RealGM

Who would you take at their peaks?

Are we talking as a primary guy? If so, Drexler, all day, every day.

Went with Drexler. Basically a middle class man's LeBron James in a lot of ways.

Give me 92 Drexler, any day.

This poll is a blowout. It makes me wander why so many people have Pippen ahead all time if Drexler has the better peak? It's not like Pippen has better longevity, or the better 6-8 year prime for that matter. Pippen has 6 rings, which can't be glossed over, but at the same time they were all 2nd option rings and some of which he wasn't outstanding, besides Drexler ending up getting one in a similar fashion.

Clyde Drexler. Better as the man and more capable of leading a team.

Drexler's a bit overrated - Porter was nearly as good as he was.

Drexler was slightly better at scoring than Pippen, but Pippen was enough better at everything else to be the better players.

giberish wrote:Drexler's a bit overrated - Porter was nearly as good as he was.

Porter outplayed him in some playoff series, but overall, Drexler was clearly better. Look at MVP voting and All-NBA teams - Drexler got all the credit for their success. Similar to Malone/Stockton, where Malone/Drexler were clearly better, but Stockton/Porter outplayed them in some playoff series, so people were starting to think - "well, maybe Stockton/Porter are better?"...

giberish wrote:Drexler was slightly better at scoring than Pippen,

"Slightly" is an understatement. Pippen never came close to 27 ppg on 55-56% TS, like Drexler did in '88 and '89, or even 25 ppg on 56% TS like Clyde did in '92, or 26.3 ppg on 55.3% TS for a full playoff run, like Drexler did in '92.

Sure, Pippen was the second option after Jordan, so his role was a little different, but when he was "the man" in '94, after Jordan retired, Pippen still didn't come close to peak Drexler as a scorer.

giberish wrote:but Pippen was enough better at everything else to be the better players.

Pippen has a slight edge as a rebounder, but it's pretty close, especially once you adjust for position - Pippen played SF, Drexler SG, and both were elite rebounders at their positions, maybe the best in the league at their respective positions.
Drexler was a bit more effective playmaker, based on AST/TOV% ratio.

The way I see it is - Drexler was a clearly better scorer, Pippen clearly better defender (but Pippen was a good scorer and Drexler was a good defender, too), everything else is very close.

I think it's very close. Maybe it even comes down to role - Drexler is better as #1 guy - he's better offensively, and led his team to the finals twice as #1 option, Pippen is probably better as #2, because he brings better defense, and good enough offense.

mischievous wrote:This poll is a blowout. It makes me wander why so many people have Pippen ahead all time if Drexler has the better peak? It's not like Pippen has better longevity, or the better 6-8 year prime for that matter. Pippen has 6 rings, which can't be glossed over, but at the same time they were all 2nd option rings and some of which he wasn't outstanding, besides Drexler ending up getting one in a similar fashion.

Yeah, I'm surprised, too. I voted for Drexler, but I think it's very, very close. Poll sure doesn't reflect it right now. I thought it was going to be close to a tie, when I started this thread.

Honestly, I think that as a second option, '95 Drexler compares favorably to any of Pippen's championship seasons except for '91 and '92. If we narrow it down to the playoffs, where Drexler was really impressive in '95, playing next to Hakeem, I think he's about as good as Scottie ever was, in the postseason (I'd still probably take '91 and maybe also '92 playoff Pippen over '95 Drexler, but it's really close).

Quotatious wrote:

giberish wrote:Drexler was slightly better at scoring than Pippen,

"Slightly" is an understatement. Pippen never came close to 27 ppg on 55-56% TS, like Drexler did in '88 and '89, or even 25 ppg on 56% TS like Clyde did in '92, or 26.3 ppg on 55.3% TS for a full playoff run, like Drexler did in '92.

Pippen never played for a team with >100 pace either. In particular, those '88 and '89 Blazer teams you refer to played a pace that was faster than ANY team in the league during any one of Pippen's best years, and >9 faster than any of the teams Pippen played for between '92-'95. Raw numbers are going to favor Drexler to a slightly misleading degree as a result.

Clyde's best scoring season was probably '92: 33.5 pts/100 poss @ 56.03% TS (+2.90% rTS) in rs; 33.2 pts/100 poss @ 55.27% TS (+2.14% rTS) in playoffs
Pippen in '94: 30.0 pts/100 poss @ 54.43% TS (+1.65% rTS) in rs; **33.4 pts/100 poss @ 52.08% TS (-0.70% rTS) in the playoff. **fwiw, that's while facing a -1.2 rDRTG team in the first round, then a GOAT-level -8.1 rDRTG team in the second round.

