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SideshowBob wrote:I'm a bit tipsy so my counting could be off here, but Cleveland scored 99 points on ~61.5 possessions with Lebron on the floor tonight which is a 160.0 ORTG. Which means though 7 games Cleveland's ORTG w/Lebron on the floor is 130.0.

My math is off. It's 74.9 possessions, so 128.7 ORG w/Lebron on the floor tonight and 126.0 ORTG for the 7 games w/Lebron on the floor. Still mind-boggling.

Anyone sick of the way that LeBron gets his opponents under-credited whenever he beats them.

For instance the 2012 celtics were too old despite them playing way above theo record in 2010 and were dismissed as has beens . The 2012 OKC team is just a bunch of kids who were happy to be there, the 2013 pacers shouldnt have pushed the heat to 7 games. The 2015 hawks who won 60+ games ( albeit they were on the Lower end but they were still a tough ECF team ) were dismissed like they were the hawks who barely made the playoffs last year. Now Cleveland has faced a few strong defense including a -5.0+ DRTG Atlanta and killed it and now these teams identities are being rewritten. Even if they beat GSW or SAS in the finals im sure they'll be talk of how the warriors the past two years were a fluke or the spurs aren't as good as prime Duncan teams and benefited from curry's injury and LeBron missed the clearly better team.

Anyone else notice this, even from people who don't hate on LeBron directly. If he wins, it's not cause of him being tough but the opponent being weak. It's almost comic book levels, where a villain sees all his henchman defeated even his #2 and blames them all for being too weak instead of acknowledging the hero

Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

Lebron 3-Man Lineups in the playoffs

2-Man

James + Love putting up 128 ORTG

In the playoffs Cleveland is shooting 46.6% from three, and 46.4% from two.

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

By far. The basket played by the heat and the raptors doesn't look that good. I don't know it's because of the D, but it's scary they can't have more than 14 assist in 52 minutes of a nba game.

The 3 biggest 2nd round blowouts ever are:

Orlando vs. Atlanta 2010
Cleveland vs. Atlanta 2009
Cleveland vs. Atlanta 2016 (soon-to-be)

Massamba wrote:

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

By far. The basket played by the heat and the raptors doesn't look that good. I don't know it's because of the D, but it's scary they can't have more than 14 assist in 52 minutes of a nba game.

It really isn't just because of the D in that series, no. It's a lot of sloppy, low-IQ basketball as well, particularly from Toronto.

I missed the game discussion.

But pretty much the meta thinking unstoppability of the Love, Frye w/ Lebron on lineup came to fruition in that 4th quarter.

Lebron + small pick and roll with a 42% corner shooter and a 40% corner shooter in the other means it's a Lebron + small pick and roll with 0 rim protection. There's no defense for that at all. No team ever can stop that.

Besides GS's death lineup of Curry-Klay-Iggy-Barnes-Green, is there a clearly more potent 3-point shooting lineup than Kyrie-JR-LeBron-Love-Frye in NBA history? Maybe I'm overreacting to the small sample size, but it looked unstoppable at times on the offensive end.

Man, when you compare it position-by-position, Golden State nearly has a better shooter at every spot. Curry is leagues ahead of Kyrie. Klay is better than JR. I'd say Iggy is a little better than LeBron. Barnes probably edges out Love (despite shooting terribly from beyond the arc in the playoffs thus far). And Frye is probably better than Green, but I don't think the gap is that large. The real difference is Curry vs. Kyrie though.

Add in that death lineup's defense, which blows Cleveland's out of the water, and it's beyond scary. As good as this team has played, it still has a long, long way to go if it wants to reach Golden State's level.

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

I mean, heading into the playoffs I didn't think there was much of a difference in quality between ATL & TOR. Lowry's woes completely lowers T.Dots ceiling. I also considered MIA to be near their level also.

So basically, CLE ----> TOR/ATL --> MIA ->BOS/CHA -->IND/DET.

Maybe I put too much trust into ATL's defense since being a horrendous rebounding team undermines them against CLE. Add in their lack of rim protectors and this is just a horrible match-up. The next round will be noticeably different. MIA/TOR have better wings and Whiteside/Jonas in the paint. At the very least the rebounding should even out.

