RealGM

The modern center is a midget

Wait, what is this thread for? Does is tell us something we didn't already know?

Quotatious wrote:Wait, what is this thread for? Does is tell us something we didn't already know?

Compares player size.

I think it is interesting for many to see the comparisons of players from different eras side by side. It's difficult to appreciate just how tall Kareem was until you see him dwarf Dwight. Mutombo also seems really tall, taller than his listed 7-1. NBA height are bs everyone knows that, so it is interesting to figure out the true heights,

90sgoat wrote:Compares player size.

I think it is interesting for many to see the comparisons of players from different eras side by side. It's difficult to appreciate just how tall Kareem was until you see him dwarf Dwight. Mutombo also seems really tall, taller than his listed 7-1. NBA height are bs everyone knows that, so it is interesting to figure out the true heights,

Yeah, I get it, but everyone also knows that Dwight is not a 7-footer, he's more like 6'10'' 1/2. Kareem is somewhere between 7'2'' and 7'3'', and it would seem to be correct looking at that photo.

Most interesting thing to me is how tall Walton looks, maybe even slightly taller than Shaq (yet he always says he's not even 7-feet, he's 6'11''...sure).



Ben's afro ends at the same level as the top of Russell's head...Meaning Ben without the afro is probably just 6'7'', not the 6'9'' he's listed as. Russell, meanwhile, is somewhere between 6'10'' and 6'11'', about the same as Dwight. I mean, look at that:



Old people tend to shrink a bit, and Russell was about 75 in that photo, but still looks just half an inch shorter than Howard to me. I could easily buy Russell as 6'11'' in shoes in his prime.

When was Kareem at his physical peak? Right when he entered the league and was averaging 34/16 or the early Laker years where his stats were slightly less but most considered him the best player by far?

DirtyDez wrote:When was Kareem at his physical peak? Right when he entered the league and was averaging 34/16 or the early Laker years where his stats were slightly less but most considered him the best player by far?

I would say probably 1975-76 was his best season, athletically. That was his first season with the Lakers. He was 28/29 years old at that time, and I think the added muscle/strength more than makes up for any loss of speed or quickness, compared to 1971 or 1972. Well, at least for a center, strength is certainly more important than speed. He was probably around 240 lbs at that time, compared to just about 230 in Milwaukee (his heaviest was 267 lbs in mid 80s).

Just so I’m clear on this…..

You've taken two or three of the taller centers of some past eras (Kareem---7'2", Wilt---7'1" (and huge), Walton---well documented to be >7ft [as your photos confirm], but wished to be listed 6'11" for reasons of psychology, Shaq---7'1" (and huge), Mutombo---7'2"), and then made the comparison to one of the shortest centers of the current era (Howard---listed 6'11", but fairly well-documented that he's actually significantly shorter: his official draft combine measurements were 6'9" without shoes, 6'10.25" in shoes; possibly the single shortest starting center in today's league???)......and this is the irrefutable proof that centers are shorter now? Rock solid!

So it wouldn’t help your position at all to mention any of the starting centers today listed at 7'0" (Valanciunas, Whiteside, B.Lopez, R.Lopez, Adams, Bogut off the top of my head), or the occasional >7fter (Gobert---7'1", Chandler---7'1", or Boban Marjanovic---7'3": future starter, imo). Or at the very least sample a center who's a more legitimate 6'11" (like DeAndre Jordan, Cousins, or Drummond, who are all 265+ lbs, too).

Also wouldn't want to make mention of some of the smaller centers (all at least part-time starters or consistent role players, if not stars) from those eras.....
Kareem and/or Walton's era
Moses Malone (6'10")
Dan Issel (6’9”)

Transition from Kareem/Walton’s era to Shaq/Deke’s era
LaSalle Thompson (6'10")
Mike Brown (6'9")
Michael Cage (6'9")
Oliver Miller (listed 6'9"; DraftExpress lists his height w/out shoes as 6'7.5")

Wilt’s era
Wayne Embry (6'8"---probably be listed 6'9" today)
Zelmo Beaty (6'9"---perhaps listed 6'10" today)
Clyde Lovellete (6’9”---perhaps listed 6’10” today)

Looking at only the top 10 centers of all time, how would you guess they would stack up in stocking feet?

I have them as (in alphabetical order and counting Duncan as a C for this survey):

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
George Mikan
Hakeem Olujawon
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Bill Russell

penbeast0 wrote:Looking at only the top 10 centers of all time, how would you guess they would stack up in stocking feet?

I have them as (in alphabetical order and counting Duncan as a C for this survey):

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
George Mikan
Hakeem Olujawon
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Bill Russell

Is this a descending order of heights? Because some of these seem way off based on footage and pictures and live meetings and such.

penbeast0 wrote:Looking at only the top 10 centers of all time, how would you guess they would stack up in stocking feet?

I have them as (in alphabetical order and counting Duncan as a C for this survey):

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
George Mikan
Hakeem Olujawon
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Bill Russell

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal/David Robinson
Patrick Ewing/Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Bill Russell/Moses Malone

I don't know about Mikan.

I think Hakeem, Bill and Moses are really close.

