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Start a team, who do you take?

This is a close one, but I'd take LeBron. Wilt would still be a dominant atlhete, rebounder and defender/shotblocker today, still would average 20+ PPG, but it's been 40-50 years since he played in the NBA, so LeBron is just a safer bet, plus I just trust James a lot more in the postseason.

Currently have LeBron 7th, Wilt 8th on my list.

Before the 70s when you needed a dominant big to compete (before the 90s, the only team to EVER win a ring without a HOF big was Golden State in 75) . . . Wilt.

Once the rules were changed to penalize big men and aid slashers and 3 point shooters . . .possibly LeBron, though Wilt might have a field day on the weaker field of bigs that play in today's league.

Each in their own era with the appropriate rules, Wilt is clearly the more dominant.

I am leaning towards LBJ currently.

While I am confident that Wilt would be a dominant rebounder and a solid to elite defensive anchor in the current league I am far less confident that he'd be an offensive force on a level comparable to Prime James.

James also seems like the easier ego to deal with and has a better leadership approach then the very stoic Wilt.

penbeast0 wrote:Before the 70s when you needed a dominant big to compete (before the 90s, the only team to EVER win a ring without a HOF big was Golden State in 75) . . . Wilt.

I disagree. Lakers certainly could compete (I mean, they made the finals 5 times in the 60s, having West and Baylor as their leaders, before Wilt joined the team, twice losing game 7 against Boston - in '62, they lost by three points, in '66 they lost by 2...).

I think that you can always compete when you simply have elite talent, regardless of position. It was more difficult to compete without a great center in the 60s, but it was far from impossible.

Who would you take: javale mcgee or lebron james? Hmmmm, im gonna have to get back to you op.

The Dipper everyday and twice on Sundays.

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league. Look at Cousins, he's amazing but no great talent in historical terms, and he's eating the league alive.

What would the greatest physical specimen ever do? Who's guarding him? DeAndre? Perkins? Don't make me laugh.

Remember the havoc Shaq wreaked in the early 2000s? That was with easier going refs. Today, no one could touch Wilt. There would literally be no way to stop him, especially since if you swarmed him he'd be able to kick it out to the 2-3 shooters every present team has.

27-15-5 on close to 60% shooting is my prediction

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ardee wrote:The Dipper everyday and twice on Sundays.

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league. Look at Cousins, he's amazing but no great talent in historical terms, and he's eating the league alive.

What would the greatest physical specimen ever do? Who's guarding him? DeAndre? Perkins? Don't make me laugh.

Remember the havoc Shaq wreaked in the early 2000s? That was with easier going refs. Today, no one could touch Wilt. There would literally be no way to stop him, especially since if you swarmed him he'd be able to kick it out to the 2-3 shooters every present team has.

27-15-5 on close to 60% shooting is my prediction

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Well there are alot more athletic bigs in the league than Cousins who dont have even a fraction of his postgame (Dwight, Drummond, Blake). Wilt physically could outmatch guys but he was no Shaq in that regard and i havent really seen much footage to suggest than hes a better post player than Cousins who is easily the best big in terms of postgame since Shaq/Dirk/Timmy

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oemQKScZ7MQ[/youtube]

i mean the game is alot more structured now and its hard to say how Wilts skills would translate. Stan van gundy is one of the best coaches in the league and him and his training staff experimented on Drummond (who is a physical specimen himself) in the post and failed. He doesnt have the footwork, ballhandling ability or Iq of Cousins or to be able to read traps and double teams to make the right play. Im not saying Wilt is a dumb player but skillwise how are u so sure he would be able to translate all those skills? He seems like a Goat level finisher and offensive rebounder, with great passing from a big man. But his postgame is a big question mark and he wouldnt be taking those midrange/jumpers he did back then considering he was prolly very inefficient

Wilt. I'm not saying no to the best athlete ever to play in the NBA. A big who can score, defend, rebound, block, and run the floor with the speed of a guard, plus who had incredible stamina and pure strength. LOL at people questioning his post game. He's one of two people in the NBA who could play with his back to the basket the whole game and be dominant (Shaq is the other). You can build an elite defense around Wilt.

From a logistics standpoint, it's easier to find a LeBron-type player than a Wilt-type player. Skilled bigs just aren't what they used to be. A guy like Jack Simka might be the best center in the league today.

If I could have both to start a team, I'd have rings to show off to my friends. Two top-ten players in NBA history, hmm....

Dubeta wrote:Who would you take: javale mcgee or lebron james? Hmmmm, im gonna have to get back to you op.

I'm assuming everyone has you on ignore and that's why no one's addressed this ridiculous post. I should do the same.

