jaypo wrote:The bold above is the exact hypocrisy that I'm talking about. You laugh when I say that Shaq eliminated the Spurs (not the Lakers), and in the same sentence you say TD outperformed Shaq. THEY DIDN'T PLAY EACH OTHER!!! To give you a basketball lesson, Shaq was a CENTER and Duncan was a POWER FORWARD.
I love when you get all teary eyed. It actually makes me chuckle! Because the harder you try to tear down Shaq, the more ridiculous it makes you look! You think Shaq was Akeem's easiest opponent? The same Shaq that had more blocks, assists, rebounds, and shot almost 60% against him? I think DRob has a little something to say about that! Yes, Akeem shot a 3 over Shaq, and his TEAM won a title against Shaq's TEAM. His 2nd. And last. And yes, Shaq was sad at that point. But Shaq went on to win 4 titles, including 3 in a row. A feat few others, and NOT AKEEM, could achieve. He went on to score more points. More playoff points. A higher career FG% and PER. He had his jersey retired and is now in the HOF. He has a statue at the Staples Center alongside some of the GOATS in the game. I'm pretty sure that made up for all the sad "feels" he had in 1995.
And when he looks at his trophy case, which has a lot more hardware in it than Akeem's (twice as many Obrien trophies!!), I'm sure your opinions of him based on his status above Akeem on the GOAT list don't really mean too much!
Scoffs. I don't care about who was a PF and who was a C all I know TD was the only player in the NBA during Shaq's peak capable of rebounding and scoring, shotblocking just as good as he could in a playoff series that could eat away at his dominance and you know it. No GOAT level series by Shaq to be seen of course when Tim was there. Even when DRob was barely a factor un 02 Shaq was still following Kobe's lead.
He knew how to pile on the stats facing creampuff frontcourts in 3 consecutive Finals. He surely didnt have to face anybody of the calibre of the 67-15 1986 Celtics like Hakeem in his 2nd year did. But hey at least Hakeem's team in his 1st Finals appearance actually won games lol. So that "rings total" thing means nothing to me, especially given Hakeem went right through Shaq himself for one of his rings.
The same way I feel about the Utah Jazz Hakeem had to go through in the 95 playoffs where Karl Malone put up a 30/13 series and unfortunately his team lost in the 1st rd as Hakeem was a bit better offensively than him and Clyde stepped up huge.
Of course..... Karl Malone was Shaq's playoff daddy but that's another story lol.
The only crying I see is done by you trying to conjure up whatever statistical figures and pointing fingers at various teammates to save face for your hero getting abused when facing defeat vs the biggest opponent of his career. You're forever going to fail to rewrite history my friend.
The only time is Shaq's professional career he was reduced to crying on camera. Shaq was the teary eyed one lol. "I'll be a man and admit it Hakeem dusted my butt! "
2 teammates that won titles with peak Shaq don't even consider him the best C they've played with or against.....and none of them are Kobe Bryant. I won't hold by breath waiting for any of Hakeems ex teammates to rate Shaq on a higher GOAT plateau,lol.
I actually counted at least 5 years that Shaq put up numbers better than TD's BEST year. And if TD could "eat away Shaq's dominance", then why didn't TD cover Shaq when they played head to head??? Again, different positions. That's like saying that MJ dominated KAJ. You keep ignoring context and comparing apples to sharks! But whatever. Anything to try to make sense of your history rewrites.
In one of the years you are clinging to, Shaq AVERAGED 30.7, 15.4, 2.4 BPG, and shot 57% from the field in the playoffs. Again, the closest TD ever came to that (in an attempt to "eat away at Shaq's dominance") was 27.6, 14.4, and 4.3 on 45%. The very same year Shaq averaged 28.5, 12.6, and 2.5 on 54%. So the best year TD had in the playoffs weren't even better than Shaq's in the SAME YEAR, much less better than Shaq's best. In that time span, TD was SPANKED head to head vs. Stoudamire. Did Shaq ever have a playoff series where HIS DIRECT COUNTERPART averaged more than 10 ppg than he did?
News flash about competition- most frontcourts were creampuffs BECAUSE of Shaq! Deke- not a creampuff. Akeem-not a creampuff. Sabonis- not a creampuff. 7'4" Smitz- not a creampuff. Let's pick on the weakest- Smitz. Head to head, Shaq averaged 28.2, 12.7, and 54.3%. Akeem averaged 23.1 and 11.1 on 52% from the field. The gap between the players and Smits is in Shaq's favor. Looks like Shaq was able to handle that "creampuff" better than your BFF was. Let's look at Sabas- Shaq- 27.7, 12.2 on 53.3%. Dream- 17.0, 7.1 on 44.3%. And the gap between the players and Sabas is even larger in Shaq's favor than vs. Smits. Now, vs. Deke- Shaq- 21.5, 12.3 on 53%. Dream- 22.6, 10.6, 49%. Looks like Dream did better, huh? But let's put context in there. You LOVE to point out that Deke averaged a lot of points Vs. Shaq in their finals (albeit with a 16.2 ppg differential!). But head to head total, Deke averaged 11.5 vs. Dream (11.6 differential) and 7.5 vs. Shaq (14 point differential). So your "creampuff" argument just went up in smoke just like all your others.
One of those teammates you mentioned was Horry, and he also had negative things to say about Pop and TD. In case you didn't realize, the players are actual people with actual human biases. I tend to factor that stuff in. Regardless, I don't think Shaq was the best skilled player out of the 2. I've said that many times. But he was the better center and had better results in his career. More points. More efficiency. All resulted in more titles.
I conjur up statistical figures because they take the bias out of discussion. When I say that a player that scores 28 points on high efficiency in a close game played better than someone that put up 25 points on low efficiency, it's simple logic backed up by stats. I try to find those stats to take bias out of the equation. But you try to bend logic any way you can to fit your agenda. No matter how you look at it, 2 plus 2 still equals 4. Which is why I am confident in my discussions. Plus the fact that the majority of NBA experts echo my sentiments!