RealGM

Take each player and surround them with a bunch of scrubs of equal ability (starters+bench).. Who wins in a best out of 7?

1v1 doesn't prove anything, what determines if one player is better than another is who would win if they had the same team surrounding them?

Edit: Scrubs on LeBron's team that suit his game, and scrubs on Jordan's that suit his.. Point being equal playing field, no all-star help..

I don't think it's fair to have the exact same players around them, as both their games are different and tailor-made for specific types of role players.

Greatness wrote:I don't think it's fair to have the exact same players around them, as both their games are different and tailor-made for specific types of role players.

Ok lets say then scrubs on LeBron's team that suit his game, and scrubs on Jordan's that suit his.. Point being equal playing field, no all-star help..

Whichever of the two has the "scrubs" that better suit his style of play.

EDIT: Just saw your edit. There's no way to put together equally potent supporting casts when both stars play differently. It's a 5-on-5 game, and teams beat other teams.

LeChosen One wrote:

Greatness wrote:I don't think it's fair to have the exact same players around them, as both their games are different and tailor-made for specific types of role players.

Ok lets say then scrubs on LeBron's team that suit his game, and scrubs on Jordan's that suit his.. Point being equal playing field, no all-star help..

Hmm, it's an interesting thought. I'm leaning towards picking LeBron because he carried those Cavs teams with solid role players (I don't like the "scrub" label) but no other stars to some pretty good success. MJ was struggling to make the playoffs in his earlier years with some pretty bad Bulls teams.

However it's tough to just use this basis as the primary argument because there's so many other variables that go into these things.

fpliii wrote:Whichever of the two has the "scrubs" that better suit his style of play.

EDIT: Just saw your edit. There's no way to put together equally potent supporting casts when both stars play differently. It's a 5-on-5 game, and teams beat other teams.

Ah my bad I didn't make it clear, whenever I see player vs player I just assume at their best.. I just pick a 3 year window or so when the player was at his absolute prime.. I guess for LeBron it would be now, Jordan's would vary

Greatness wrote:

LeChosen One wrote:

Greatness wrote:I don't think it's fair to have the exact same players around them, as both their games are different and tailor-made for specific types of role players.

Ok lets say then scrubs on LeBron's team that suit his game, and scrubs on Jordan's that suit his.. Point being equal playing field, no all-star help..

Hmm, it's an interesting thought. I'm leaning towards picking LeBron because he carried those Cavs teams with solid role players (I don't like the "scrub" label) but no other stars to some pretty good success. MJ was struggling to make the playoffs in his earlier years with some pretty bad Bulls teams.

However it's tough to just use this basis as the primary argument because there's so many other variables that go into these things.

What variables though lol? The question is simply asking who is the better 5v5 player when both teams are equal and catered to each others needs/strengths

Just a fun exercise

LeChosen One wrote:

Greatness wrote:

LeChosen One wrote:
Ok lets say then scrubs on LeBron's team that suit his game, and scrubs on Jordan's that suit his.. Point being equal playing field, no all-star help..

Hmm, it's an interesting thought. I'm leaning towards picking LeBron because he carried those Cavs teams with solid role players (I don't like the "scrub" label) but no other stars to some pretty good success. MJ was struggling to make the playoffs in his earlier years with some pretty bad Bulls teams.

However it's tough to just use this basis as the primary argument because there's so many other variables that go into these things.

What variables though lol? The question is simply asking who is the better 5v5 player when both teams are equal and catered to each others needs/strengths

Just a fun exercise

Coaching and era are two of them. But what I meant was that these types of questions are difficult to answer because we don't really have great evidence of either scenario occurring. And even if they did occur in both players' earlier years, the difference in era and competition is huge and we cannot ignore it.

Who's the coach? If it's Phil Jackson + MJ/Lebron + scrubs, I take MJ. If it's just joe schmoes coaching, I take Lebron.

rich316 wrote:Who's the coach? If it's Phil Jackson + MJ/Lebron + scrubs, I take MJ. If it's just joe schmoes coaching, I take Lebron.

A random, equal coach, who can get those players to play in a way that gets the most out of Jordan and LeBron's skill-sets

LOL people are making this way too hard.

I'd say MJ's team wins. He's more of a guy who will do whatever it takes, whereas Lebron has a tendency to know when he's lost. I think MJ's a little more talented and gets buckets a little easier, is more furious and has one more gear than Lebron. If it's a 7 game series I have MJ winning in 6.

Further breaking it down, I feel sorry for the SF who has to guard James. I guess he just stands back and lets Lebron shoot. Better than having LBJ getting everyone involved. Probably a point in the game where James takes over and MJ is forced to switch on him. Lebron probably bullies MJ on the block a few times but doesn't go to it enough.

On the other end they probably double or triple Jordan as soon as he crosses half court all game long. Make the other guys shoot. Foul Jordan hard when he comes into the lane. Switch Lebron onto him for the last five minutes when Jordan has been beaten up all game.

It would be a close game every time until the last few minutes. But Jordan has an easier time making plays against set defenses. Lebron has a tendency to turn it over or get himself in bad spots against crunch time defenses, and I think that's the difference. Also, Lebron still has a tendency to drift during games, which he has since high school. You can win championships like that in a Jordan-less league but I don't think you can do that against MJ.

