Where do you rank Dr. J in your ATL?

ardee · Post #1 » by **ardee** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:51 am

I've seen him from 9-10 down to the mid 20s.

He's a confusing player and I've recently begun to appreciate him more again.

What are your thoughts on him?

Post #2 » by **Quotatious** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:43 am

I don't really have an all-time list, but I imagine it wouldn't be far below BIrd, so 11-15 range seems right (obviously I'd factor in his ABA play, he peaked in '76 after all).

JordansBulls · Post #3 » by **JordansBulls** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:35 am

ardee wrote:I've seen him from 9-10 down to the mid 20s.

He's a confusing player and I've recently begun to appreciate him more again.

What are your thoughts on him?

Outside of the top 10 between 11 to 15.

Okada · Post #4 » by **Okada** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:36 am

About 15th for me too.

Grandpa Waiters · Post #5 » by **Grandpa Waiters** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:06 am

Overrated as a player. Had all the tools to be Jordan/Kobe like but was a bit unpolished and never improved his weaknesses. Average ball handler and couldn't hit a 15 footer. Gets the benefit of the doubt because he was an eloquent spokesman and ambassador for two leagues (ABA and NBA) at a time when both leagues were struggling. Played his best ball in an inferior league and when he transitioned to the NBA in 1977 his stats went down across the board. Led Sixers to a 2-0 lead in the '77 Finals only to drop four straight to Blazers. Lost game 6 of the 1980 Finals at home with Kareem back in LA. Got outplayed by Magic (42/15/7) and Jamaal Wilkes (37). Blew a 3-1 lead against Boston in the '81 ECF by losing games 5/6/7 by a combined total of FIVE points. Blew a 3-1 lead to the Celts in the '82 ECF only to win game 7 at Boston and then LOSE the Finals to the Lakers. Won the title in '83 only after picking up the reigning league MVP (Moses Malone) but lost to the New Jersey Nets in the first round of the '84 playoffs while trying to defend their title. Michael Jordan is everything he COULD'VE been. As it stands, I have him ranked between 20-25 more so because of what he meant to the game vs what he accomplished.

Narigo · Post #6 » by **Narigo** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:19 am

I have him around 11th -15th range with KG, Kobe, Oscar, and West

ceiling raiser · Post #7 » by **ceiling raiser** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:20 am

Don't have an ATL, but I rate him higher than most, in no small part due to his defense.

I think coming into the NBA when he did was probably unfortunate for him. He carried some teams deep into the playoffs, but with no 3pt line (even when it wasn't a weapon, opponents still had to respect the shot) there were two bigs in the paint almost every half-court possession, preventing the drive.

Not a huge fan of his handles/jumper, but I don't think he was a liability in either regard for his position.

EDIT: But bottom line, I'd say I rate him much higher than most.

CaliBullsFan · Post #8 » by **CaliBullsFan** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:35 am

In the 20-30 range with players like Stockton, Karl Malone, Frazier, Robinson etc

Post #9 » by **trex_8063** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:35 am

I've had him in the 13-15 range for the last couple years. Behind guys like Kobe, Hakeem, Bird; but ahead of guys like Barkley, DRob, Moses.

boquilla · Post #10 » by **boquilla** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:36 am

12-15

Basketballefan · Post #11 » by **Basketballefan** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:24 am

He's firmly in my top 20 but not top 15, 16-18 range.

RSCD3_ · Post #12 » by **RSCD3_** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:43 am

Technically, the nba wasnt that much stronger in terms of weaker league. You could say he played with weaker talent but so did the nba'ers of that period. Until 76 than all the talent was put back together.

Id probably have him between 12-16

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Grandpa Waiters · Post #13 » by **Grandpa Waiters** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 5:54 am

RSCD3_ wrote:Technically, the nba wasnt that much stronger in terms of weaker league. You could say he played with weaker talent but so did the nba'ers of that period. Until 76 than all the talent was put back together.

Id probably have him between 12-16

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Nope. If Dr. J came to the NBA in '77 and his stats remained constant you could argue that the two leagues (NBA and ABA) were on par talent wise. If he came in and his stats exploded you could argue that the NBA was a weaker league. However, his stats (especially scoring) decreased across the board when he arrived in '77. You can make the best case by arguing that the NBA was that much better and had superior talent and that's why his numbers tanked.

Drummer Boy · Post #14 » by **Drummer Boy** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:37 am

Top 30-35 for me. His play came to screeching halt once he hit the NBA, and the only time he won, it was due to a peak Moses. It's actually debatable as to who's better between him and Pippen

G35 · Post #15 » by **G35** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 6:50 am

boquilla wrote:12-15

Went to 4 NBA finals.

Beat Bird's Celtics twice in the playoff's. Swept Magic and Kareem.

Who else could have done better in that position......

D Nice · Post #16 » by **D Nice** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 7:41 am

All-time he's 13-14 for me, Peak he's 20-21 (undecided between him and Nash at the moment for peak).

Post #17 » by **Quotatious** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:22 am

Drummer Boy wrote:Top 30-35 for me. His play came to screeching halt once he hit the NBA, and the only time he won, it was due to a peak Moses. It's actually debatable as to who's better between him and Pippen

You're probably the first person I've ever seen who thinks that Erving vs Pippen is debatable.

You're wrong that Doc was just a shell of his former self once he got to the NBA. He was the best player in the NBA alongside Kareem (and briefly Walton) from 1976-77 to 1978-79, and I'd say he was better than Magic and Bird from 1979-80 to 1981-82. He also won the MVP in 1981, so I don't know how you can really say what you actually said, with a straight face.

Laimbeer · Post #18 » by **Laimbeer** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:02 pm

G35 wrote:
boquilla wrote:12-15

Went to 4 NBA finals.

Beat Bird's Celtics twice in the playoff's. Swept Magic and Kareem.

Who else could have done better in that position......

You have to remember when Moses was the guy, though.

Laimbeer · Post #19 » by **Laimbeer** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:04 pm

Quotatious wrote:
Drummer Boy wrote:Top 30-35 for me. His play came to screeching halt once he hit the NBA, and the only time he won, it was due to a peak Moses. It's actually debatable as to who's better between him and Pippen

You're probably the first person I've ever seen who thinks that Erving vs Pippen is debatable.

You're new here, so you missed the Wilt/Wade and Russell/Bol debates. At realgm, all things are possible.

Basketballefan · Post #20 » by **Basketballefan** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:41 pm

Drummer Boy wrote:Top 30-35 for me

Get serious now..