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I finished rewatching the Lakers-Blazers game 7 and focused primarily on what Shaq and Kobe were doing.


Touches in the halfcourt (within 15 feet of basket for Shaq, inside 3 point line for Kobe):

Shaq: 40 touches, 36 doubles (90%), 2 triples (2 assists on them), 7 assists/hockey assists, 12 fouls drawn (2 offball)

Kobe had 36 touches, 14 double teams, 2 triples, 5 assists/hockey assists, 6 fouls drawn (1 in backcourt, 1 garbage time intentional foul)

Sabonis guarded Shaq on 29 touches (3-6 FGA), Grant on 7 (1-1 FG), and Jermaine O'neal on 5 (0-0 FG)

Damon Stoudamire guarded Kobe on 12 of his touches (1-4 FG), Pippen guarded him on 15 touches (5-11 FG), wells guarded him on 7 touches (2-2 FG),

-All 6 of Sabonis fouls came against Shaq including 4 in the 4th quarter.

Man to Man defense:

Shaq's man: 4-14 FG: Sabonis went 2-5 FG, Pippen/Smith went 1-6 FG, Sheed 1-2 FG

Kobe's man 6-16 FG: Damon went 2-4 FG vs Kobe, Pippen 1-4 FG, Smith 2-6 FG, Wells 1-2: 1-5 FGA in iso or postup situations


Help situations:

Shaq allowed 2-7 FG (1 of them goaltend) in the paint when he went down to help.

Pick and Roll:

In general, Shaq played the Pick and Roll the same way that Roy Hibbert did. He either sagged back to the paint or switched onto the PnR ball handler. Overall, when he switched on the PnR, Smith/Pippen went 1-5 FG (1 3P made) against Shaq with 1 other 3 pt made where both Shaq and his teammate left the PnR Ballhandler. None of the ballhandlers blew by Shaq, preferring to take the open long jumper since Shaq was standing near the FT line. Only once did Shaq try to trap the PnR ballhandler, but 2 passes later, the Blazers scored a layup. His PnR D wasn't great, but it wasn't bad either. I would gladly give Steve Smith a 22 foot open long jumper if I was the Lakers.


How the Blazers Defended Shaq:

As you can tell by the numbers above, the Blazers literally doubled Shaq everytime he touched it. The only times he didn't get doubled was when he made a quick move on Sabonis that didn't allow the Blazers the time to double him. Once the pass went in, the Blazers immediately went to double Shaq. They clearly made their priority to stop Shaq at all costs. Most of the doubles either came from Smith, Sheed or Pippen. The Blazers even doubled from the Lakers 3 point shooters and sometimes Kobe. One possession, Pippen doubled down off of Kobe, and Shaq hit Kobe for the open 3. I've never seen a defense give a man this much attention before. I've watched MJ, Kareem, Hakeem play, but none of them ever faced a comparable amount of defenders that Shaq did. In the 1st quarter, Shaq drew 2 quick fouls on Sabonis, then Grant came in and drew 2 fouls. So the Blazers were forced to use young Jermaine O'Neal to guard Shaq some.


How the Blazers Defended Kobe:

In the first half of the 1st and 3rd quarter, the Blazers used Damon Stoudamire to guard Kobe. Stoudamire is listed at 5' 10, 170 lbs. A man that is 8 inches shorter, and 30-40 lbs lighter was guarding Kobe for ~1 whole quarter. No offense, but the Raptors would have never dared to have Damon Stoudamire guarding MJ for a quarter. Kobe made a few plays on him and had a few assists from the doubles, but the lack of respect shows what the Blazers thought of Kobe. For the other 3 quarters of time, Smith/Wells guarded Kobe some, but Pippen guarded Kobe for around ~2 quarters worth of basketball. Pippen did a decent job but Kobe more than held his own. When Stoudamire guarded Kobe, they sent doubles on postup situations. When Pippen/Smith guarded him, they doubled when he drove to the basket.


Shaq's defense:

You can clearly tell that the Blazers had a strategy to minimize Shaq's amazing defensive impact. It was simple: Illega defense and 3 point line. They camped their big men at the 3 point line. Shaq would sag down a bit but due to the archaic NBA rules, Shaq wasn't allowed to go past the FT line. This allowed the Blazers free reign to the paint. That's why Shaq only contested 7 shots in the game. The Blazers would post up iso on the weakside and Shaq wouldn't be allowed to help on time due to the rues. The strategy worked somewhat with Sabonis because Sabonis could shoot the ball. But when Grant/Jermaine O'Neal came in the game, the Blazers played the same strategy despite the fact that both of them couldn't shoot. Shaq still had to respect them due to the rules. The Blazers centers stuck in the perimeter rarely posting up or challenging Shaq on the dribble.

