Larry Bird Was a Power Forward, NOT a SF
Posted: Thu Mar 6, 2014 3:06 am
This misnomer keeps getting spread around lazily by uneducated people that Bird was a Small Forward, thus making it easier for said uneducated people to suggest he was a bad defender, or "slow", or "unathletic", which makes any comparisons to Bron not only pointless and stupid, but ignorant.
Couple facts:
1.) He was drafted out of ISU as a POWER FORWARD.
2.) He started the first FIVE seasons of his career (80-84) at POWER FORWARD. (even basketball-ref shows this) Some argue that at this time he was just simply a "combo forward", which really isn't the case at all. He was so versatile he COULD and DID play some minutes at SF (same way early Duncan played spot minutes at C), but the fact is he led the Celts in rebounding his first FOUR seasons (yes, even over Robert Parish) and Maxwell was nowhere even CLOSE (Bird basically doubled Max's rebounding in 84). Small forwards don't typically go around averaging 10.5 rebounds a game their first SIX seasons in the league. People will try and use Shawn Marion as an excuse, but Marion played POWER FORWARD in Phoenix most years, and he didn't have to contend with any other serious glass cleaner as Amare was and always has been a mediocre rebounder at best.
3.) The ONLY reason he was moved to the 3 is b/c McHale became so good KC had to stick him in the starting lineup. They essentially started 2 PF's in the lineup, and it was only successful b/c both Bird and McHale were versatile defenders who could guard multiple positions (especially McHale before his foot got messed up).
4.) Even Michael Jordan said, and I quote: "Larry is far better than any small forward who played the game, and to be honest, I'm still not sure if he is a small forward or a power forward."
5.) When you view Bird as A POWER FORWARD, which he was, you see his "athleticism" in a completely different light. Hell, even his first 7 seasons he was well above average athletically even if you view him as a SF.
But as a PF...he was basically the precursor to the stretch 4 we see today. Only quicker and more agile. Had the same vert as Karl Malone (28''). Had a more than respectable wingspan and standing reach. Was closer to 6-10 than 6-9, and literally dwarfed most "small forwards" from his era.
6.) People lie and claim they "hid" Bird on defense. Uh...NO. Bird guarded MOSTLY PF's. Watch ACTUAL tape. Yes he defended some SF's and even some Centers, but NO Small Forward, especially from that era, is gonna stand toe to toe with Moses Malone on the glass, or guard Kevin Willis well. Bird was able to do that, and do is consistently well. His schtick on defense was playing cornerback; they already had shotblockers in McHale and Parish, Bird provided the roaming baseline to baseline action they needed to annoy teams.
7.) And this is the big one here, that should put an end to this idiotic nonsense about Bird vs. Lebron or this and that (btw Lebron still has a LOT to prove before he can even be compared to Bird, Small Forward or not) -
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=trb_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=g&c2comp=gt&c2val=500&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
That's a list of all the forwards in NBA HISTORY who averaged 10+ rebounds/game for their career in atleast 500 games. ONLY forwards, so no Centers masquerading as PF's like Duncan, or guys that split time between the positions, only TRUE forwards.
EIGHT GUYS. 8.
Malone, Barkley, Rodman, Bird, Debucherre, Garnett, Hairston, and Baylor.
3 of those guys played in an era where stats are so skewed and overrated as to not even be taken seriously, especially Baylor's. They'll never be duplicated again, for good reason.
Since the MERGER though, only FIVE forwards in NBA HISTORY have averaged 10+ boards a game for their career.
Bird and four other PF's.
And NO ONE tries to claim Rodman, or Barkley were "combo forwards" or "small forwards". Just because you start your career as a SF in their case, doesn't mean they didn't play the significant portion of their careers at the 4, b/c that's EXACTLY what they did.
So...
either Bird is BY FAR the greatest rebounding SF in modern NBA history, who was able to guard and fight guys on the glass like Moses Malone and Kevin Willis...and who outrebounded Kevin freakin McHale every season, and even Parish most of the time.
Or He's just the greatest PASSING PF of all time, who btw, unlike most true SF's, didn't play a second at point forward, and who accumulated just about every single assist out of the high or low post.
Which one sounds more realistic? Exactly...
Just b/c he's labeled as a SF doesn't mean that's what he was.
Couple facts:
1.) He was drafted out of ISU as a POWER FORWARD.