So while I'd agree that "slightly" is probably an understatement, I sense (possibly mistakenly) a hidden subtext in your statements to the effect that the gap is "moderate-sized" or "quite substantial".....which I don't believe is true. While the gap as scorers may not be "slight", it probably is "small".


I consider the comparison as passer/playmakers very nearly a wash, probably a slight edge to Drexler.

But Pippen's a little better rebounder, though you might say that's just a result of size/position played. Fine, but to be fair I think you'd then have to apply the same consideration to the playmaker comparison (we sort of expect guards to be better ball-handlers/passers/perimeter decision-makers, don't we?).
If we talk in terms of positional expectation, we'd probably call rebounding a near-wash (maybe faintest of edges to Drexler), but then we'd have to give a tiny-to-small edge to Pippen as a ball-handler/passer/playmaker.

And finally, the largest gap between these two players (by far, imo) is defensively, and it's in Pippen's favor.


So "who would I take"? Well, as is often the case it somewhat depends on what I have in place around him. If I need a wing on a team that desperately lacks firepower or offensive direction.....in that instance I probably go with Drexler. But in a vacuum, I go with Pippen by a very small margin (that is: I think he was marginally better overall at his peak).

mischievous wrote:This poll is a blowout. It makes me wander why so many people have Pippen ahead all time if Drexler has the better peak? It's not like Pippen has better longevity, or the better 6-8 year prime for that matter. Pippen has 6 rings, which can't be glossed over, but at the same time they were all 2nd option rings and some of which he wasn't outstanding, besides Drexler ending up getting one in a similar fashion.

It may not be the same group of people voting.
Pippen is certainly higher profile due to being in the finals all those years.
I noticed that Clyde's offense was fairly erratic. He has some bad games.

I think Clyde's individual peak is in 1987-1988 but it is on a team that hasn't figured out how to grind out victories.
I might be giving Clyde too much credit for his often spectacular athletic offensive plays. Rippen is the better defender but I think if you replace Pippen with young versions of Clyde you get an even better Bulls team.

Quotatious wrote:Honestly, I think that as a second option, '95 Drexler compares favorably to any of Pippen's championship seasons except for '91 and '92. If we narrow it down to the playoffs, where Drexler was really impressive in '95, playing next to Hakeem, I think he's about as good as Scottie ever was, in the postseason (I'd still probably take '91 and maybe also '92 playoff Pippen over '95 Drexler, but it's really close).

So true, and I think it's another factor favoring Drexler.
And I say this, because '95 Drexler was clearly a post-prime version of him (the difference can be arguable, but there is no question in my mind that '92 Drexler was a significantly better player). So if '95 Drexler - as in the secondary role to Hakeem, somewhat similar to the Jordan-Pippen relation) - compares favorably to most of Pippen's championship seasons, the pendulum would swing in Drexler's favor if it were his very best, peak version.
On the other hand, '94 Pippen - the only prime season of Pippen when he was the "alpha" - doesn't quite reach Drexler's level as a first option.

Amid all this refering to abilities as a #1 offensive option, I think the defensive side of the ball is being conveniently ignored by many itt.

trex_8063 wrote:Amid all this refering to abilities as a #1 offensive option, I think the defensive side of the ball is being conveniently ignored by many itt.

Pippen was certainly better on D, but Drexler was a good defender, too. Besides, honestly I'm always looking for offense from a wing, and his ability to be a really good #1 option on offense, first and foremost. Defense is a secondary concern. Pippen is arguably the best perimeter defender of all-time, but I still don't have him in my top 15 (maybe not even top 20) overall defenders, because all of my top 15 (or even top 20) defenders are bigmen.

Also, it's really hard to decide how the gap on defense in Pippen's favor compares to the gap on offense in Drexler's favor. Or, how big that gap on defense really is, in the first place. The offensive gap is easier to measure, because we can capture it by boxscore fairly well, can't say the same about defense. I do think that the offensive gap in Drexler's favor and defensive gap in Pippen's favor are both pretty substantial, though.

Most likely, evaluating defense is always going to be more subjective than evaluating offense, because so much of defense is inherently intangible. So, I think it really comes down to your personal opinion, about how much defense vs offense really matters.