RealGM

Okay, there was an idea for having a "Top 100" project based on just tallying up people's lists. I object to that as a replacement for what we normally do because it defeats the educational purpose of the project. However, there's no reason we can't do it in addition to the other longer project.

So here's how it will work:

Send me your lists by Friday night, and if I get enough data, I'll make weighted list.

If you don't have a Top 100 list, just a Top X list, you can send me that as well, but I'll say up front that I'm not sure how I'll handle that until I see what I have to work with.

Sorry for the condensed timeframe, but I was busy with other stuff, and I leave on a trip in a week, so it has to be by then.

If I decide there's not enough to make a list with I'll let you know, and I may make the weighted list when I get back (2 weeks later).

Users may post their lists here, but they don't need to.

The lists I will tally up will be the ones PMed to me.

Anyone can send me their list, and I don't intend to ignore anyone's list, but I will also use my own judgment on this. The nature of weighted lists like this is that one person can manipulate the results by ranking someone purposefully way too low. If I see such things, I won't tolerate it.

Let me know if you have any questions.

For the record: This is going to push me to make my own updated quick & dirty list which I don't intend to publish - but will benefit my own analysis. I will however publish my "final draft" list at the end (or toward the end) of penbeast0's project.

Doctor MJ wrote:For the record: This is going to push me to make my own updated quick & dirty list which I don't intend to publish - but will benefit my own analysis. I will however publish my "final draft" list at the end (or toward the end) of penbeast0's project.

This is my thought entirely.

How long do we have to submit lists?

Well, let's go. Top 75. Haven't updated the lower tiers (below #30 or so) in some time, though. Looking to do it in this project. So... sorry if the list isn't that consistent.

So do you want a list of the top 100 players from each of us and if via this thread or PM?

JordansBulls wrote:So do you want a list of the top 100 players from each of us and if via this thread or PM?

The answers to your questions are all in the OP.

fpliii wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:For the record: This is going to push me to make my own updated quick & dirty list which I don't intend to publish - but will benefit my own analysis. I will however publish my "final draft" list at the end (or toward the end) of penbeast0's project.

This is my thought entirely.

How long do we have to submit lists?

Doctor MJ wrote:So here's how it will work:

Send me your lists by Friday night […].

ThaRegul8r wrote:

JordansBulls wrote:So do you want a list of the top 100 players from each of us and if via this thread or PM?

The answers to your questions are all in the OP.

fpliii wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:For the record: This is going to push me to make my own updated quick & dirty list which I don't intend to publish - but will benefit my own analysis. I will however publish my "final draft" list at the end (or toward the end) of penbeast0's project.

This is my thought entirely.

How long do we have to submit lists?

Doctor MJ wrote:So here's how it will work:

Send me your lists by Friday night […].

Reread it, thanks!!

ThaRegul8r wrote:

JordansBulls wrote:So do you want a list of the top 100 players from each of us and if via this thread or PM?

The answers to your questions are all in the OP.

fpliii wrote:

Doctor MJ wrote:For the record: This is going to push me to make my own updated quick & dirty list which I don't intend to publish - but will benefit my own analysis. I will however publish my "final draft" list at the end (or toward the end) of penbeast0's project.

This is my thought entirely.

How long do we have to submit lists?

Doctor MJ wrote:So here's how it will work:

Send me your lists by Friday night […].

Oops, poor form on my part. Thanks!

I can't be bothered PM'ing anything, but I'll post it here instead. My list would go something like:

1. Jordan
2. Kareem

3. Duncan
4. Magic
5. Shaq

6. Lebron
7. Bird
8. Russell
9. Wilt
10. Hakeem

11. Dr J
12. KG
13. K.Malone
14-16. D.Rob/Kobe/M.Malone
17. Barkley
18. Dirk
19. S.Nash
20. J.West

It gets hazy after that. I'd have Pippen in the top 25 though I think. I suppose Oscar too, overrated though he was.

