RealGM

I'm just trying to collect some information here, no hidden agenda. The TT/PC boards tend to have pretty informed posters, so I'm posting this here. This isn't about his future contract, just about the general impression he has made on you as a player. Use stats or don't use stats, I don't care.

Thanks!

Looking for a lot more votes here.

He is above average because of motor and defense. His shot which has been his strength until the pros is about better selection and he already improved ball handling. He is working on that again this summer. Another aspect is coachable. All of his coaches speak highly of him including me from Greenville Middle School GA. So I say he is behind Harden, Klay, Butler, Wade, Derozan, McCullom, Beal, Oladipo. I will say this put him on Clippers, Cavaliers, Celtics, Hawks, He improves all these playoff teams.

wallsfamily wrote:He is above average because of motor and defense. His shot which has been his strength until the pros is about better selection and he already improved ball handling. He is working on that again this summer. Another aspect is coachable. All of his coaches speak highly of him including me from Greenville Middle School GA. So I say he is behind Harden, Klay, Butler, Wade, Derozan, McCullom, Beal, Oladipo. I will say this put him on Clippers, Cavaliers, Celtics, Hawks, He improves all these playoff teams.

No chance he's better than Redick or Bradley. I don't think he's better than Korver or JR either.

Only eight votes so far. Please vote!

Sorry to bump, just trying to keep this on the front page to get votes. Up to twelve now, looking for at least twenty.

I believe he is somewhere in the range of 12-15, likely closer to 15. The thing that I like about him is he can have an impact on the game without having ball.
To the poster who thinks he is the 9th best SG in the league, I disagree. He is behind Harden, Butler, Thompson, Wade, Ginobili, Middleton, McCollum, Oladipo, Hood, Smith, Batum, and Redick. He is probably in the mix with Matthews, Korver, Allen, and Green.
The thing is, there isn't a lot of seperation between him and becoming a top 10 SG, so I think this year he could very easily become a top 10 SG in this league.
Fun player and a player that would be a good asset to any team.

edit: I probably should have voted above average, but he is an average to above average starter.

I voted him as above average.

Guys I had above him last season: Harden, Butler, Middleton, Danny G, Thompson, Oladipo, McCollum, Korver

Edit: And Manu is better when he can play, but he can't play much any more

eminence wrote:I voted him as above average.

Guys I had above him last season: Harden, Butler, Middleton, Danny G, Thompson, Oladipo, McCollum, Korver

Edit: And Manu is better when he can play, but he can't play much any more

You had him better than Wade, Hood, and Redick?

Colbinii wrote:

eminence wrote:I voted him as above average.

Guys I had above him last season: Harden, Butler, Middleton, Danny G, Thompson, Oladipo, McCollum, Korver

Edit: And Manu is better when he can play, but he can't play much any more

You had him better than Wade, Hood, and Redick?

Yep. I didn't watch a ton of Detroit, so maybe I'm off, but that's where I'm at.

Wade picked it up in the playoffs, but he was butt all regular season long. A 31.6 usg% with what he was capable of producing (19 ppg @ 51.7 TS%) is active detriment to the team level bad (and he certainly wasn't playing good D to make up for it). Impact stats back it up pretty clearly too, the Heat were better without Wade.

Redick was at a similar level to KCP, but played 8 fewer mpg. It adds up quick, 2789 total minutes vs 2097.

Hood was solid. Better offensively, worse defensively. Got overrated offensively as the season went on though due to being a very effective isolation player (which catches the eye first), he had problems throughout with meshing with the team offensively and being effective off-ball or distributing to others when he did have the ball.

eminence wrote:Wade picked it up in the playoffs, but he was butt all regular season long. A 31.6 usg% with what he was capable of producing (19 ppg @ 51.7 TS%) is active detriment to the team level bad (and he certainly wasn't playing good D to make up for it). Impact stats back it up pretty clearly too, the Heat were better without Wade.

How do you view the Curry vs LeBron debate? I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison, but to me it is very similar with KCP/Wade. Wade, to me, proved that in the playoffs he was a superior player to KCP.

Colbinii wrote:

eminence wrote:Wade picked it up in the playoffs, but he was butt all regular season long. A 31.6 usg% with what he was capable of producing (19 ppg @ 51.7 TS%) is active detriment to the team level bad (and he certainly wasn't playing good D to make up for it). Impact stats back it up pretty clearly too, the Heat were better without Wade.

