Peaks: Lebron vs Jordan vs Shaq vs Hakeem

[aol4532]

Lebron has yet to beat a 60+ win team to win his championships.

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I'm not sure why you are simply narrowing it to his championships, but given your very narrow specifications that would leave only one season (last year) since the season before there was a lockout (practically impossible to win 60+ games when there were only 66 out there). During the 2011-12 season, the Heat beat the Celtics (39-27, a 59 win%) and the Thunder (47-19, a 71 win%).

Yes, I do realize that 11-12 was the lockout season. What I meant to say was that he never beat a team that extrapolated to 60 wins, and 71% = 58 wins out of 82.

[Reservoirdawgs]

What I meant to say was that he never beat a team that extrapolated to 60 wins, and 71% = 58 wins out of 82.

That's a fairly meaningless and arbitrary number to use though given all of the different variables that go through the regular season (and silly...he has beaten 60+ win teams in the playoffs before, you are just limiting it to his 'championship' teams as if that really means anything). If he was only beating 40-win teams then that would be one thing, but the Heat were going through tough defensive teams.

2011-12
Knicks - 5th DRtg
Celtics - 1 DRtg
(the easiest defensive team he played was the WC champions, Oklahoma City Thunder at #11 DRtg)

2012-13
Pacers - 1st DRtg
Spurs - 3rd DRtg

[Gregoire]

Right now:
1. Jordan 90-92 7.0 offense + 2,5 defense
2. Shaq 2000 6,0 offense + 3,0 defense
Lebron 2013 6,5 offense + 2,5 defense
Hakeem 1993 5,0 offense + 4,0 defense

[Gregoire]

From thread responces:

MJ - 11 votes
Shaq - 5 votes
Hakeem - 2 votes
Lebron - 0 votes (!)
Old era bias?

[Gregoire]

Plenty of guys could of have done what Hakeem did and win a title when the defending champions lose the best player in the league and the #1 seed in your conference who is your nememis is out of the playoffs early on. Now had Hakeem got thru the Sonics and Bulls that would be a different story. Hakeem had HCA in each series and was even down 3-2 in a series with it, something that didn't happen with some all time greats with HCA.

I'd like to know a list of NBA greats that could've led the 93-94 playoff Rockets in all major statistical categories like Hakeem did, given no one before or since has performed such a feat. Jordan certainly isn't one of them. You couldn't suffer 3 straight lousy games a la 'MJ BEFORE he retired in 93 vs. NY to start a series and expect to get out of the West in Hakeem's shoes. In fact ya boy was down 0-2 to start that series, so your "argument" is quite laughable.

Your hero wasn't ever much of a problem for Hakeem and the Rockets, not exactly sure the benefit was in "avoiding" him.

How you rank these 4 peaks?

[SuperJobs]

Overall impact:

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq
4. Lebron

[Gregoire]

Overall impact:

1. Jordan
2. Hakeem
3. Shaq
4. Lebron

Good list, but disagree aout lebron last...

[PaulieWal]

Very interesting thread.

Number 1 will be obvious. Jordan 90, 91, 92 was finally playing with his team and leading them to titles. He was a force on both ends of the floor. Absolutely dominant.

Shaq will be #2 for me. This is the stretch when he earned the "Most Dominant Ever" title. He was dominant and absolutely unguardable most nights.

LeBron will be my #3 here. In 2012 he was majestic and broke out the newly learned post game. 2013 RS he took it another level. He was very good in the playoffs until the Finals where he struggled a bit but had a superb game 7. Wade and Bosh being shell of themselves didn't help though.

Hakeem will be #4 here. I absolutely dislike when people say he wouldn't have won if Jordan was in the league. No way Jordan was winning 8 in a row. It is hard to win 3 in a row much less 8 because of fatigue (emotional, mental, and physical).

To be honest, a lot of these rankings are just based on who you prefer, who you like, and how you view the game. When you have 4 all-timers like this, can't really go wrong with any.

[Gregoire]

Very interesting thread.

Number 1 will be obvious. Jordan 90, 91, 92 was finally playing with his team and leading them to titles. He was a force on both ends of the floor. Absolutely dominant.

Shaq will be #2 for me. This is the stretch when he earned the "Most Dominant Ever" title. He was dominant and absolutely unguardable most nights.

LeBron will be my #3 here. In 2012 he was majestic and broke out the newly learned post game. 2013 RS he took it another level. He was very good in the playoffs until the Finals where he struggled a bit but had a superb game 7. Wade and Bosh being shell of themselves didn't help though.

Hakeem will be #4 here. I absolutely dislike when people say he wouldn't have won if Jordan was in the league. No way Jordan was winning 8 in a row. It is hard to win 3 in a row much less 8 because of fatigue (emotional, mental, and physical).