My top-20 for beginning:

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Russell
5. Shaq
6. Bird
7. Duncan
8. Lebron
9. Magic
10. Hakeem
11. Oscar
12. Doctor J
13. Moses
14. Barkley
15. Robinson
16. Karl Malone
17. Kobe
18. KG
19.Dirk
20. West

Okay I'm bold enough to handle the potential mockery that comes with making this preliminary list public. I put a few comments in spots where I thought people might have some significant "huh, what?" moments. Please note that this is very rough and will certainly change.


Start with some disclaimers:



List:


1. Mr William Russell
2. Mike
3. KAJ



4. Duncan
5. Magic
6. Shaq



7. Lebron
8. Larry Legend
9. Wilt
10. Dream



11. Oscar
12. West
13. Kobe Bean
14. Dirk (see possible bias acknowledged at the top)
15. KG
16. David Robinson



17. Dr. J



18. Mailman
19. Moses
20. Chuck
21. Hondo
22. Walt Frazier
23. John Stockton
24. Bob Pettit
25. Scottie Pippen
26. Elgin Baylor
27. Jason Kidd
28. Patrick Ewing
29. Deke



30. Glove
31. Drexler
32. Steve Nash
33. Dwayne Wade
34. Rick Barry
35. Dave Cowens
36. Kevin Durant



37. Dennis Rodman



38. Isiah Thomas
39. The Truth
40. Carmelo Anthony



41. Gervin
42. Nique
43. Kevin McHale
44. Ray Allen
45. Reggie Miller
46. Bob Lanier
47. Dwight Howard
48. AI
49 Walton
50. Mikan

I actually think that's a pretty solid list, TC. Obviously, I don't have everything exactly the same as you, but I can understand the rankings, especially with the explanations.

My only question is with regards to Wade. He seems a little lower than on most lists. Did he drop mainly because of longevity (or lack thereof)?

therealbig3 wrote:
My only question is with regards to Wade. He seems a little lower than on most lists. Did he drop mainly because of longevity (or lack thereof)?

Obviously i am punishing him for 2006

Yeah longevity is a significant part of it. But mainly I was struggling with reasons to place him above the 5-6 guards immediately above him and was struggling with how to do so.

My top 55 (that's how far I've been able to get thus far, but it's obviously a subject to change, and really tentative, I'm not exactly satisfied with my consistency...):



I'm not able to give explanations for each and every player on the list individually (not yet), but generally, I'm pretty high on longevity, unless there's a significant difference in terms of quality (that's why I have Zo, T-Mac, KD or CP3 so high, despite their weak longevity). I try to balance everything out, find a golden mean as far as evaluating peak/prime play and longevity.

Texas Chuck wrote:

therealbig3 wrote:
My only question is with regards to Wade. He seems a little lower than on most lists. Did he drop mainly because of longevity (or lack thereof)?

Obviously i am punishing him for 2006

Yeah longevity is a significant part of it. But mainly I was struggling with reasons to place him above the 5-6 guards immediately above him and was struggling with how to do so.

Interesting to see Wade in the 30s. I mean it's your list but I would have expected him to be in the early 20s comfortably. Ironically you are one of the few Mavs' fans on the site that I have seen give him credit for the 06 Finals.

Texas Chuck wrote:Okay I'm bold enough to handle the potential mockery that comes with making this preliminary list public. I put a few comments in spots where I thought people might have some significant "huh, what?" moments. Please note that this is very rough and will certainly change.


Start with some disclaimers:

Spoiler:

I am a Mavericks fan. This only potentially impacts 3 players on my top 50 list: Dirk, Kidd, and Nash. Now none of Kidd's peak or prime occured in Dallas, but I look beyond that so some bias could trickle in. Nash obviously began his prime in Dallas, but none of his peak years, still potential for bias.