Sheed dominated AC Green/Horry in that game. He was so talented that he had his way with them in the post. Its startling to see Rasheed playing in the post, not the 3 point line. In the 2nd half the Lakers starting sending some doubles to him. Shaq doubled him a few times. One time Sabonis cut to the basket, but Sheed missed the pass. Another time Sheed hit Sabonis who made the long 2 point jumper. Shaq didn't guard Sheed until the end of the 4th quarter when Grant was in the game for a fouled out Sabonis. Sheed missed one shot, and drew a foul vs Shaq

Kobe's defense:

Crazy to see a version of Kobe that is playing good D and focused on that side of the ball. You can see a huge difference between 00 and 13 Kobe. 00 Kobe didn't help out much, but he also didn't play 1 man zone either. Kobe's man D was really good. He was adept at applying pressure to the ballhandler when he crossed halfcourt. He had 3 deflections in the 1st half of the game. The Blazers strategy was to post up him up. 2000 Kobe was smaller and weaker compared to older Kobe. Bonzi Wells had like 2 postups where he manhandled Kobe so the Lakers didn't Kobe on him again. Steve Smith focused mostly on posting up Kobe. Kobe did a job of shutting down those postups.



Overall Impression:

Shaq: You could tell that Blazers came into game 7 with the mindset that Shaq wasn't going to beat them. Shaq wasn't aggressive though its hard to be when you got 2 guys up in your face when you get the ball. Shaq's passing was solid and he found a few cutters and open jumpshots. Shaq's defense got so much respect that the Blazers gameplanned to minimize his defensive impact. The Blazers were scared to even postup or attack Shaq with the ball. Some would say that Shaq had a bad game 7, but I disagree. His impact was evident all game. No center in history could have done what 00 Shaq was doing

Craziest stat: The Blazers only tried to postup Shaq 1 time all game.

Kobe: Kobe was still green but he did have a positive impact. His athleticism allowed him to play better Defense and drive to the basket more than old Kobe. 2000 Kobe couldn't carry a team, but he was a great robin. I didn't see much selfishness or jacking up contested fadeaways from Kobe either.

Lakers supporting cast: The Lakers cast was awful. It was an amazing carry job by Shaq (and lesser extent Kobe and Phil) to lead that team to 67 wins. Both Harper and AC Green were too old to contribute. Horry couldn't play defense. Glen Rice didn't have much an impact in the game. Shaq was carrying a cast similar to 09 LeBron's in terms of talent.


In the next few paragraphs, I'll explain a few plays that show off Shaq and Kobe's impact in the game.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8loTCIiCiXE[/youtube]


Shaq:

5:40- A play that shows Shaqs impact. Shaq is in the post. AC Green's man sags down to the post even before Green has a shot at throwing it into Shaq. As a result, Green gets a wide open jumper (which he missed) courtesy of the attention Shaq received.

14:06- Shaq gets the ball in the post, Stoudamire and Pippen come down to triple team Shaq. He recognizes it quickly and immediately passes to an open Fisher who makes an easy 15 foot jumper

14:25- An example of a typical PnR vs Shaq. Shaq sags to the FT line allowing Smith to take the jumper. Because of Shaq's length, he is able to contest the shot

15:05- Shaq recognizes the double and hits Horry on a cut to the basket. Horry dunks it.

24:05- An example of the offense the Blazers played. Notice how Jermaine O'Neal is far beyond his shooting range. Due to illegal defense, Shaq has to respect that. The Blazers have the ball at the top of the key, but Shaq cant double Sheed on the other side of the court due to the rules. Once Sheed gets the ball, its too late for Shaq to come and make an impact on Sheed's easy layup

26:19- Kobe throws it to Shaq in the post. Pippen leaves Kobe to double Shaq, Shaq passes it to Kobe who hits the 3 pointer

Kobe:

3:10- Kobe drives on the smaller Stoudamire and draws a double team. Kobe hits Harper in the baseline for the easy jumper

31:00- Kobe's active D bothers Wells. Kobe pocks the ball out of Wells hands when he tries to post Kobe.

1:13:45- Kobe shows off his athleticism. The Blazers player drives to the basket but Kobe comes from the weakside and has a monster block.

Great information. Thanks!

