RealGM

Who do you think is the better player? Who would you take?

Kevin Durant. If Howard was a better passer i would pick him comfortably

Howard. He took a pretty marginal team to the Finals. It looks like KD struggles without big time second bananas.

This is Howard for me!

I consider 11 Howard his peak until now!

23 ppg on 62 % TS offensively!

Durant provides 28 ppg on 65 % TS while having some value as a playmaker, even though that value is rather small!

So the offensive gap is not enough to overcome Dwight's superior Defense!
So because Howard is an elite defensive anchor I choose him!

Laimbeer wrote:Howard. He took a pretty marginal team to the Finals. It looks like KD struggles without big time second bananas.

You're using that one situation to come to that conclusion? Never mind the fact that they didn't get any time to adjust to playing without Westbrook. Just not sure how you could use this smallish sample size under some strange circumstances to come to the conclusion Durant struggles without a "big time second banana." Especially since that team isn't really constructed in a way to sufficiently support one big time player.

Howard. He pretty much led a team with no 2nd star ( jameer doesnt count) to the 2009 NBA finals. Durant is very overrated IMO, but again thats my opinion.

JohnsHopkins wrote:Howard. He pretty much led a team with no 2nd star ( jameer doesnt count) to the 2009 NBA finals. Durant is very overrated IMO, but again thats my opinion.

Overrated how?

Again this is how i personally feel, but I feel that he gets way to much hype as being a "great" for a player that has not accomplished much. When I say great, im referring to all-time. He has no mvp, no dpoy, has not even won more than 2 games in the finals, has not won a series without homecourt (unless they beat Spurs last year without homecourt). I feel that media overreacts to some of his games and stats and starts comparing him to MJ, KB, Larry, Magic, lbj, etc. To me this this is unfair to him, because he is only 23 but still has a long way to go to be considered an all time great. Im not saying his skill set is overrated. Acutally, i think his overall game might be underrated.
The media just makes him out to be legend when he still has yet to really accomplish much. WHen you have trash like ESPN overblowing everything he does and comparing him to the players i listed above, ppl start expecting him to match what they did, but in reality he is still learning. All those players, failed multiple times before they got to the top. HE will be legend when his career is over and people will look back and say how underrated he was, but for now i feel that he is overrated, but not knocking on him as a player just the hype around him.

JohnsHopkins wrote:Again this is how i personally feel, but I feel that he gets way to much hype as being a "great" for a player that has not accomplished much. When I say great, im referring to all-time. (unless they beat Spurs last year without homecourt).

I don't think even the media talks about Durant being an all-time great, so I'm not sure where you're getting that from. And if we're talking about best peak seasons, the best I've seen is people on here saying is that 2013 Durant is a top 15 or top 20 all-time peak; not sure how you can really argue against that, either.

And yes, they beat the Spurs last year without HCA, and Durant had one classic performance in the game where he scored 16 straight OKC points in the 4th quarter of game 4. He was a monster in that series.

He has no mvp, no dpoy, has not even won more than 2 games in the finals, has not won a series without homecourt

He's 24 and has finished second in the MVP voting three times to peak LeBron James. It's not like he's losing out on MVP's to some top 30 or top 40 player all-time; he's losing them to a player who's probably going to finish top 5 all-time.

I feel that media overreacts to some of his games and stats and starts comparing him to MJ, KB, Larry, Magic, lbj, etc.

I think you're taking things out of context. I think the media, as they do for everyone, takes great games or great seasons and compares them to other all-time greats and their great games and/or seasons; not their careers careers. Durant just had an "all-time great" caliber season. I don't hear the media saying Durant's as good as Jordan, Kobe, BIrd, Magic, and LeBron in terms of career legacy. But what Durant did this year, a 28 PPG on 50/40/90 season, has only been bettered in terms of volume by Larry Bird.

The media just makes him out to be legend when he still has yet to really accomplish much. WHen you have trash like ESPN overblowing everything he does and comparing him to the players i listed above,

See what I posted above, however, he's actually accomplished quite a bit for a 24 year old. Three scoring titles, 4x All-NBA 1st team; a Finals appearance; a 28-8-5, 50/40/90 season on a 60 win team who looked poised to make another Finals run before Westbrook went down. And that's all by the age of 24 and just 6 seasons into his career.

ppl start expecting him to match what they did, but in reality he is still learning. All those players, failed multiple times before they got to the top. HE will be legend when his career is over and people will look back and say how underrated he was, but for now i feel that he is overrated, but not knocking on him as a player just the hype around him.

I understand what you mean and where you're coming from, but he's not really receiving anymore hype than some of the all-time greats that came before him started receiving around 24-25 years old.

