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If stacked Heat team lose to Bulls team missing their league MVP best player or any notable star is Lebron out of top 5 GOAT chat? Even further does this put to rest the Lebron GOAT hype?

Depends on how he plays. If he plays GOAT level basketball (not like his game 1), but his team loses (unlikely to happen if he plays like that), either one of two things happened: his team sucked or the bulls team just played better.

When Wade/Bosh are not performing well, is the Heat team really that much better than his Cavs?

nunemouse wrote:When Wade/Bosh are not performing well, is the Heat team really that much better than his Cavs?

ummmm YES.

It would be a huge blow. He would basically have lost 4 out of the last 5 years to lesser teams. He would only be 1 for 3 in rings, with a Top 7 player and Top 15 player next to him.

When we look at the Top 10 all-time, that PS record falls short of pretty much everyone except Wilt.

An Unbiased Fan wrote:It would be a huge blow. He would basically have lost 4 out of the last 5 years to lesser teams. He would only be 1 for 3 in rings, with a Top 7 player and Top 15 player next to him.

When we look at the Top 10 all-time, that PS record falls short of pretty much everyone except Wilt.

I agree completely with this. Of course the stats guys would tell us as long as his individual stats are pretty, team failures are irrelevant even if his play late in games is a big factor like in 2011.

Heat lose here and he starts looking more and more like the ARod of basketball. Clearly the most talented player going and maybe ever but lacking that other thing that a guy like Jeter or Duncan does have.

If he plays how he did in 2011, no one will tell you he has GOAT consideration. But if it's like 2009 Magic series, would you hold it against him? I guess my question is, what would you have expected him to differently in that series for it to have mattered in your eyes?

LOL the haters are enjoying this especially the Mj fans. The Heat will not lose to the bulls how quickly ppl forget the series in 2011.......they were just rusty and werent hitting open shots then spo made stupid defensive decisions down the stretch. If he did lose he might not reach the Mj level but hes still easily on his way to top 3. No player besides Mj and Shaq has played as well as Lebron did in 09, 10 and 13. Thats still Goat level basketball for 3yrs.
This heat team is a lot like the 90s bulls lets not forget after the bulls 1st championship what happened the next year. They swept the 1st round by blowouts against the Heat like the current Heat did to Bucks. Then they got stunned by a defensive juggernaut in game 1 at home to the knicks and knew a repeat wouldnt be easy. Thats what heat are going thru after the bulls loss they absolutely will not lose this series

If he provides tremendous production like the 2009 playoffs, then no. If he flat out chokes and lays an egg, then obviously.

It definitely should end the GOAT discussion for LeBron. But there is a vast fanbase that would make excuses and trumpet LeBron as GOAT even if he sticks his thumb in his mouth and cries like a baby, gets in the fetal position at half-court, during crunch time of a big game.

He does have HCA this year.

Texas Chuck wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:It would be a huge blow. He would basically have lost 4 out of the last 5 years to lesser teams. He would only be 1 for 3 in rings, with a Top 7 player and Top 15 player next to him.

When we look at the Top 10 all-time, that PS record falls short of pretty much everyone except Wilt.

I agree completely with this. Of course the stats guys would tell us as long as his individual stats are pretty, team failures are irrelevant even if his play late in games is a big factor like in 2011.

Heat lose here and he starts looking more and more like the ARod of basketball. Clearly the most talented player going and maybe ever but lacking that other thing that a guy like Jeter or Duncan does have.

I agree with this. Good stats don't always excuse playoff failures, especially when you are favored. The 2004 Lakers is a huge blemish on Kobe's record. The 2011 Heat is a blemish on Lebrons record. What makes Jordan and Russell on the short list for GOAT is that they won when they were suppose to.

The Heat should win it all this year and barring an injury, it's up to Lebron to ensure that happens. The Jeter/A-Rod comparison is apt imo, winning in the playoff's seals the deal on a great regular season.....

PetroNet wrote:

nunemouse wrote:When Wade/Bosh are not performing well, is the Heat team really that much better than his Cavs?

ummmm YES.

yet in 3 years they have yet to win a single game more than his cavs team did

Not sure why he would be out of top 5, he would definitely be out of the top 3 though. It would be difficult to get in the MJ/Russ/Kareem status, but he certainly could reach Magic/Wilt etc at 4 and 5.

They won't lose

An Unbiased Fan wrote:It would be a huge blow. He would basically have lost 4 out of the last 5 years to lesser teams. He would only be 1 for 3 in rings, with a Top 7 player and Top 15 player next to him.

When we look at the Top 10 all-time, that PS record falls short of pretty much everyone except Wilt.

It's not going to happen, the Heat will win the series. But if by some miracle the Bulls do pull-off the upset, LeBron really would sort of be like the modern day Wilt. An unbelievable physical specimen with freakish athletic gifts, who put up some of the most insane statistical seasons ever, but came up short in the playoffs too often. Granted, in Wilt's case, he wasn't losing to inferior teams for the most part.

Can we keep these nonsense discussions on the general board?

Yeah I've been calling this too. The Heat and Lebron HAVE to win this year for their legacy. Between 66 Ws, the 27 G streak, Westbrook and Rose's injuries... it would be just brutal for Bron's name if a team like the Pacers, Spurs, Grizzlies, or especially the Thunder without Westbrook, tapped that a** again like the 2011 Mavericks, especially in light of Lebron also losing as the favorite in 09 and 10. Heat losing this year would be the 2nd coming of Wilt and the Sixers in 1968 where even though they got the title the year before, losing with that much firepower made Wilt's legacy shot again

Why should it? Shaq had one of the most absurdly stacked teams in history in 2004 and lost to the heavy underdog Pistons 4-1. Shaq is somewhere close to top 5 GOAT and rarely is 2004 used against him.

Playoffs are all about your core stars and depth is mostly irrelevant. This "stacked" Heat team's 2nd and 3rd best players are averaging 12.9 ppg on poor shooting in the playoffs. If they don't pick it up significantly, then winning a championship should instantly elevate LeBron to GOAT status.

te887848 wrote:Why should it? Shaq had one of the most absurdly stacked teams in history in 2004 and lost to the heavy underdog Pistons 4-1. Shaq is somewhere close to top 5 GOAT and rarely is 2004 used against him.

The 2004 Pistons were one of the greatest defensive teams ever and actually had a higher SRS than LA in 2004.

A very big no, imo. It would make a lot harder the already hard task, to catch MJ, but Lebron could still very well end up being 2nd all-time, even if the Bulls does the unthinkable.