Unless the Blazers make the Finals, they're not running into another squad whose both overwhelmed on the wings & boards with little to no rim protection

yoyoboy wrote:Besides GS's death lineup of Curry-Klay-Iggy-Barnes-Green, is there a clearly more potent 3-point shooting lineup than Kyrie-JR-LeBron-Love-Frye in NBA history? Maybe I'm overreacting to the small sample size, but it looked unstoppable at times on the offensive end.

Career high 3 pointers made

JR Smith- 11
Kyrie Irving- 11
Channing Frye- 9
Kevin Love- 8
Lebron James- 8

No there isn't.

tone wone wrote:

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

I mean, heading into the playoffs I didn't think there was much of a difference in quality between ATL & TOR. Lowry's woes completely lowers T.Dots ceiling. I also considered MIA to be near their level also.

So basically, CLE ----> TOR/ATL --> MIA ->BOS/CHA -->IND/DET.

Maybe I put too much trust into ATL's defense since being a horrendous rebounding team undermines them against CLE. Add in their lack of rim protectors and this is just a horrible match-up. The next round will be noticeably different. MIA/TOR have better wings and Whiteside/Jonas in the paint. At the very least the rebounding should even out.

Yeah, the rebounding is clearly a weakness for this Hawks team, especially contrasted against Cleveland who has dominant rebounders at each position in the frontcourt.

That's obviously not their only flaw, but overall, I've liked their play considerably more than what I've seen from both the Heat and the Raps. Atlanta actually tries to play in unison, Horford and Millsap are one of the most versatile pairs in the league and they both stretch the floor, their have Korver doing some off-ball action (which, admittedly, for some reason, hasn't been as successful this season as it was last year, Teague and Schroeder are respectable, both in their ability to shoot and drive, Thabo and Bazemore are useful 3 and D guys.

When I've watched Toronto, all I saw was DeRozan going 1 on 1 and taking terrible shots which he was also missing on top of that. Lowry actually shrunk from a great player to DeRozan 2.0, so there's basically two DeRozan's now on the Raptors trying to shoot their team to victory, and one DeRozan is ugly enough. Valanciunas and Carroll have massively carried this team so far, and that's not a good sign.

Miami's backcourt is playing better but still have had shooting struggles, Wade's not really much of a outside shooter and Dragic is hit or miss, definitely not very reliable, that can be problem. They also have no depth, Winslow and Josh Richardson are basically their whole bench, lmao. And hopefully they don't think they can rely on Deng's outlier scorching shooting performances to supply them with points.

JLei wrote:I missed the game discussion.

But pretty much the meta thinking unstoppability of the Love, Frye w/ Lebron on lineup came to fruition in that 4th quarter.

Lebron + small pick and roll with a 42% corner shooter and a 40% corner shooter in the other means it's a Lebron + small pick and roll with 0 rim protection. There's no defense for that at all. No team ever can stop that.

How are you grading Lebron on offense for this season right now?

If he's this willing to be featured off the ball (50% assisted) and as the primary on-ball screener + serviceable 3P shooting (especially catch & shoot/spot-up shooting ~39%) he's gotta be pretty darn high right? At least higher than last year. Both those things make him super portable on offense as well and the results are bearing that out with the GOAT offense by a margin and basically everyone on the entire team going off simultaneously.

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

I think Hawks win a series against any other East team we just own them.

Dupp wrote:

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

I think Hawks win a series against any other East team we just own them.

That's what I'm saying, the Hawks are playing better than the Heat/Raptors. Cleveland would own the Raptors & Heat to the same degree, possibly even more so if they keep shooting even remotely as good, and I expect them to prove that in the ECF.

yoyoboy wrote:Besides GS's death lineup of Curry-Klay-Iggy-Barnes-Green, is there a clearly more potent 3-point shooting lineup than Kyrie-JR-LeBron-Love-Frye in NBA history? Maybe I'm overreacting to the small sample size, but it looked unstoppable at times on the offensive end.

Man, when you compare it position-by-position, Golden State nearly has a better shooter at every spot. Curry is leagues ahead of Kyrie. Klay is better than JR. I'd say Iggy is a little better than LeBron. Barnes probably edges out Love (despite shooting terribly from beyond the arc in the playoffs thus far). And Frye is probably better than Green, but I don't think the gap is that large. The real difference is Curry vs. Kyrie though.