How do you view the Curry vs LeBron debate? I know it isn't an apples to apples comparison, but to me it is very similar with KCP/Wade. Wade, to me, proved that in the playoffs he was a superior player to KCP.

Lebron for last season to me. I don't see it as a very strong parallel (Curry clearly fell off in the playoffs- though I personally believe it was mostly due to injury, he still fell off). KCP meanwhile at least maintained and maybe even slightly improved his play in the playoffs. Wade improved his play by a larger margin, but still only wound up a little better than KCP in my opinion, not enough to make up the gap.

Appreciate the comments as well as the votes. Up to 15 now.

Surprised to see people quite high on Korver still, he regressed a ton last season. He was actually a net negative on offense last season, which is insane when you consider his playing style. Went from %49 from downtown to %39 from downtown despite shooting on less volume.

As for KCP, I have him in the Top 15. Average-to-above average SG. Voted for above average.

Voted average but agree he's in the "average to above average" range. Great defensively for a SG, doesn't totally kill your offense and if he gets a consistent shot he's well above average I'd say.

Thanks, everyone. Feel free to vote if you haven't already, but nineteen votes now is a decent sample size.

I'll add the context at this point -- there's a vocal minority on the Pistons board that thinks KCP needs to be traded. He's about to play the last year of his rookie deal, and, given the market, he's about to get paid, I'd guess 20 million a year at a minimum. It's fair to say that his offense has been inconsistent, and giving out that kind of money to a guy that can shoot you out of a game is a bit scary.

I hope the Pistons wait and see how he performs this year on a team that wants to do more than make the playoffs -- they want to win at least a series. There's risk, of course, because if KCP shoots 36% from three this year, he'll likely get a max contract offer from someone. The Pistons can afford to pay that contract, but there's also the option to move him along, go with the cheaper Bullock (or someone else in FA), and use the money elsewhere.

I had the feeling KCP was regarded as at least an average starting SG, and while the opinions of RealGM posters aren't the opinions of NBA GM's, it's something.

SG is a weak position and money is flying everywhere. It's a good time to be Kentavious Caldwell-Pope.

tmorgan I dont agree about trading. I have wanted them to because I want him to play with Lebron both mine and his favorite player. But the issue is value. I think he series against Cleveland showed you what he could do for 3 games he was the highest and most consistent scorer. He defended Kyrie pretty good and his dunk on his idol was awesome. It reminded me of another underrated shooting guard who dunked on Lebron and has moved from team to team. Courtney Lee. coachable guys who work and play well with hustle and talent. Yes pay them. Plus he leads the team in minutes.

As it stands right now, he's a very flawed player on both ends, yeah defense too. He projects to be a very good to elite defender, but so far he's not there, he can D up any man on a man to man match up but makes mistakes and loses focus too many times to call him a great defender already.

The thing is, it's not too important where he ranks right now, his flaws are the kind of flaws that young players tend to fix with playing time and experience, and as soon as he improves his shot selection, his resolve and focus on both ends, and adds a little bit more playmaking, he'll surely be one of the best role players in this league.

And the thing is, pretty much every team no matter how it's built, can use a guy with his skillset. So if I'm the Pistons, I don't let go of him even if I have to max him out.

Im Your Father wrote:

wallsfamily wrote:He is above average because of motor and defense. His shot which has been his strength until the pros is about better selection and he already improved ball handling. He is working on that again this summer. Another aspect is coachable. All of his coaches speak highly of him including me from Greenville Middle School GA. So I say he is behind Harden, Klay, Butler, Wade, Derozan, McCullom, Beal, Oladipo. I will say this put him on Clippers, Cavaliers, Celtics, Hawks, He improves all these playoff teams.

No chance he's better than Redick or Bradley. I don't think he's better than Korver or JR either.

KCP would fit better for Clippers because he is not a liability on defense and Chris Paul makes guards shoot where he wants them to not whenever he wants. Shooting automatically better. As far as Bradley I take the guy who is durable over the other any day of the week. Plus the obvious size advantage. Korver is 35 years old in a system made for him and still gets pulled out because of defensive matchups. And I love JR but a younger version without the baggage is not contest.

tmorgan wrote:Thanks, everyone. Feel free to vote if you haven't already, but nineteen votes now is a decent sample size.