NaturalThunder wrote:

JohnsHopkins wrote:Howard. He pretty much led a team with no 2nd star ( jameer doesnt count) to the 2009 NBA finals. Durant is very overrated IMO, but again thats my opinion.

Overrated how?

He doesn't do as well creating for himself as other great perimeter players. I wouldn't be crazy about having him is isolation in the closing seconds. He's best when playing off what others create. Don't know if that makes him overrated, but it makes him less effective as the guy when he doesn't have a heavy hitter as his wing man.

Laimbeer wrote:He doesn't do as well creating for himself as other great perimeter players. I wouldn't be crazy about having him is isolation in the closing seconds. He's best when playing off what others create. Don't know if that makes him overrated, but it makes him less effective as the guy when he doesn't have a heavy hitter as his wing man.

I agree, he's not as good as most other great perimeter players, but he's certainly not bad it either. Ideally you'd like to have another really good ball-handler/creator like Westbrook next to Durant; but he also just averaged around 7 APG while adjusting to that role on the fly in the playoffs. The turnovers were a bit excessive, admittedly, but he's one of those players that gets most of his turnovers due to being stripped on a drive or charges; for the most part, he's become quite accurate in his passing/distributing of the basketball. I thought he showed quite well in that role given the circumstances and one of the defenses he faced in 5 of the 9 games without Westbrook.

However, that's a very small sample size, and we don't have at least a season's worth of games to draw from like we do with players like LeBron, Wade, and Kobe. The team would no doubt be constructed a bit different if you took Westbrook away (and his salary) and replaced him with two worse, but capable, offensive players -- I say two, because you could probably find two decent shooters and/or slashers, or maybe a frontcourt scoring threat, to take Westbrook's place at around the same price it cost for just Westbrook. You also have to take into account, without Westbrook, his scoring probably goes up to and possibly exceeds 30 PPG, which would negate some of his primary playmaker deficiencies. I imagine there'd be a dip in efficiency, but he'd probably still be capable of getting around 30-32 PPG on 48% FG and 60%ish TS due to how well he gets to the line. And before you point out how much he struggled to score against the Grizzlies later in the series, keep in mind he wouldn't be facing a top two defense most of the time.

Laimbeer wrote:

NaturalThunder wrote:

JohnsHopkins wrote:Howard. He pretty much led a team with no 2nd star ( jameer doesnt count) to the 2009 NBA finals. Durant is very overrated IMO, but again thats my opinion.

Overrated how?

He doesn't do as well creating for himself as other great perimeter players. I wouldn't be crazy about having him is isolation in the closing seconds. He's best when playing off what others create. Don't know if that makes him overrated, but it makes him less effective as the guy when he doesn't have a heavy hitter as his wing man.

You don't know what you're talking about.


In any case, this is Durant comfortably. Really isn't even close.

I tend to think Howard, but that Durant's peak will be higher if Howard doesn't manage better than he's already done. Really a shame that a couple years of Howard's prime were wasted. A big part of it was injuries, but not all of it.

Laimbeer wrote:Howard. He took a pretty marginal team to the Finals. It looks like KD struggles without big time second bananas.

Howard actually lost in round 1 with HCA at his peak to a team he shouldn't had lost to in Atlanta.

Howard's final run included beating LeBron's team (who had lackluster second options) and a Boston team without KG. It doesn't really show that he can do anything that Durant can't.

NO-KG-AI wrote:Howard's final run included beating LeBron's team (who had lackluster second options) and a Boston team without KG. It doesn't really show that he can do anything that Durant can't.

Dwight had no 2nd option either though. Unless Rashard Lewis spotting up for 3 counts as a 2nd option.

Coaster80 wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:Howard's final run included beating LeBron's team (who had lackluster second options) and a Boston team without KG. It doesn't really show that he can do anything that Durant can't.

Dwight had no 2nd option either though. Unless Rashard Lewis spotting up for 3 counts as a 2nd option.

I know. People are using "Dwight had no second option" Like he was knocking off star studded teams with dominant first and second options.

Howard and it's not even close

NO-KG-AI wrote:Howard's final run included beating LeBron's team (who had lackluster second options) and a Boston team without KG. It doesn't really show that he can do anything that Durant can't.

Howard was the one of the few guys in history to lead his team to 2 victories against 60+ win opponents without HCA in a single playoff

colts18 wrote:

NO-KG-AI wrote:Howard's final run included beating LeBron's team (who had lackluster second options) and a Boston team without KG. It doesn't really show that he can do anything that Durant can't.

Howard was the one of the few guys in history to lead his team to 2 victories against 60+ win opponents without HCA in a single playoff

You don't see anything wrong with that analysis?