Sure the rules have changed to favor perimeter players, but seeing how much of an impact Dwight had at his peak, and he's not even that impressive if we're going by all time great standards, it still leads me to believe this is a big man's game. Wilt is head and shoulders above Dwight in almost everything, I'm going with Wilt here, even though I'd hate to stomach his ego.

GSP wrote:Stan van gundy is one of the best coaches in the league and him and his training staff experimented on Drummond (who is a physical specimen himself) in the post and failed.

The failed Drummond experiment has more to do with the fact that he's softer than a baby's bottom. His footwork in the post is wonky, but it's made worse by the fact that he's allergic to initiating contact with his defender. If he was aggressive he'd be sooooooo much better than he is now.

ardee wrote:The Dipper everyday and twice on Sundays.

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league. Look at Cousins, he's amazing but no great talent in historical terms, and he's eating the league alive.

What would the greatest physical specimen ever do? Who's guarding him? DeAndre? Perkins? Don't make me laugh.

Remember the havoc Shaq wreaked in the early 2000s? That was with easier going refs. Today, no one could touch Wilt. There would literally be no way to stop him, especially since if you swarmed him he'd be able to kick it out to the 2-3 shooters every present team has.

27-15-5 on close to 60% shooting is my prediction

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lol, Cousins is miles ahead of Wilt in terms of footwork, post moves, around the rim touch (relative to his era, because it's much harder to get good shots/positioning in the paint nowadays than in the 60's) and I won't even mention shooting outside the paint, and is an 80% FT shooter. You're laughing at DeAndre Jordan but Wilt would literary camp (and I mean camp) in the paint against mostly weak, small, non-athletic defenders and his team would throw soft lobs (freaking lobs) in there, because no one with 7-2 can miss 2 feet from the basket defended by the Zelmo Beaty's and Len Chappell's of the World.

I like how you basically went ''Well, remember how dominant 00's Shaq was, Wilt would be unstoppable in this era'' and then go on to predict him averaging 27 ppg on 60%... Well, Shaq did 30/13 on 60% FG in his 2nd year. That was in the early 90's. So there's a discrepancy here, if Wilt would wreck faces with 27 ppg then what was Shaq doing when he averaged like 28 ppg from his rookie year all the way to 2003.

At the end of the day, Shaq was just much better than Wilt as a scorer, it's simple as that. But since Howard managed to average 23/14 a couple of years back (much like Wilt, with a pretty limited offensive game), it's not really unreasonable to phantom Wilt with 25/15 or something. 5 assists are a big stretch though. Still, it's questionable just how impactful those numbers would be in a context of a 1st option. Even though Wilt could potentially draw more attention than Howard, he's being compared offensively to a guy who pretty much single-handedly led pretty craptacular teams to a top 5 offensive output on numerous occasions.

ardee wrote:The Dipper everyday and twice on Sundays.

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league. Look at Cousins, he's amazing but no great talent in historical terms, and he's eating the league alive.

What would the greatest physical specimen ever do? Who's guarding him? DeAndre? Perkins? Don't make me laugh.

Remember the havoc Shaq wreaked in the early 2000s? That was with easier going refs. Today, no one could touch Wilt. There would literally be no way to stop him, especially since if you swarmed him he'd be able to kick it out to the 2-3 shooters every present team has.

27-15-5 on close to 60% shooting is my prediction

Sent from my GT-I9300 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Hmmm, maybe you than also remember the dive Shaq's scoring made after they changed the defense rules? Defensive schemes are suited to keep the ball out of the post as much as possible. Today's scoring big men all have a decent jump shot, because of this.

Wilt wouldn't be as effective today as he was back then. He surely would not play 44-48 minutes per game. And rebounding, he averaged 27 rebounds playing 47 minutes on a team which averaged 75 a game. Today's team average 46 at most and centers play 38 minutes at most. He would hardly crack 13 rebounds per game.

Of course, he could kick out to shooters, but that does not always give him points or assists. I think he would average 20-12-3 in today's game. He could push it to max 25-15-5 in some seasons. But I would pick LeBron over him anytime.

Mazter wrote:

ardee wrote:The Dipper everyday and twice on Sundays.

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league. Look at Cousins, he's amazing but no great talent in historical terms, and he's eating the league alive.

What would the greatest physical specimen ever do? Who's guarding him? DeAndre? Perkins? Don't make me laugh.

Remember the havoc Shaq wreaked in the early 2000s? That was with easier going refs. Today, no one could touch Wilt. There would literally be no way to stop him, especially since if you swarmed him he'd be able to kick it out to the 2-3 shooters every present team has.

27-15-5 on close to 60% shooting is my prediction

Sent from my GT-I9300 using RealGM Forums mobile app

Hmmm, maybe you than also remember the dive Shaq's scoring made after they changed the defense rules? Defensive schemes are suited to keep the ball out of the post as much as possible. Today's scoring big men all have a decent jump shot, because of this.