I'm mainly interested in the actual careers guys had in the actual circumstances they were faced with. I'm not very interested in how they would do playing 30 years before or after they actually did or how they would perform on a "random team" or if two contemporaries swapped circumstances.

List:


1. Mr William Russell
2. Mike
3. KAJ

Spoiler:

And this ends the portion of my list where I feel locked in on having guys in the exact spot. Please not e this does not mean I'm not open to changing even these guys as a result of the discussion in this project. I'm simply saying as of today from 4 down I'm still not 100% certain, but in my mind I'm locked on these guys in these specific spots as of this moment.

4. Duncan
5. Magic
6. Shaq

Spoiler:

I go back and forth and back again on this trio. I feel like they all should clearly be ranked higher than Lebron at 7 but amongst them I'm still open to shifting them and think this project will help me clarify this. A week ago I had Shaq at the top of this group so needless to say this isn't set in stone. No Duncan winning the title this year isnt why he moved up relative to Shaq.

7. Lebron
8. Larry Legend
9. Wilt
10. Dream

Spoiler:

Wilt and Dream are very polarizing players on the board and I look forward to hopefully some really intelligent discussion on them. I know both players have some very passionate supporters.

11. Oscar
12. West
13. Kobe Bean
14. Dirk (see possible bias acknowledged at the top)
15. KG
16. David Robinson

Spoiler:

This is another very difficult group of 6 for me. I feel good about the 3 guards in their order, and the three bigs in theirs. Not at all certain of how to intermix them. I think Oscar is better than Dirk and for that reason alone the guards are listed above the bigs.

17. Dr. J

Spoiler:

This may well be too low for Julius, but I have a hard time with the ABA/NBA era and even without that its hard for me to say he should go above Kobe or Admiral. People make take issue with me here.

18. Mailman
19. Moses
20. Chuck
21. Hondo
22. Walt Frazier
23. John Stockton
24. Bob Pettit
25. Scottie Pippen
26. Elgin Baylor
27. Jason Kidd
28. Patrick Ewing
29. Deke

Spoiler:

I know people are going to be stunned to see Deke in the top 30 and that may well in fact be too high, but I think his defense is badly underrated, as is his offense for that matter. I expect him to possibly slide on my list, but probably not far.

30. Glove
31. Drexler
32. Steve Nash
33. Dwayne Wade
34. Rick Barry
35. Dave Cowens
36. Kevin Durant

Spoiler:

I really struggle with where to include Durant. I think he projects to be much higher than this, but as of today he probably deserves to be lower. This was a rough compromise.

37. Dennis Rodman

Spoiler:

I know a lot of people dismiss him as a rebound hunter and feel like some of his defensive reputation is overblown. I think he was a much better player at both ends than he's given credit for and one of the smarter basketball players as well.

38. Isiah Thomas
39. The Truth
40. Carmelo Anthony

Spoiler:

See Kevin Durant. This is probably too high for him, but I'm including him for now. I could easily see him outside the top 50.

41. Gervin
42. Nique
43. Kevin McHale
44. Ray Allen
45. Reggie Miller
46. Bob Lanier
47. Dwight Howard
48. AI
49 Walton
50. Mikan

Spoiler:

Note: I don't know quite what to do with Walton and Mikan. But I'm sticking them at the bottom of my list because I believe them significant enough to belong in this discussion somewhere

Mutumbo over Wade is a joke, no offense.

Might as well put my top 30 on here.