Add in that death lineup's defense, which blows Cleveland's out of the water, and it's beyond scary. As good as this team has played, it still has a long, long way to go if it wants to reach Golden State's level.

Aside from the back court, I actually believe the Cavs have much better shooters. Iggy, Barnes, and Green have good percentages, but their volume is much lower than James, Love and Frye, and historically there percentages are worse. They shoot only when they're WIIIIDE open, where as Love and Frye consistently bomb away with high volume.

Of course Curry is in his own galaxy when it comes to threes, and Thompson is the a solid distance better than anyone else on the Cavs so they more then make up the difference.

yoyoboy wrote:Besides GS's death lineup of Curry-Klay-Iggy-Barnes-Green, is there a clearly more potent 3-point shooting lineup than Kyrie-JR-LeBron-Love-Frye in NBA history? Maybe I'm overreacting to the small sample size, but it looked unstoppable at times on the offensive end.

Man, when you compare it position-by-position, Golden State nearly has a better shooter at every spot. Curry is leagues ahead of Kyrie. Klay is better than JR. I'd say Iggy is a little better than LeBron. Barnes probably edges out Love (despite shooting terribly from beyond the arc in the playoffs thus far). And Frye is probably better than Green, but I don't think the gap is that large. The real difference is Curry vs. Kyrie though.

Add in that death lineup's defense, which blows Cleveland's out of the water, and it's beyond scary. As good as this team has played, it still has a long, long way to go if it wants to reach Golden State's level.

'00 Pacers

Mark Jackson - 40%
Reggie Miller - 41%
Chris Mullin - 41% (Jalen Rose - 40%)
Sam Perkins - 41%
Dale Davis - 0%


'98 Sonics

Payton - 34%
Hawkins - 42%
Dale Ellis - 46%
Schrempf - 41%
Sam Perkins - 39%

Mutnt wrote:

tone wone wrote:

Mutnt wrote:Anyone else feels like Atlanta is the 2nd best team in the East right now, or is it just me?

I mean, heading into the playoffs I didn't think there was much of a difference in quality between ATL & TOR. Lowry's woes completely lowers T.Dots ceiling. I also considered MIA to be near their level also.

So basically, CLE ----> TOR/ATL --> MIA ->BOS/CHA -->IND/DET.

Maybe I put too much trust into ATL's defense since being a horrendous rebounding team undermines them against CLE. Add in their lack of rim protectors and this is just a horrible match-up. The next round will be noticeably different. MIA/TOR have better wings and Whiteside/Jonas in the paint. At the very least the rebounding should even out.

Yeah, the rebounding is clearly a weakness for this Hawks team, especially contrasted against Cleveland who has dominant rebounders at each position in the frontcourt.

That's obviously not their only flaw, but overall, I've liked their play considerably more than what I've seen from both the Heat and the Raps. Atlanta actually tries to play in unison, Horford and Millsap are one of the most versatile pairs in the league and they both stretch the floor, their have Korver doing some off-ball action (which, admittedly, for some reason, hasn't been as successful this season as it was last year, Teague and Schroeder are respectable, both in their ability to shoot and drive, Thabo and Bazemore are useful 3 and D guys.

When I've watched Toronto, all I saw was DeRozan going 1 on 1 and taking terrible shots which he was also missing on top of that. Lowry actually shrunk from a great player to DeRozan 2.0, so there's basically two DeRozan's now on the Raptors trying to shoot their team to victory, and one DeRozan is ugly enough. Valanciunas and Carroll have massively carried this team so far, and that's not a good sign.

Miami's backcourt is playing better but still have had shooting struggles, Wade's not really much of a outside shooter and Dragic is hit or miss, definitely not very reliable, that can be problem. They also have no depth, Winslow and Josh Richardson are basically their whole bench, lmao. And hopefully they don't think they can rely on Deng's outlier scorching shooting performances to supply them with points.

If you had to cook up a defense (personnel wise) that would have these Cavs look like GODs offensively they'd look a lot the Hawks.

Weak/undersized wings with no rim protection? That's a disaster against Lebron