with these impact stats is that you can't use them as a way to measure one player's performance and then not use them for another. We all know how certain players get overrated in certain years, like Parker's defense or Amir Johnson's IPV. We seem to use these stats when they support our arguments and then ignore them in situations where we don't think they are correct. That makes them less credible.

nikomCH wrote:

SideshowBob wrote:IPV (similar to RAPM, but accounts for box-score production) has Kobe as +3.4 this season, and RAPM has him at +1.3. If we adjust for pace that's +3.2 by IPV and +1.2 by RAPM (though minutes need to be accounted for in here somewhere). Before going further, I'll note that what I am trying to gauge is ability to impact, while either of these stats are measuring actual impact, therefore, I'm more often than not giving the player the benefit of the doubt.

That said, I'll admit that I had not checked out Bryant's numbers in either of those stats until now. IPV suggests that I'm roughly spot on in terms of impact created on this Laker team, and RAPM suggests that I'm overrating him.

My problem with these impact stats is that you can't use them as a way to measure one player's performance and then not use them for another. We all know how certain players get overrated in certain years, like Parker's defense or Amir Johnson's IPV. We seem to use these stats when they support our arguments and then ignore them in situations where we don't think they are correct. That makes them less credible.

Doesn't make them less credible in my eyes. You just have to know how to properly use them, and one of the key points to note is that RAPM in particular is not meant to be a player ranking tool to begin with. That's all I'd say right now as I don't want to veer off topic here.

oolalaa wrote:'99 - 5.5
'00 - 6.5
'01 - 8.0
'02 - 7.5
'03 - 8.5
'04 - 7.5
'05 - 7.5
'06 - 9.0
'07 - 9.0
'08 - 8.5
'09 - 8.5
'10 - 8.0
'11 - 6.5
'12 - 7.0
'13 - 7.5

Please read the project guidelines -- I can't use your ballot here unless you participate in other threads.

In SRS:

1997 +1.5
1998 +2.5
1999 +3.0
2000 +4.5
2001 +5.5
2002 +4.5
2003 +4.5
2004 +4.5
2005 +5.0
2006 +5.5
2007 +5.5
2008 +5.5
2009 +5.0
2010 +4.0
2011 +2.5
2012 +2.5
2013 +4.0

EDIT: Updated 11/13/13

97- 0.5
98- +3.0
99- +3.5
00- +4.5
01- +5.5
02- +4.5
03- +5.5
04- +4.5
05- +4.0
06- +6.0
07- +6.0
08- +6.0
09- +5.5
10- +5.0
11- +4.5
12- +3.5
13- +4.5
14- 0