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Who do you have, career wise peak wise prime wise, whatever you measure you think is most important, as the greatest small forward in NBA history? Is Bird still top dog or has LeBron vaulted him. If he hasn't overtaken him, what does he need to do to over take him?

Still Bird for career. Lebron in prolly 2yrs will surpass him for me

Lebron in a landslide. I seriously don't think it's even close. Call me crazy, but he's a good ways ahead of Bird already.

Bird
Doctor
Bron
Pipp

Lebron. Their accolades and longevity are nearly even right now (maybe even slight edge to Lebron), but Lebron is a flat out better basketball player.

What, no Grant Hill?

Alright, this has to be LeBron. His defense has to make up for any advantage Bird has on offense. He's really incredible.

LeBron
Bird
Dr. J
Pip

I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

LOL, if you held Bird to the same standard that you hold Lebron, I'm not sure Bird would be an all-star in your eyes. Guess it says a lot about Lebron.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Bird had proportionately more "disappointing" playoff/elimination games than LeBron.

Lebron because of versatility and because of his ability to defend. If Bias had lived, Bird would have moved back to PF I think.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

Jordan's basically the only guy whose disappointments aren't as glaring as others. That analogy works just as much to bird as it does to Lebron. Factoring in defence, career, peak and consistency Lebron might have already surpassed him or is just on the verge depending on who you ask really.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

I still think it's Bird, but you're really criticizing LeBron's performance in 2013 in ELIMINATION games?

Really?

His game 7 in the ECF wasn't uber transcendent or anything, but he led the Heat and crushed the Pacers.

His game 7 against the Spurs... 37-12-4, exceptional D, did pretty much everything, even drilled that jumper.

I mean, what else is there? Your boy Shaq got swept lots of times, I don't ever see you bringing up performance in elimination when it comes to him

kayess wrote:I still think it's Bird, but you're really criticizing LeBron's performance in 2013 in ELIMINATION games?

When I say "in elimination" I am referring to the playoff series (as a whole) that he got eliminated in.

Sure he played well down the stretch of the 2013 Finals but he struggled in the first few games and let his team get in a hole which they barely managed to dig themselves out of.
If he & Wade didn't explode in G6 and if Ray Allen hadn't hit that shot I can only imagine the kind of flack he would have gotten. Would have been 2011 all over again.

Your boy Shaq got swept lots of times, I don't ever see you bringing up performance in elimination when it comes to him.

I don't like to use team success against individuals unless for some reason I feel it is logical to do so.

I have given Shaq plenty of flack for years like 97 & 99 where he underperformed individually in elimination series.
However in most elimination series and the other series he got swept in he was absolutely dominant individually and not worthy of blame.

I don't blame Lebron when he performed well in elimination series either like in say 2009 against the Magic.

Hope you understand now what I was trying to say.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:If he & Wade didn't explode in G6 and if Ray Allen hadn't hit that shot I can only imagine the kind of flack he would have gotten. Would have been 2011 all over again.

When did Wade explode in game 6? LeBron went bananas by himself in that 4th quarter and without him bringing them all the way back Miami would have down a lot more than 5 in those final seconds.

He should get blame for the two turnovers but without him going crazy in the 4th the Heat probably lose the game by 10-15.

This is LeBron for me. As far as the box score production goes, he's clearly superior to Bird. As far as his all-around ability, LeBron is a comparable offensive player, if less portable, to Bird, and he's a far superior defensive player. He's also much more durable/reliable.

I'm taking LeBron.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:

kayess wrote:I still think it's Bird, but you're really criticizing LeBron's performance in 2013 in ELIMINATION games?

When I say "in elimination" I am referring to the playoff series (as a whole) that he got eliminated in.

Sure he played well down the stretch of the 2013 Finals but he struggled in the first few games and let his team get in a hole which they barely managed to dig themselves out of.
If he & Wade didn't explode in G6 and if Ray Allen hadn't hit that shot I can only imagine the kind of flack he would have gotten. Would have been 2011 all over again.

Your boy Shaq got swept lots of times, I don't ever see you bringing up performance in elimination when it comes to him.

I don't like to use team success against individuals unless for some reason I feel it is logical to do so.

I have given Shaq plenty of flack for years like 97 & 99 where he underperformed individually in elimination series.
However in most elimination series and the other series he got swept in he was absolutely dominant individually and not worthy of blame.

I don't blame Lebron when he performed well in elimination series either like in say 2009 against the Magic.

Hope you understand now what I was trying to say.

It's a little more understandable now - but it still doesn't quite hold up.

The "what-if" game in game 6 is so easy to play; here, I'll do that too - if Wade never went in and ruined the run the Heat were on, would we have remembered that as an epic LeBron game that would've eclipsed his game 7 performance?

The Heat came back through his drives and open 3s - he created almost everything during that run. Wade comes in, they're able to clog the paint again, and LeBron very nearly throws the game away with the TOs and the missed 3s (though he did hit one).

That's looking at the game as a whole - acknowledging his insane effort (even blocking Duncan once) to bring the Heat back, Wade ruining things, LeBron's TOs and missed 3s, and Ray Allen's 3.

You say quite rightly not to take team success against a player, but you didn't look at the game as a whole, too.

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

He can probably surpass Bird in the next 2-3 years though.

lol bird has dissapointed as well , for all of lebron's disappointments he'll end off with a much better trophy room then bird.

This is lebron's title , and if you haven't seen the light yet then it will be signed , sealed and delivered by the end of lebron's career. There is no doubt

Bird for career (but ask me again in a year).

imo:

Bird
Lebron
Dr. J
Baylor
Hondo
Pippen

(my 4-6 all clustered pretty close together)

RayBan-Sematra wrote:I still have Bird for Career & Peak.

Lebron is great but people forget all those years he disappointed in elimination (2013 was no exception).

Isn't LeBron the all time NBA career leader in elimination game ppg?