Wilt wouldn't be as effective today as he was back then. He surely would not play 44-48 minutes per game. And rebounding, he averaged 27 rebounds playing 47 minutes on a team which averaged 75 a game. Today's team average 46 at most and centers play 38 minutes at most. He would hardly crack 13 rebounds per game.

Of course, he could kick out to shooters, but that does not always give him points or assists. I think he would average 20-12-3 in today's game. He could push it to max 25-15-5 in some seasons. But I would pick LeBron over him anytime.

He most certainly would not average 20-12-3. That's ridiculous. His averages would be around 25-14-4-4, probably.

I'll take Wilt. I consider LeBron the better player but Wilt would be far and away the best bigman in the game right now, it'd be really hard to stop him. Get some good players around him and he'll deliver.

SkyHookFTW wrote:Wilt. I'm not saying no to the best athlete ever to play in the NBA. A big who can score, defend, rebound, block, and run the floor with the speed of a guard, plus who had incredible stamina and pure strength. LOL at people questioning his post game. He's one of two people in the NBA who could play with his back to the basket the whole game and be dominant (Shaq is the other). You can build an elite defense around Wilt.

From a logistics standpoint, it's easier to find a LeBron-type player than a Wilt-type player. Skilled bigs just aren't what they used to be.

Hmm. Really?

Start with a 6'9"+ player who can legitimately run an offense like a point guard, and then cross-reference that against players who can score on GOAT-level volume/efficiency. There's no one but LeBron on that list.

On the other hand. We have KAJ, Olajuwon, Shaquille, etc. who are at least reasonably resembling the Wilt archetype.

i still take Wilt. The center value and how he could pass and shoot FT etc .. Plus once in live time talent.

LOL at people questioning his post game. He's one of two people in the NBA who could play with his back to the basket the whole game and be dominant

Yes, just because he didn't rely on up and under fakes or stutter moves, he is thought of as incompetent. But he had very long legs and an enormous stride, which allowed him to cover a large area of ground in one single step. Despite this he still had the leverage and strength to not be muscled out of position. Players like Unseld and Reed may have kept him from bullying them in his older years, but they certainly could not push him around either. Now his monopoly of the ball and shot distribution may be a concern especially if it is a poor roster, but his passing and scoring ability cannot be questioned. He definitely looks stiffer in most of the older videos from 1968 and later, but he still had the fluidity and grace while still in his 20's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMaBWVZuAgE&t=6m28s

This is not a move you will have seen in any other available Wilt footage.

Even in his last NBA game ever, he shows a glimpse of what he was capable of in his younger years against Reed. If you gave him ground and/or went for the pump fake, he would slam it in your face. Shaq's style was more bruising, but he didn't have the stride or arm length of Wilt. Similar wingspan, but that may have more to do with his wider body frame and torso.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LC3KfhYRtG4[/youtube]


Combining this with the very high release point on his shot, there was no stopping him. Neither KAJ nor Nowitzki had a higher release point on their shots than a prime Wilt did.

Below we can see a video clip and image of Wilt shooting a basic hook shot with a very high release point (over 10 feet). It doesn't look like much until you notice where the rim is. He is almost shooting it down into the basket. In the screenshot the ball is just a split second from leaving his hand. If he was getting the ball up high enough to dunk on his hook shots, it's no wonder he had a near unblockable shot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wsEE9oivvM&t=14m38s

A big man like Wilt could literally get an entire team in foul trouble in today's league.

Even just trying to keep him off the boards would have some of these bigs in foul trouble. He would certainly lead the league in loose ball fouls drawn.

Dr Spaceman wrote:

SkyHookFTW wrote:Wilt. I'm not saying no to the best athlete ever to play in the NBA. A big who can score, defend, rebound, block, and run the floor with the speed of a guard, plus who had incredible stamina and pure strength. LOL at people questioning his post game. He's one of two people in the NBA who could play with his back to the basket the whole game and be dominant (Shaq is the other). You can build an elite defense around Wilt.

From a logistics standpoint, it's easier to find a LeBron-type player than a Wilt-type player. Skilled bigs just aren't what they used to be.

Hmm. Really?

Start with a 6'9"+ player who can legitimately run an offense like a point guard, and then cross-reference that against players who can score on GOAT-level volume/efficiency. There's no one but LeBron on that list.

On the other hand. We have KAJ, Olajuwon, Shaquille, etc. who are at least reasonably resembling the Wilt archetype.

Who's 6-9+? Not Lebron. There's Magic, Scottie, Penny, Bird, etc.

lebron 6 8