I will say I saw Russell and Hakeem together once and thought Russell was taller. Moses was more strong than tall, I would guess that if his height isn't the least, his standing reach would be.

penbeast0 wrote:I will say I saw Russell and Hakeem together once and thought Russell was taller. Moses was more strong than tall, I would guess that if his height isn't the least, his standing reach would be.

I would expect Russell to be taller than hakeem, yes. Moses and Hakeem were a similar height. Olajuwon was initially LISTED at seven feet, much like Duncan, but that changed over time as people began to acknowledge that he was obviously shorter than Robinson and Shaq, for example, or that Duncan was shorter than Shaq and Garnett and Robinson and what have you (and by more than a single inch).

Dr Olajuwon wrote:

penbeast0 wrote:Looking at only the top 10 centers of all time, how would you guess they would stack up in stocking feet?

I have them as (in alphabetical order and counting Duncan as a C for this survey):

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Patrick Ewing
Moses Malone
George Mikan
Hakeem Olujawon
Shaquille O'Neal
David Robinson
Bill Russell

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Wilt Chamberlain
Shaquille O'Neal/David Robinson
Patrick Ewing/Tim Duncan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Bill Russell/Moses Malone

I don't know about Mikan.

I think Hakeem, Bill and Moses are really close.

I think this is close to right.

Robinson is a legit 7 footer, so is Ewing and Shaq, even if Shaq was listed as 7-1.

Hakeem was NOT 7 foot that is for sure.





Slightly taller than Dwight, I am guessing 6'10.5''

Not sure about Russell. In this pic he is clearly smaller than KG:



Here he is a bit smaller than TD:



Really similar (none of them are standing straight):



Here he seems Frodo next to Mutombo:



Here he doesn't seem that small:



So we can come to the conclusion the NBA is entertaining even in guessing the players' heights.

I always thought of Duncan as 6-11.

90sgoat wrote:
I think this is close to right.

Robinson is a legit 7 footer, so is Ewing and Shaq, even if Shaq was listed as 7-1.

Hakeem was NOT 7 foot that is for sure.





Slightly taller than Dwight, I am guessing 6'10.5''

His pre-draft height (on DraftExpress) is listed as 6'10". I seem to recall reading elsewhere he was ~6'10" barefoot.

And based off that last photo I would say the 7'4" listed height for Ralph Sampson is a gross exaggeration.

Dr Olajuwon wrote:Not sure about Russell. In this pic he is clearly smaller than KG:

DraftExpress listed Garnett's height without shoes in 1995 (age 19) as 6'11". I think he's a legit 7-footer with shoes, but similar Walton wished to have his height listed as <7 foot for whatever reason.

EDIT: There was a SI issue some time ago that sited Russell's height in socks as 6' 9.625". iirc, this is consistent with a statement in the book The Rivalry by John Taylor, where I recall it being stated that he was just a shade over 6' 9.5" barefoot.

Garnett came into the league as a soft lanky SF who didn't want to play the post, which is why he lied about his height.

trex_8063 wrote:Just so I’m clear on this…..

You've taken two or three of the taller centers of some past eras (Kareem---7'2", Wilt---7'1" (and huge), Walton---well documented to be >7ft [as your photos confirm], but wished to be listed 6'11" for reasons of psychology, Shaq---7'1" (and huge), Mutombo---7'2"), and then made the comparison to one of the shortest centers of the current era (Howard---listed 6'11", but fairly well-documented that he's actually significantly shorter: his official draft combine measurements were 6'9" without shoes, 6'10.25" in shoes; possibly the single shortest starting center in today's league???)......and this is the irrefutable proof that centers are shorter now? Rock solid!

So it wouldn’t help your position at all to mention any of the starting centers today listed at 7'0" (Valanciunas, Whiteside, B.Lopez, R.Lopez, Adams, Bogut off the top of my head), or the occasional >7fter (Gobert---7'1", Chandler---7'1", or Boban Marjanovic---7'3": future starter, imo). Or at the very least sample a center who's a more legitimate 6'11" (like DeAndre Jordan, Cousins, or Drummond, who are all 265+ lbs, too).

Also wouldn't want to make mention of some of the smaller centers (all at least part-time starters or consistent role players, if not stars) from those eras.....
Kareem and/or Walton's era
Moses Malone (6'10")
Dan Issel (6’9”)

Transition from Kareem/Walton’s era to Shaq/Deke’s era
LaSalle Thompson (6'10")
Mike Brown (6'9")
Michael Cage (6'9")
Oliver Miller (listed 6'9"; DraftExpress lists his height w/out shoes as 6'7.5")

Wilt’s era
Wayne Embry (6'8"---probably be listed 6'9" today)
Zelmo Beaty (6'9"---perhaps listed 6'10" today)
Clyde Lovellete (6’9”---perhaps listed 6’10” today)

Just off the top of my head, Tristan and Horford are definitely two starting centers shorter than D12.

yoyoboy wrote:Just off the top of my head, Tristan and Horford are definitely two starting centers shorter than D12.

I thought of Tristan Thompson after making that post. Though he's largely been a PF in his career; got moved into a traditional starting center type role just late last season (even last season his play-by-play has him as PF 77% of the time).

Wasn't aware Horford was that small; he is indeed listed as 0.25" shorter than Howard on DE.

Is this the real difference in height between KG and KAT?