RealGM

Who is higher on your all time list and who would you rather start a franchise with?

Tim Duncan for both. I think that he had a higher impact on the court (his impact on the defensive end is that high) and he is easier to build around, due to being a big man who can mesh with every other type of player (other good centers, power forwards and of course perimeter players) as well as having no ego that might be an obstacle. He seems to be a real "team first" superstar guy.

Kobe's great, though, and qualifys for a top 10ish berth on the all-time list. Nothing to sniff at.

Kobe is higher on my all time list and of course I'd take Duncan to start my franchise.

Masigond wrote:Tim Duncan for both. I think that he had a higher impact on the court (his impact on the defensive end is that high) and he is easier to build around, due to being a big man who can mesh with every other type of player (other good centers, power forwards and of course perimeter players) as well as having no ego that might be an obstacle. He seems to be a real "team first" superstar guy.

Kobe's great, though, and qualifys for a top 10ish berth on the all-time list. Nothing to sniff at.

Well-put.

I'd agree with Duncan for both. Between his defensive presence, his team-first attitude, his professionalism and loyalty, and the fact that it is more difficult to find superstar bigs, Duncan is a clear choice. Incredible talent and player.

And I also echo that this is in no way a knock on Kobe. You can't deny his greatness.

I don't see a strong argument at all for Kobe over Duncan

Duncan is way easier to build around and has a more impressive resume than Kobe up to this point

nikomCH wrote:I don't see a strong argument at all for Kobe over Duncan

Duncan is way easier to build around and has a more impressive resume than Kobe up to this point

Agree. Hes got the higher peak as well as a more impressive prime and thus far has just as much longevity.

I don't have an all-time list, but of the two players in question I'd rank Duncan higher, and I'd take Duncan to start a franchise. Duncan's actually one of the handful of players I'd build a team around.

Seeing the replies of other posters to such topics over the years causes me to feel it necessary to say that this is my own opinion, and I don't claim to represent anyone other than myself. Other people can answer how they wish, and I expect the same courtesy.

Both amazing talents but yeah its duncan. I dont think i can even take lebron over him i had to choose

I rank Kobe higher on the all-time list however I'd take a dominant big man over a wing 10/10 times. Easier to build around.....

It's close for me, but I'll take Kobe

Hmm, Kobe & Duncan met 6 times in the playoffs. 4 out of the 6 times, Kobe was the most impactful player on the court. I'm a big fan of Duncan, but in the playoffs, Kobe's teams meet expectations at a higher rate than his teams. For all the 50+ win seasons SA has had....they have only had 4 Finals appearances in Duncan's era. SA never made it to the Finals 2 years in a row. You never got a dominant team from TD, like you did with Shaq, Kobe, or Lebron is doing right now.

So I could break down each player's pluses & minuses, but history suggest Kobe had the bigger impact. If I were starting a franchise, give me a guy who was instrumental to 2 separate runs where his team went to the FInals 3 straight times. Give me the guy who has come through in the playoffs more. Give me the guy with more impact.

Kobe + good support > TD + good support

Masigond wrote:Tim Duncan for both. I think that he had a higher impact on the court (his impact on the defensive end is that high) and he is easier to build around, due to being a big man who can mesh with every other type of player (other good centers, power forwards and of course perimeter players) as well as having no ego that might be an obstacle. He seems to be a real "team first" superstar guy.

Kobe's great, though, and qualifys for a top 10ish berth on the all-time list. Nothing to sniff at.

Yup, pretty much just this.

Duncan is clearly the better player to build with. Not even close. He's an elite two way big with amazing longevity who's never left his small market team and has never had any semblance of an attitude problem. That pretty much covers all bases as far as what you want from a franchise player. I think legitimately only Magic, Jordan, Russell are better bets to start your team with.

I think he's a better player too. But Kobe is at least in Duncan's general stratosphere as far as that goes.

Hm, I've all bit given up on all-time lists, but my pick for starting a franchise is without question Duncan.