KyletheDingbat wrote:LOL people are making this way too hard.

I'd say MJ's team wins. He's more of a guy who will do whatever it takes, whereas Lebron has a tendency to know when he's lost. I think MJ's a little more talented and gets buckets a little easier, is more furious and has one more gear than Lebron. If it's a 7 game series I have MJ winning in 6.

Further breaking it down, I feel sorry for the SF who has to guard James. I guess he just stands back and lets Lebron shoot. Better than having LBJ getting everyone involved. Probably a point in the game where James takes over and MJ is forced to switch on him. Lebron probably bullies MJ on the block a few times but doesn't go to it enough.

On the other end they probably double or triple Jordan as soon as he crosses half court all game long. Make the other guys shoot. Foul Jordan hard when he comes into the lane. Switch Lebron onto him for the last five minutes when Jordan has been beaten up all game.

It would be a close game every time until the last few minutes. But Jordan has an easier time making plays against set defenses. Lebron has a tendency to turn it over or get himself in bad spots against crunch time defenses, and I think that's the difference. Also, Lebron still has a tendency to drift during games, which he has since high school. You can win championships like that in a Jordan-less league but I don't think you can do that against MJ.

If this was 2011 I would agree with you.

magicmerl wrote:

KyletheDingbat wrote:LOL people are making this way too hard.

I'd say MJ's team wins. He's more of a guy who will do whatever it takes, whereas Lebron has a tendency to know when he's lost. I think MJ's a little more talented and gets buckets a little easier, is more furious and has one more gear than Lebron. If it's a 7 game series I have MJ winning in 6.

Further breaking it down, I feel sorry for the SF who has to guard James. I guess he just stands back and lets Lebron shoot. Better than having LBJ getting everyone involved. Probably a point in the game where James takes over and MJ is forced to switch on him. Lebron probably bullies MJ on the block a few times but doesn't go to it enough.

On the other end they probably double or triple Jordan as soon as he crosses half court all game long. Make the other guys shoot. Foul Jordan hard when he comes into the lane. Switch Lebron onto him for the last five minutes when Jordan has been beaten up all game.

It would be a close game every time until the last few minutes. But Jordan has an easier time making plays against set defenses. Lebron has a tendency to turn it over or get himself in bad spots against crunch time defenses, and I think that's the difference. Also, Lebron still has a tendency to drift during games, which he has since high school. You can win championships like that in a Jordan-less league but I don't think you can do that against MJ.

If this was 2011 I would agree with you.

Which part? In 2011 I don't think the series would even be close.

So this is basically a thinly veiled way of asking Lebron or Jordan?

Jordan is probably the better individual player and if your team is stacked he is probably the better choice.

But Lebron fills way more holes on a team. Lebron just lead an offense to the highest efg% of all time and as we saw in the finals that team wasn't as loaded as we thought. Lebron is also the more complete defender.

Stringcheese wrote:So this is basically a thinly veiled way of asking Lebron or Jordan?

Kind of.. When people compare player vs player they usually go for stats/accolades.. I haven't seen people compare players in this kind of way before so I thought I would give it a shot

It's to find out the better basketball player in the purest form, all things equal except the players themselves

LeChosen One wrote:

Stringcheese wrote:So this is basically a thinly veiled way of asking Lebron or Jordan?

Kind of.. When people compare player vs player they usually go for stats/accolades.. I haven't seen people compare players in this kind of way before so I thought I would give it a shot

It's to find out the better basketball player in the purest form, all things equal except the players themselves

Interestingly, we have some data on Jordan+Scrubs and LeBron+Scrubs...I think LeBron fared a bit better (which leads to the obvious next argument that LeBrons scrubs were better than Jordan's)

Stringcheese wrote:

LeChosen One wrote:

Stringcheese wrote:So this is basically a thinly veiled way of asking Lebron or Jordan?

Kind of.. When people compare player vs player they usually go for stats/accolades.. I haven't seen people compare players in this kind of way before so I thought I would give it a shot

It's to find out the better basketball player in the purest form, all things equal except the players themselves

Interestingly, we have some data on Jordan+Scrubs and LeBron+Scrubs...I think LeBron fared a bit better (which leads to the obvious next argument that LeBrons scrubs were better than Jordan's)

They didn't play each other though, lets keep it hypothetical

LeChosen One wrote:

Stringcheese wrote:So this is basically a thinly veiled way of asking Lebron or Jordan?

Kind of.. When people compare player vs player they usually go for stats/accolades.. I haven't seen people compare players in this kind of way before so I thought I would give it a shot

It's to find out the better basketball player in the purest form, all things equal except the players themselves

If all things are equal, then why do they all have to be scrubs? Why not have equally GOOD talent around them?

I think it changes the dynamics quite a bit.

Replace Jordan with Lebron on any one of those 90's Bulls teams that titled and I'd take Jordan's Bulls every time.

I think Jordan was easier to build Championship teams around than Lebron. That's the more valid way of measuring a player's greatness. Nobody GAF what a guy can do with scrubs.

Fwiw, with a team of scrubs I'd prolly go with Lebron.

All things being equal, never ever, NEVER EVER bet against Michael Jordan.