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Where should Duncan be ranked all-time? I've got him around 3-4.

1. MJ
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5. Duncan

I'm inclined to say 5 although I think he will be surpassed by Lebron eventually and you can currently argue that Hakeem, Bird, and Shaq should be ahead of him. I'm sold he is ahead of Bird but the Shaq, Hakeem, and Duncan comparison is a bit shaky for me right now.

Duncan's longevity gets overrated sometimes. His season by season basis was kind of like a roller coaster. He had a lot of nagging injuries in some of his seasons which was why he was never able to repeat as a champion.

That's not really true. What held him back from repeating was the total lack of a support cast compared to his opponents in most years. In 2000 if Duncan's team had been better, then they would gotten past the first round without him, then he'd have come back to play after. As it was, the Spurs were never beating the uber stacked Lakers that year. In 2004 Duncan's support cast wasn't good enough, and they got jobbed on a ref call. In 2006 Duncan went into god-mode in the playoffs, the team lost anyway not because Duncan was hurt, but because he was playing next to 3 swingmen and a poin guard- the team had insufficient talent and size (and was one bad Manu foul away from winning anyway). In 2008 Duncan wasn't in his prime anymore, the support cast wasn't good enough (especially with Manu badly hurt).

I voted 9, although that's not a very scientific vote because I have not ranked my Top 25 players yet. Off the top of my head, 8-10 sounds about right, so I just split the difference. Great player, so much fun to watch.

I put him at 8th even though I don't have an absolute Top 10. He's one of those guys that you had to watch to appreciate. His numbers on offense aren't fantastic. His usage was not that high but if you watched him long enough, you could see that he could score at will when he needed to, whether it was to get the Spurs out of a lull, to break the other team's back, or to seal a win. And his defense doesn't need any justification from me.

Russell and Mike are complete no brainers ahead of him.
I think both Magic and KAJ should also be pretty close to locks ahead of him.
Then you can argue him and Shaq.

So 5-6 is right where he belongs. He cant be lower than 6 and its hard to justify him higher than 5.

No chance Dream or Bird or Lebron or Kobe belong ahead of him. Lebron has time to catch him obviously and may well do it, but Duncan has been a dominant 2-way player from the day he stepped into the league and his team has done nothing but win. He has 4 titles including one that is one of the all-time great examples of one guy carrying his team in 2003. His peak gets underrated because he is so consistently brilliant that his peak varies very little from his prime. That should be a plus in his column, not a strike.

I'll give you a range on where Tim Duncan can rank.

The highest I can see TD ranking is 4th with only MJ, Russell and KAJ. The first two have him beat because they have higher peaks along with better primes. KAJ also has the advantage of far better longevity.

The lowest I can see TD ranking is below the following players in no specific order:

KAJ: discussed above
MJ: discussed above
Russell: discussed above
Bird: Substantially better peak due to his offensive impact which fits on any possible team
Magic: similar to Bird
Hakeem: His athletic advantages allow him to maintain his impact on any team while TD's impact in part was due to Pop.
KG: better durability and offensive game
Shaq: far better peak and prime with similar longevity value
Lebron: GOAT level peak is more valuable than TD's also his prime has been devoid of the nagging injuries that TheChosen618 discussed.
Wilt: better peak and while Wilt has his up and downs in his prime that was partly due to primitive basketball strategy which wouldn't have occurred under Pop.
Erving: Better peak than TD and his prime was similar. The only reason for Erving's slight dip upon entering the NBA was that he was fundamentally missed used his first few years in Philly. When ranking players you have to take into account coaching and you shouldn't give player credit/blame if they were misused by the coaching staff.
Karl Malone: lower peak value but his prime is better due to its substantially longer length and health issues. Rare case were longevity beats out peak.
Oscar Robertson: GOAT level offensive player so the argument is similar to Bird/Magic. Similar to KG he just had awful luck with supporting cast for most of his career. At the end of his career when playing w/talent showed he was able to maintain impact just like KG.
Kobe: lower peak but superior longevity. PS scorer more reliable than TD plus higher single .

Accordingly I can see Duncan ranking anywhere from 4th to 15th.

It goes without saying that I do not agree with all of the arguments I listed above but rather am just putting out a skeletal version of an argument that a reasonable person could make.

EDIT: I added Kobe above today who was omitted due to forgetfulness.