Only on realgm and other internet boards is Tim Duncan considered a better player all time than Kobe...most analysts, and former players would say Kobe is the better player. I believe he is.

Starting a team is another question, because it's always easier to start big, and Duncan's defense/post game are really great assets to have to start a team.

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Hmm, Kobe & Duncan met 6 times in the playoffs. 4 out of the 6 times, Kobe was the most impactful player on the court. I'm a big fan of Duncan, but in the playoffs, Kobe's teams meet expectations at a higher rate than his teams. For all the 50+ win seasons SA has had....they have only had 4 Finals appearances in Duncan's era. SA never made it to the Finals 2 years in a row. You never got a dominant team from TD, like you did with Shaq, Kobe, or Lebron is doing right now.

So I could break down each player's pluses & minuses, but history suggest Kobe had the bigger impact. If I were starting a franchise, give me a guy who was instrumental to 2 separate runs where his team went to the FInals 3 straight times. Give me the guy who has come through in the playoffs more. Give me the guy with more impact.

Kobe + good support > TD + good support

And for 5 of those 6 series, Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team. He outplayed Shaq in 01 and 02, maybe 04 too, but that has a lot to do with who the defense had to focus on. It's a lot different putting up 45/10 in San Antonio and dunking on the twin towers at will when they're worried about rotating away from the best player in the world. Not to say Kobe didn't have great series' but come on, man. You know that's a dishonest way of looking at things.

Besides, when your only argument over another player is head to head match ups, you're probably going to lose the comparison.

MrBigShot wrote:Only on realgm and other internet boards is Tim Duncan considered a better player all time than Kobe...most analysts, and former players would say Kobe is the better player. I believe he is.

Starting a team is another question, because it's always easier to start big, and Duncan's defense/post game are really great assets to have to start a team.

Let's examine the first point via the second:

Do you really think that it's common for anyone to be able to judge the superiority of two players with such different strengths with great precision without doing intensive granular analysis?

Kobe's the better offensive player.
Duncan's the better defensive player.

It can't really be hard to believe that people may have a tendency to overrate the flashier parts of the game can it?

Duncan. There's literally nothing to worry about with him as your franchise player.

BattleTested wrote:

An Unbiased Fan wrote:Hmm, Kobe & Duncan met 6 times in the playoffs. 4 out of the 6 times, Kobe was the most impactful player on the court. I'm a big fan of Duncan, but in the playoffs, Kobe's teams meet expectations at a higher rate than his teams. For all the 50+ win seasons SA has had....they have only had 4 Finals appearances in Duncan's era. SA never made it to the Finals 2 years in a row. You never got a dominant team from TD, like you did with Shaq, Kobe, or Lebron is doing right now.

So I could break down each player's pluses & minuses, but history suggest Kobe had the bigger impact. If I were starting a franchise, give me a guy who was instrumental to 2 separate runs where his team went to the FInals 3 straight times. Give me the guy who has come through in the playoffs more. Give me the guy with more impact.

Kobe + good support > TD + good support

And for 5 of those 6 series, Kobe wasn't even the best player on his own team. He outplayed Shaq in 01 and 02, maybe 04 too, but that has a lot to do with who the defense had to focus on. It's a lot different putting up 45/10 in San Antonio and dunking on the twin towers at will when they're worried about rotating away from the best player in the world. Not to say Kobe didn't have great series' but come on, man. You know that's a dishonest way of looking at things.

Besides, when your only argument over another player is head to head match ups, you're probably going to lose the comparison.

1) First, Duncan was being guarded by Horry, Samaki Walker, Madsen, so let's not act like TD was facing tough defense. He still had DRob, and then Parker/Manu after that.

2) SA's defense on Shaq consisted of DRob and Rose man up. You're giving a pass for Duncan too, because for all fo his defensive prowess...he didn't guard Shaq much.

3) None of this takes away from the fact that Kobe was the best player on the floor in 4 out of the 6 series. Or that Kobe's teams have met expectations at a higher rate than Duncan's.

Impactwise, Kobe's individual offense > Duncan's individual defense.

I like Duncan in this comparison.