2.) He started the first FIVE seasons of his career (80-84) at POWER FORWARD. (even basketball-ref shows this) Some argue that at this time he was just simply a "combo forward", which really isn't the case at all. He was so versatile he COULD and DID play some minutes at SF (same way early Duncan played spot minutes at C), but the fact is he led the Celts in rebounding his first FOUR seasons (yes, even over Robert Parish) and Maxwell was nowhere even CLOSE (Bird basically doubled Max's rebounding in 84). Small forwards don't typically go around averaging 10.5 rebounds a game their first SIX seasons in the league. People will try and use Shawn Marion as an excuse, but Marion played POWER FORWARD in Phoenix most years, and he didn't have to contend with any other serious glass cleaner as Amare was and always has been a mediocre rebounder at best.
3.) The ONLY reason he was moved to the 3 is b/c McHale became so good KC had to stick him in the starting lineup. They essentially started 2 PF's in the lineup, and it was only successful b/c both Bird and McHale were versatile defenders who could guard multiple positions (especially McHale before his foot got messed up).
4.) Even Michael Jordan said, and I quote: "Larry is far better than any small forward who played the game, and to be honest, I'm still not sure if he is a small forward or a power forward."
5.) When you view Bird as A POWER FORWARD, which he was, you see his "athleticism" in a completely different light. Hell, even his first 7 seasons he was well above average athletically even if you view him as a SF.
But as a PF...he was basically the precursor to the stretch 4 we see today. Only quicker and more agile. Had the same vert as Karl Malone (28''). Had a more than respectable wingspan and standing reach. Was closer to 6-10 than 6-9, and literally dwarfed most "small forwards" from his era.
6.) People lie and claim they "hid" Bird on defense. Uh...NO. Bird guarded MOSTLY PF's. Watch ACTUAL tape. Yes he defended some SF's and even some Centers, but NO Small Forward, especially from that era, is gonna stand toe to toe with Moses Malone on the glass, or guard Kevin Willis well. Bird was able to do that, and do is consistently well. His schtick on defense was playing cornerback; they already had shotblockers in McHale and Parish, Bird provided the roaming baseline to baseline action they needed to annoy teams.
7.) And this is the big one here, that should put an end to this idiotic nonsense about Bird vs. Lebron or this and that (btw Lebron still has a LOT to prove before he can even be compared to Bird, Small Forward or not) -
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=combined&type=per_game&per_minute_base=36&lg_id=NBA&is_playoffs=N&year_min=&year_max=&franch_id=&season_start=1&season_end=-1&age_min=0&age_max=99&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&birth_country=&is_active=&is_hof=&is_as=&as_comp=gt&as_val=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&qual=&c1stat=trb_per_g&c1comp=gt&c1val=10&c2stat=g&c2comp=gt&c2val=500&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&c5stat=&c5comp=gt&c6mult=1.0&c6stat=&order_by=ws
That's a list of all the forwards in NBA HISTORY who averaged 10+ rebounds/game for their career in atleast 500 games. ONLY forwards, so no Centers masquerading as PF's like Duncan, or guys that split time between the positions, only TRUE forwards.
EIGHT GUYS. 8.
Malone, Barkley, Rodman, Bird, Debucherre, Garnett, Hairston, and Baylor.
3 of those guys played in an era where stats are so skewed and overrated as to not even be taken seriously, especially Baylor's. They'll never be duplicated again, for good reason.
Since the MERGER though, only FIVE forwards in NBA HISTORY have averaged 10+ boards a game for their career.
Bird and four other PF's.
And NO ONE tries to claim Rodman, or Barkley were "combo forwards" or "small forwards". Just because you start your career as a SF in their case, doesn't mean they didn't play the significant portion of their careers at the 4, b/c that's EXACTLY what they did.
So...
either Bird is BY FAR the greatest rebounding SF in modern NBA history, who was able to guard and fight guys on the glass like Moses Malone and Kevin Willis...and who outrebounded Kevin freakin McHale every season, and even Parish most of the time.
Or He's just the greatest PASSING PF of all time, who btw, unlike most true SF's, didn't play a second at point forward, and who accumulated just about every single assist out of the high or low post.
Which one sounds more realistic? Exactly...
Just b/c he's labeled as a SF doesn't mean that's what he was.