Kobe played terrific defense throughout the 3-peat. Not sure why you're "surprised".

mojay641 wrote:Kobe played terrific defense throughout the 3-peat. Not sure why you're "surprised".

I never used the word surprised. I just said I was shocked by seeing a version of Kobe that commits to playing defense.

colts18 wrote:

mojay641 wrote:Kobe played terrific defense throughout the 3-peat. Not sure why you're "surprised".

I never used the word surprised. I just said I was shocked by seeing a version of Kobe that commits to playing defense.

It shouldn't be all that shocking considering he was committed to playing defense during the Lakers recent championship run as well. He wasn't as good as Frobe, but the effort and intensity were typically there.

Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

Just by virtue of the fact he had slightly sub-prime Kobe, you can discount the "bad support cast" stuff. History has proven 2 mega stars and a bunch of meh role players win. I'm not going to cut Shaq slack for his otherwise meh support cast (which wasn't that bad anyway- Horry and Fox are holistically good role players, as was 25 year old Fisher, and Rice was a decent enough player still), when he has Kobe freaking Bryant on his team.

I don't doubt btw that Shaq was awesome this game, far moreso than Kobe, but to claim he had a bad support cast in 2000 (or 2001) is going way too far.

"far moreso than Kobe" isn't going too far?

Kobe led both teams in rebounds (11), blocks (4), assists (7), and was tied with Shaq in fta (12) and mp (47). The only player who scored more points was Sheed.

The only thing Kobe didn't do well that game was hit his free throws (6-12).

Well the opening post covered that- clearly Shaq was far more impactful than Kobe. Nothing further to really discuss there. Kobe was a beneficiary of Shaq drawing double teams on every play, while bad defenders like Damon guarded Kobe.

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

Down the stretch? What are you talking about? In the 4th quarter both Shaq and Kobe scored 9 points. But Shaq was 3-3 FG while Kobe was 3-7 FG. More importantly, Shaq shot better in FT (not a typo): 3-4 FT for Shaq and 3-6 FT for Kobe. They both had the same amount of assists, blocks, and steals, and Shaq had 1 more rebound. This doesn't include Shaq's 5 fouls drawn

colts18 wrote:

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

Down the stretch? What are you talking about? In the 4th quarter both Shaq and Kobe scored 9 points. But Shaq was 3-3 FG while Kobe was 3-7 FG. More importantly, Shaq shot better in FT (not a typo): 3-4 FT for Shaq and 3-6 FT for Kobe. They both had the same amount of assists, blocks, and steals, and Shaq had 1 more rebound. This doesn't include Shaq's 5 fouls drawn

Don't ever get mad at Mr MoJo Risin. There's no need. Let him be.

Also, GREAT work. That's one of my favorite all-time games. Shaq and Kobe really pulled through in the end. Brian Shaw was amazing, too.

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

I have to disagree with the TS who claims Shaq is doing something in this game no other Center is capable of doing. The Laker interior defence in this game and for the bulk of this series was getting torched by a guy that was like the 6th or 7th best PF in the NBA that year and "MDE" Shaq could do little if anything about it. This was the culmination of a series that the Lakers overall underwhelmed and were fortunate to escape the victors.

Moreso than Duncan in Game 7 of the 2005 Finals (at least cut him some slack given he was facing the defending champs and one of the greatest defensive teams ever) and Kobe in '10 Finals (facing the bulk of the '08 Celt title team) I personally can't think of a more underwhelming performance by a superstar than won with his team with their backs against the wall facing elimination.

FuShengTHEGreat wrote:

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

I have to disagree with the TS who claims Shaq is doing something in this game no other Center is capable of doing. The Laker interior defence in this game and for the bulk of this series was getting torched by a guy that was like the 6th or 7th best PF in the NBA that year and "MDE" Shaq could do little if anything about it. This was the culmination of a series that the Lakers overall underwhelmed and were fortunate to escape the victors.

Moreso than Duncan in Game 7 of the 2005 Finals (at least cut him some slack given he was facing the defending champs and one of the greatest defensive teams ever) and Kobe in '10 Finals (facing the bulk of the '08 Celt title team) I personally can't think of a more underwhelming performance by a superstar than won with his team with their backs against the wall facing elimination.

I agree. Even when Kobe had a bad shooting night in 10, he still had 15 rebounds. Shaq was suppose to be at his peak and being 7-1 and a rock 300 lbs, I wonder how in the hell he couldn't get double digit rebounds, especially after his inept game 6 peformance previously.