I'll add the context at this point -- there's a vocal minority on the Pistons board that thinks KCP needs to be traded. He's about to play the last year of his rookie deal, and, given the market, he's about to get paid, I'd guess 20 million a year at a minimum. It's fair to say that his offense has been inconsistent, and giving out that kind of money to a guy that can shoot you out of a game is a bit scary.

I hope the Pistons wait and see how he performs this year on a team that wants to do more than make the playoffs -- they want to win at least a series. There's risk, of course, because if KCP shoots 36% from three this year, he'll likely get a max contract offer from someone. The Pistons can afford to pay that contract, but there's also the option to move him along, go with the cheaper Bullock (or someone else in FA), and use the money elsewhere.

I had the feeling KCP was regarded as at least an average starting SG, and while the opinions of RealGM posters aren't the opinions of NBA GM's, it's something.

SG is a weak position and money is flying everywhere. It's a good time to be Kentavious Caldwell-Pope.

It's too early to say trade him. He has some flaws in his game, but he's only 23yo going into his 4th season. You definitely let him play the season out and see how he performs. If his inconsistency remains or he doesn't improve his 3pt shooting, passing, or rebounding then the DET front office has to start considering replacement options at a cheaper price tag.

Washington is in a similar position with Otto Porter. If he plays well this year, say ~15ppg and shoots 40% from three, he's going to get a massive offer in the $20-22M+ range and that would give me pause.


In fact I'd be willing to bet the Brooklyn Nets give a max offer sheet to either Pope or Porter. It's definitely a good time to be a young NBA wing player.

Illmatic12 wrote:

tmorgan wrote:Thanks, everyone. Feel free to vote if you haven't already, but nineteen votes now is a decent sample size.

I'll add the context at this point -- there's a vocal minority on the Pistons board that thinks KCP needs to be traded. He's about to play the last year of his rookie deal, and, given the market, he's about to get paid, I'd guess 20 million a year at a minimum. It's fair to say that his offense has been inconsistent, and giving out that kind of money to a guy that can shoot you out of a game is a bit scary.

I hope the Pistons wait and see how he performs this year on a team that wants to do more than make the playoffs -- they want to win at least a series. There's risk, of course, because if KCP shoots 36% from three this year, he'll likely get a max contract offer from someone. The Pistons can afford to pay that contract, but there's also the option to move him along, go with the cheaper Bullock (or someone else in FA), and use the money elsewhere.

I had the feeling KCP was regarded as at least an average starting SG, and while the opinions of RealGM posters aren't the opinions of NBA GM's, it's something.

SG is a weak position and money is flying everywhere. It's a good time to be Kentavious Caldwell-Pope.

It's too early to say trade him. He has some flaws in his game, but he's only 23yo going into his 4th season. You definitely let him play the season out and see how he performs. If his inconsistency remains or he doesn't improve his 3pt shooting, passing, or rebounding then the DET front office has to start considering replacement options at a cheaper price tag.

Washington is in a similar position with Otto Porter. If he plays well this year, say ~15ppg and shoots 40% from three, he's going to get a massive offer in the $20-22M+ range and that would give me pause.


In fact I'd be willing to bet the Brooklyn Nets give a max offer sheet to either Pope or Porter. It's definitely a good time to be a young NBA wing player.

Yeah, there are a number of players in this situation. KCP's rebounding isn't really a concern -- Dre gobbles up most of the boards, and KCP's job is to get out in transition if possible. He's unbelievably fast.

Passing, though, you'd like to see some improvement. He has progressed a little in this area, but not much. He's definitely a shoot first kind of guy with irrational confidence. He has games in which he's an offensive force, because he gets good height on his jumper and can basically get his shot off whenever he wants. The games it's not going in, though -- yikes. He still fires away whenever he gets a chance.

He has improved his handle, however. He will attack hard closeouts now, and his free throw rate is starting to rise as a result. He's also fearless in traffic, and although he's fairly slight, he'll take it hard to the rim if you give him a lane.

I like him. I'm not part of the "trade him" minority. It's time to step up, though. The good defense is nice, but the Pistons do need better perimeter shooters to play the offense they want to play.