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem
3. Magic Johnson
4. Wilt
5. Duncan
6. Shaq
7. Russell
8. Bird
9. Lebron
10. Kobe
11.Hakeem
12. Oscar
13. Jerry West
14. Moses Malone
15. Julius Earving
16. Karl Malone
17. Kevin Garnett
18. Dirk
19. Barkley
20. Wade
21. David Robinson
22. Rick Berry
23. Havlicek
24. Bob Pettit
25. Elgin Baylor
26. Stockton
27. Nash
28. Drexler
29. Pippen
30. Isiah Thomas

Quotatious wrote:My top 55 (that's how far I've been able to get thus far, but it's obviously a subject to change, and really tentative, I'm not exactly satisfied with my consistency...):

Spoiler:

1. Michael Jordan
2. Bill Russell
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
4. Hakeem Olajuwon
5. Tim Duncan
6. Shaquille O'Neal
7. LeBron James
8. Magic Johnson
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Larry Bird
11. Oscar Robertson
12. Dirk Nowitzki
13. Kevin Garnett
14. Kobe Bryant
15. Julius Erving
16. Jerry West
17. Moses Malone
18. Karl Malone
19. David Robinson
20. Steve Nash
21. Charles Barkley
22. Dwyane Wade
23. Bob Pettit
24. George Mikan
25. Walt Frazier
26. John Stockton
27. Scottie Pippen
28. Patrick Ewing
29. Clyde Drexler
30. Artis Gilmore
31. Elvin Hayes
32. John Havlicek
33. Jason Kidd
34. Rick Barry
35. Elgin Baylor
36. Isiah Thomas
37. George Gervin
38. Gary Payton
39. Paul Pierce
40. Dwight Howard
41. Dave Cowens
42. Chris Paul
43. Kevin Durant
44. Alex English
45. Kevin McHale
46. Alonzo Mourning
47. Tracy McGrady
48. Wes Unseld
49. Adrian Dantley
50. Robert Parish
51. Ray Allen
52. Reggie Miller
53. Allen Iverson
54. Dolph Schayes
55. Bob Cousy

I'm not able to give explanations for each and every player on the list individually (not yet), but generally, I'm pretty high on longevity, unless there's a significant difference in terms of quality (that's why I have Zo, T-Mac, KD or CP3 so high, despite their weak longevity). I try to balance everything out, find a golden mean as far as evaluating peak/prime play and longevity.

Not a bad list man, i think Kobe is a little low and Nash is too high. Magic too low as well but besides that seems pretty reasonable.

Quotatious wrote:My top 55...

You spelled No. 49's name wrong. It says "Adrian Dantley."

ElGee wrote:

Quotatious wrote:My top 55...

You spelled No. 49's name wrong. It says "Adrian Dantley."

No he didn't. (And yes, I've read all of your arguments on Dantley. )

I take more offense to his lofty ranking of Dwight Howard. But it's his rankings, and I applaud it; I'm still figuring out a top 20 that I'd be satisfied with...

Rough draft of my list....

1. Michael Jordan
2. Kareem Abdul Jabbar
3. Bill Russell
4. Tim Duncan
5. Shaquille O’Neal
6. Wilt Chameberlain
7. LeBron James
8. Magic Johnson
9. Larry Bird
10. Hakeem Olajuwon

11. Kevin Garnett
12. Julius Erving
13. Oscar Robertson
14. Kobe Bryant
15. Jerry West
16. Karl Malone
17. Dirk Nowitzki
18. David Robinson
19. Charles Barkley
20. Moses Malone

21. Bob Petitt
22. Dwyane Wade
23. Steve Nash
24. Walt Frazier
25. Patrick Ewing
26. Rick Barry
27. Clyde Drexler
28. Scottie Pippen
29. Paul Pierce
30. Elgin Baylor

31. John Stockton
32. Jason Kidd
33. George Gervin
34. Artis Gilmore
35. Chris Paul
36. John Havichek
37. Gary Payton
38. Isiah Thomas
39. Dwight Howard
40. Kevin Mchale

41. Robert Parish
42. Bob Lanier
43. Dave Cowens
44. Willis Reed
45. Dominque Wilkins
46. Alex English
47. Ray Allen
48. Kevin Johnson
49. Tracy McGrady
50. Kevin Durant


Maybe overrating Parish and Pierce a bit. Also I dont know if I should put Reed outside my top 50. His peak was really good but his longevity is really lacking.

Finally, i also thinking putting Kareem over Jordan.