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

gee i can only imagine how many times Kobe's been bailed by Shaq

colts18 wrote:

Mr MoJo Risin wrote:Kobe dominated down the stretch of that game. Kobe out rebounded Shaq and out scored him also. Shaq was lucky Kobe was there to save him from another choke job performance which has hampered Shaq up to that point in his career.

Down the stretch? What are you talking about? In the 4th quarter both Shaq and Kobe scored 9 points. But Shaq was 3-3 FG while Kobe was 3-7 FG. More importantly, Shaq shot better in FT (not a typo): 3-4 FT for Shaq and 3-6 FT for Kobe. They both had the same amount of assists, blocks, and steals, and Shaq had 1 more rebound. This doesn't include Shaq's 5 fouls drawn

Game 7

Shaq 18 pts 9 rebounds 5 assists
Kobe 25 pts 11 rebounds 7 assists

Kobe took over the last few minutes of the game too. What does this say for Shaq so called greatest peak in NBA history?

Kobe also almost scored twice as many points more than Shaq in game 6. Greatest peak ever, I don't think so

I remember coaches and media members saying that teams followed the same fundamental strategies every game until they played the Lakers where they had to change strategies to handle Shaq.

Durins Baynes wrote:Well the opening post covered that- clearly Shaq was far more impactful than Kobe. Nothing further to really discuss there. Kobe was a beneficiary of Shaq drawing double teams on every play, while bad defenders like Damon guarded Kobe.

In other words, you haven't watched the game so you'll allow someone else to form your opinion.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about the OP's analysis. In the 1st quarter of that game Kobe drew 2 fouls off the ball so at an absolute minimum he should have 8 fouls drawn considering he went to the line 12 times. I suspect that Kobe had a few more off ball fouls the rest of the game, but I'll have to verify that when I have time.

If you watch the 1st quarter of that game you'll also see that Shaq is late on defense several times and that leads to easy scoring opportunities (both dunks by Wallace -- one missed). You also hear Walton commenting about how Shaq is playing sloppy (several bad passes out of doubles, hesitant other times, and forcing the action when triple-teamed instead of passing it out). Stu Lanz is also praising Kobe for boxing out and getting himself into better rebounding position than Shaq.

Shaq is definitely getting doubled every time he touches the ball, but that doesn't mean that it's making the game easier for everyone else every time it happens. As a matter of fact, Shaq being doubled only led to 2 scores in the quarter. Several times he threw errant passes (resulting in turnovers or the defense recovering) and quite a few more times he was forcing shots while being double/tripled-teamed with shooters wide open (Rice, Kobe, and Fisher on multiple occasion).

I'll have to rewatch the rest of the game to see for myself how much of an impact the doubling of Shaq is really having, but I think it's being blown out of proportion. That's not to say that Shaq isn't having the bigger impact, but I tend to think that this thread is only looking to discredit the game that Kobe had which was quite good.

Also, Stoudemire's defense on Kobe, despite his size disadvantage, was pretty good. He was pressing him when he brought the ball up and doing a good job of staying with him. Of course Kobe did get the drop on him several times but the Blazers always had someone rotate over to provide help.

Anyway, the point is that you actually have to watch the game and see how both players are impacting it. Just looking at how many shots were missed while guarding someone doesn't say much. Were those missed shots even contested (Sabonis missed several wide open shots, for example)? When Shaq or Kobe are throwing out of double teams are they doing it early enough so that it leads to a potential scoring opportunity? Are they sloppy passes?

I applaud the effort and think it's a good starting point for analyzing the game, but I think there's a lot more to it.

semi-sentient wrote:In other words, you haven't watched the game so you'll allow someone else to form your opinion.

Anyway, I'm not entirely sure about the OP's analysis. In the 1st quarter of that game Kobe drew 2 fouls off the ball so at an absolute minimum he should have 8 fouls drawn considering he went to the line 12 times. I suspect that Kobe had a few more off ball fouls the rest of the game, but I'll have to verify that when I have time.

I didn't count looseball fouls. Only fouls drawn on offense whether it was while dribbling, shooting, or offball. looseball fouls are random and don't require skill.

in these gane Kobe was better and maybe in these series in fact. kobe dominated in clucth and played great D. plus he orchestrated the offense.

In other words, you haven't watched the game so you'll allow someone else to form your opinion

No, in other words I agree with his opinion (that one anyway), and don't see the need to repeat arguments he's already raised simply because you trot out a one line post to the effect of "you're wrong".