Texas Chuck wrote:andrewww wrote:Even a lot of the mods are not immune to this disease. If I go on rambling out a list of names and the substance of their posts (its fine to have a preference but at least present objective facts rather than myths that fit their POV) I'll probably get banned lol.
I always wonder why when Mods are not acting in Mod capacity, why certain users want to single them out. Or why you think the PC board Mods are in the habit of banning posters who disagree with them. You should really familiarize yourself with the Mods of this forum who allow all kinds of open discussion and disagreements from countless posters who disagree with their particular opinion.
No if you were going to get banned, it would be for a post calling out other regular posters and accusing them of bias or anti-Kobe agenda. But I imagine they will even let that go, because they are familiar with your Kobe-centric approach. And they respect your right to take it. I'd say you owe them an apology for slandering them without cause or at least clarify which Mods you were speaking of.
Now I don't know that you were speaking of the Mods of this board, or just Mods in general. I know I have taken a different position than you in this thread and even directly responded to at least one of your posts. I don't have the authority to take Mod action against you, nor do I abuse my Mod powers against posters I disagree with. So feel free to address me by name. Feel free to disagree with the substance of my posts--I mean that's the purpose of the forum. I'm even willing to acknowledge that I do have some biases. I pride myself on making every effort to not allow that to impact my analysis, but I'm not naive enough to think I can honestly filter it all out.
I just don't know that it supports your case to attack other users, rather than making strong arguments for your case. Especially in regards to Kobe who is an all-time great player. Can't be more than 12-15 guys who I'd rate above Kobe for his career. He doesn't need to be blindly defended. His resume is excellent and speaks for himself.
Let me start by saying, its the moving goal posts and condescending posts/backhanded compliments/revisionist theories that annoy the heck out of me. More than any other player, you and I both know he (Kobe) is the most polarizing player on this forum bar none with minimal support. While I am a straight shooter and can be overly blunt sometimes (I'm a Virgo after all), I can spot what I feel are unreasonable biases a mile away. Dirk/Nash had better team situations in 2007, yet because they're on better teams it is often argued against Kobe's case of the best player because he was on a team that won in the high 40s (number of games). Duncan is argued against Kobe despite his minutes decrease and this was the year Duncan started his very slow decline.
However, the script is reversed in 2009/2010 when Kobe is on the championship team but then I hear arguments that Lebron has already surpassed him because of his monsters stats (but still cant hit a jumper or play in the post to save his life). So you're telling me its about individual play now, but in 2007 those other players get the benefit of the doubt because they're on winning teams? You see the double standard here?
Guys like Oscar/KG were great, but when you look at overall body of work its hard to rank these guys over Kobe. Did they have the greater peak? I think no but at worse its debatable. Were either of these guys perennial winners? Again no. Now I understand teams and different situations are often out of a player's control, but you can't punish someone for being in a better situation and actually taking advantage of it! Its like those saying Brady isnt the GOAT because he has the fortune of playing with Belichick. Or those who think Lemieux is the GOAT and not Gretzky because Lemieux is more talented. Results matter. I cant think of any consistent criteria that has Kobe ranked below 11 when you account for peak play and overall body of work.
For example, it is widely accepted that Kobe was the best player in the world from 2006-2008. You disagree? Thats cool. When someone has an offensive arsenal coupled with prime athleticism that he had these years, he was dropping 50 points at will in wins with Kwame Brown/Chris Mihm/Smush Parker as his core rotation players. Lamar Odom was the next best player! Anyone who watched Kobe play should have been able to see that 2006-2007 in particular was his peak but the supporting cast wasn't there, meaning Phil made it a point that he wanted Kobe to come out gunning in the RS these two years, then tone it back down against Phx in the first round (which worked almost perfectly until Tim Thomas hit that shot in game 6). The reasoning I hear often are things like "well Duncan won a ring in 2007", or that "Lebron made the Finals", or that "Nash made his guys better and not Kobe'. When Kobe wins a ring in 2009/2010, I hear arguments that Lebron's great series against Detroit was legendary and that he was already the best player in the world even though he didn't ring that year. In the 2010 Finals, there was legitimate discussion that had the Lakers lost, that Kobe would still have been given FMVP. Reading realgm, you hear more discussion that Pau Gasol should've won FMVP! The same Pau that disappeared on the road in games 4 and 5. Its the constant changing of narratives that irks me and I can tell that these posters are looking for excuses or any reason to put Kobe down.
FYI I define peak as the best version of said player if you were to plug them into the best possible team they had throughout their career, assuming all circumstances were equal.
When you have a forum that has him 23rd in peak play (the same guy that dropped 81 in a game and had numerous scoring outbursts at above average efficiency contrary to the popular and unfounded narrative that he was an AI level gunner) with 5 rings in which he was option 1 or 1a in 4/5 titles, and a number 2 in 1 on them...thats a joke. The reason why is partially because this forum thinks 2008 was his peak which it wasnt.
Then you have posters constantly creating losing polls where they know Kobe is going to lose the popular vote in a landslide. Whats the point of creating these threads when they ask for others opinion, then quickly jump in to say "no Kobe was inferior because of ____ reason". We get it you dont like the guy and will jump at every chance to talk down about his legacy.
Lebron had sub 40% FG shooting in the 2015 Finals yet is praised! Put Kobe in those shoes and regardless of what actually transpired, he would've gotten ripped for being selfish!
I'm not one of those fans who think the old school way where "Lebron cant form a superteam its not fair", or that "you have to take the final shot to be the man". Thats an old school way of thinking. Its about making the right basketball play, whether that be to pass or shoot. I have never hated on Lebron for these reasons, but for basketball reasons that I back up with facts.
I've said it before, the poster "senior" I can tell right away regardless of their position on Kobe I respect their opinion because it is objective, makes sense, and presented in a manner where I dont feel theyre moving goal posts. I'm actually learning stuff when I read their posts which are rich with substance.