I fluctuate between Shaq, Magic, Hakeem, and Duncan in the 5-8 spots with Bird just a hair behind them, but somewhere in that area. He just isn't as dominant as Russell, Jordan, Wilt, or Kareem.

sp6r,

Im confused why when comparing Duncan to Wilt and Dream that Duncan gets taken down a notch because of Pop then under Dr J you say "you shouldn't give player credit/blame based on coaching staff"

I for one get tired of Pop getting so much credit for Tim Duncan. Is he a significant piece to the success of the Spurs team under his tenure? OF course he was. Does he deserve credit for how Tim Duncan performs? Thats really hard for me to believe considering Duncan walked into the league a top 5 player and I find it impossible to believe that Tim Duncan wouldnt have been a top 5 player walking into any team in the league. He's that good. Elite 2-way bigs can play essentially anywhere for any coach.

Please dont make this about Pop when talking about Duncan's talent.

As high as 6 and no lower than 9 he can go. I'd rank him 8th all time, definitely behind Jordan, Russell, LeBron, Kareem and Wilt. I think Magic's got a very strong case over him as well. I also prefer Shaq over Duncan for the 7th spot as well, but it could go either way.

Anyhow, no lower than 8 or 9.

He's 6th on my list.
Jordan
Kareem
Magic
Wilt
Russell
DUNCAN
Shaq
Hakeem
Bird
Lebron James

I moved him ahead of Shaq after last season. I wasn't gonna let an amazing year by Timmy, and practically winning the title for his team in game 6 only to have his teammates let him down not account for something. I think even in defeat last season helped Duncan's legacy. I mean honestly has their ever been a 37 year old who was that consistent, and good on both ends of the court?

Cyrusman122000 wrote:I think even in defeat last season helped Duncan's legacy. I mean honestly has their ever been a 37 year old who was that consistent, and good on both ends of the court?

Kareem at that age had stopped rebounding some time ago and wasn't nearly the defender, so no.

I'd take the following ahead of Duncan:
Russell
Jordan
Dream
Kareem
Shaq

not sure but mostly yes:
Magic
LeBron
Oscar
KG
Bird

so Duncan's about 7-11 for me

I have Russell, Jordan, Shaq, Kareem, Dream and maybe Wilt before Duncan. So I have him at 7, possibly going to 6.

ThaRegul8r wrote:

Cyrusman122000 wrote:I think even in defeat last season helped Duncan's legacy. I mean honestly has their ever been a 37 year old who was that consistent, and good on both ends of the court?

Kareem at that age had stopped rebounding some time ago and wasn't nearly the defender, so no.

but Kareem was easily a 30 ppg threat if needed. to me 37 year old Kareem is a better offensive player than peak Duncan.

I think he and Magic are pretty similar impact players. Both around 3-4.

In what way did Dr. J have the better peak, sp6r? I'd take Duncan's pretty clearly, personally.

As for me, the no-brainers are Jordan, Russell, Kareem, and Shaq. I'd take LeBron, Magic and Hakeem over Duncan, but can understand arguments for the other way. I personally take Duncan over KG, Bird, Wilt, but again, can understand arguments the other way.

So a reasonable range for Duncan imo is 5-11, with Duncan ranking 7th on my personal list.

#5

He lacks the awards that some of the other greats have, but I focus much more on what Duncan has been able to do in the playoffs. When I look back over the past 15 years or so, no one has been as consistent in the post-season, and in an era with Shaq, Kobe, KG, LeBron, Dirk, Wade, Nash, etc., that's really saying something.

Screw peak. With Duncan the Spurs have been in position to contend since he entered the league 16 years ago.

He's the ultimate professional and highly portable player, as well as being an exceptional two-way player. There's just nothing negative about him.

Duncan has been one of the most impressively leveraged players in history. Pretty much every year they've managed to craft a strong team around him as the team fulcrum (on both ends). That's a testament to his skills, selflessness and consistency even more than it is a testament to the Spurs organisation...

In terms of overall value to a single franchise, he doesn't have many peers. I can see an argument for him at 5 or 6, and putting him below 8 is a dicey proposition.

Not sure how "screw peak" is an argument for Duncan, his peak in 2002 and 2003 was insane. He carried horribly weak teams to outcomes way beyond what should have been expected.