To be honest, a lot of these rankings are just based on who you prefer, who you like, and how you view the game. When you have 4 all-timers like this, can't really go wrong with any.

Very nice list, Lebron in 2014 could became number 1 I think...

[aol4532]

Very interesting thread.

Number 1 will be obvious. Jordan 90, 91, 92 was finally playing with his team and leading them to titles. He was a force on both ends of the floor. Absolutely dominant.

Shaq will be #2 for me. This is the stretch when he earned the "Most Dominant Ever" title. He was dominant and absolutely unguardable most nights.

LeBron will be my #3 here. In 2012 he was majestic and broke out the newly learned post game. 2013 RS he took it another level. He was very good in the playoffs until the Finals where he struggled a bit but had a superb game 7. Wade and Bosh being shell of themselves didn't help though.

Hakeem will be #4 here. I absolutely dislike when people say he wouldn't have won if Jordan was in the league. No way Jordan was winning 8 in a row. It is hard to win 3 in a row much less 8 because of fatigue (emotional, mental, and physical).

To be honest, a lot of these rankings are just based on who you prefer, who you like, and how you view the game. When you have 4 all-timers like this, can't really go wrong with any.

You could make a case that if Jordan had played those 2 years, he would have won even less. 2 extra years + postseason = more wear and tear and increased chances of injuries. Considering that it took them 7 games to beat the Pacers, and was actually trailing by 7 with 5 min left in game 7, the wear and tear could have meant the difference. Winning in 93-94 would only have made up for it(the wrong assumption here is that Jordan would have maintained exactly that level of play in 97-98, if he had played those 2 years). Any major injury at all and no championships in 95-97 also.

[Gregoire]

I think if Jordan didnt retire in those two years, in 94 Bulls still won and in 95 Rockets beat them.

[Gregoire]

Durant 14 so far could belong to the discussion IMO...

[Quotatious]

Durant 14 so far could belong to the discussion IMO...

Yeah, he belongs, and I have a feeling that he'll still belong after the playoffs are over. This is not to say that I think he'll necessarily lead the Thunder to a championship (it's possible, but there are like five or six teams with equal chances to win it all as OKC), but looking at his three previous years in the playoffs, he usually sustained his regular season production in the playoffs. He's also a pretty good defender right now. Not DPOY level like Hakeem, MJ, LBJ and Shaq, but he probably should get some consideration for the All-Defensive 2nd team, looking at how good the Thunder defense is right now, without a real defensive anchor (Durant and Ibaka should IMO be credited the most for it).

I don't think Durant will have a really good case over any of these four guys here, at least not yet this season, but he seems to be close enough to be mentioned in this comparison, and even if he'll be clearly the last player here, it won't be a huge gap between him and the others.

[juice4080]

jordan is my favorite player and the GOAT but in retrospect i think shaq and hakeem at their best were more impactful than jordan....lebron james got no business being mentioned when talking about greatest peaks

Shaq
Hakeem
Jordan


Lebron

[Basketballefan]

Durant 14 so far could belong to the discussion IMO...

Um no. Maybe if he has a dominant playoff run and wins a ring.

[Gregoire]

Durant 14 so far could belong to the discussion IMO...

Um no. Maybe if he has a dominant playoff run and wins a ring.

How do you rank these 5?

[KyletheDingbat]

Plenty of guys could of have done what Hakeem did and win a title when the defending champions lose the best player in the league and the #1 seed in your conference who is your nememis is out of the playoffs early on. Now had Hakeem got thru the Sonics and Bulls that would be a different story. Hakeem had HCA in each series and was even down 3-2 in a series with it, something that didn't happen with some all time greats with HCA.

I'd like to know a list of NBA greats that could've led the 93-94 playoff Rockets in all major statistical categories like Hakeem did, given no one before or since has performed such a feat. Jordan certainly isn't one of them. You couldn't suffer 3 straight lousy games a la 'MJ BEFORE he retired in 93 vs. NY to start a series and expect to get out of the West in Hakeem's shoes. In fact ya boy was down 0-2 to start that series, so your "argument" is quite laughable.

Your hero wasn't ever much of a problem for Hakeem and the Rockets, not exactly sure the benefit was in "avoiding" him.

It must suck to have your opinion and know that Hakeem only won the two years Jordan was playing baseball.

[nolunch]

1. Shaq
2. MJ
3. Haleem
4. Lebron

[Brooklyn_34]

1. MJ

2. Shaq
3. LBJ
4. Hakeem

[Basketballefan]

Durant 14 so far could belong to the discussion IMO...

Um no. Maybe if he has a dominant playoff run and wins a ring.

How do you rank these 5?

Would go:
1. Mj
2. Shaq
3. Hakeem
4. Lebron
with lebron and hekeem being very close Durant is not yet near these guys.