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This first video is of Jerry West shooting a shot off the catch, which is something he supposedly never did ( according to Pro Shot Shooting System, which is usually legit).



This second video is of West dribbling three consecutive times with his left hand. While he did try to avoid using his off-hand to an almost comical degree, he certainly was able to do it, if he absolutely had to.

Anyways, I thought this was thread worthy and that this could start some good discussion. It's not quite as dramatic as the title of the thread, but this probably wouldn't have gotten much attention if it'd had a more normal name.

I think he would be the perfect type of player to bring into this current NBA.

micahclay wrote:I think he would be the perfect type of player to bring into this current NBA.

He absolutely would be perfect in today's game. Especially in a system like D'antoni's.

I think this is a matter of over-generalization whenever I hear these comments like West couldn't go to his left or, even worse, West "had no left hand." I mean, photos clearly show a hand attached to the end of his left arm! It is like saying "you always say that" when the truth is more like "you frequently say that, although you may be able to cite a few occasions where you didn't say that". In West's case, he clearly preferred and was much better going to his right than his left. He had a very quick first step and he had a knack of bouncing the ball very hard on his last dribble going to his right, which added momentum and speed to his pull-up jumper. If you played him straight up, he could beat pretty much anyone going to his right. But if you overplayed him to his right, then he had a several step head start if he went left; even with a lesser skill he would take advantage of that head start and could beat you to his left. So you were left with two choices - play him straight up and watch him beat you going to his right. Overplay him and watch him beat you going to his left. Pick your poison.

West was probably less suited for playing in his own era than in today's era. Not just the lack of a 3-point line, but if you played him with a smother defense, West was more than willing to drive past you. Tougher to do in an era without today's spacing. And while he was elite at drawing fouls, he had his nose broken 9 times playing at a time when there was no such thing as "flagrant" fouls for contact to the head/face.

Few datapoints but yeah, the "never" used left or catch and shoot is obviously false and we can see he seems not only good enough but excellent at both catch and shoot and dribbling with his left. I think West is more a case of NBA at the time which was very focused on efficient play and not flash. The flashy play was in the ABA and of course you had some players doing it differently. I mean, if you look at a guy like Dennis Johnson in the 80s, you can tell he would be an excellent dribbling guard today, but back then, playing for those Celtics he looks just as white bread as the rest (except his speed).

90sgoat wrote:Few datapoints but yeah, the "never" used left or catch and shoot is obviously false and we can see he seems not only good enough but excellent at both catch and shoot and dribbling with his left.I think West is more a case of NBA at the time which was very focused on efficient play and not flash. The flashy play was in the ABA and of course you had some players doing it differently. I mean, if you look at a guy like Dennis Johnson in the 80s, you can tell he would be an excellent dribbling guard today, but back then, playing for those Celtics he looks just as white bread as the rest (except his speed).

I'd like to emphasize this point. You're somewhat correct on the second point: Players weren't looking to get on highlight reels, but players still found way to be plenty flashy (hell, I've seen plenty of it from all the Earl Monroe footage I'm going through) with their moves.

As for your second point, there was no emphasis on efficient play at all. Random players seemed to have no problem with launching contested jumpers off the dribble (the polar opposite of the methodical 90's or today's league). If you could get the shot up, then it was a good shot. It was certainly entertaining, to be honest, but it wasn't efficient.

PockyCandy wrote:

90sgoat wrote:Few datapoints but yeah, the "never" used left or catch and shoot is obviously false and we can see he seems not only good enough but excellent at both catch and shoot and dribbling with his left.I think West is more a case of NBA at the time which was very focused on efficient play and not flash. The flashy play was in the ABA and of course you had some players doing it differently. I mean, if you look at a guy like Dennis Johnson in the 80s, you can tell he would be an excellent dribbling guard today, but back then, playing for those Celtics he looks just as white bread as the rest (except his speed).

I'd like to emphasize this point. You're somewhat correct on the second point: Players weren't looking to get on highlight reels, but players still found way to be plenty flashy (hell, I've seen plenty of it from all the Earl Monroe footage I'm going through) with their moves.

As for your second point, there was no emphasis on efficient play at all. Random players seemed to have no problem with launching contested jumpers off the dribble (the polar opposite of the methodical 90's or today's league). If you could get the shot up, then it was a good shot. It was certainly entertaining, to be honest, but it wasn't efficient.

What was considered efficent back then was probably quite different.

I know for a fact that dribbling generally was frowned upon, owing to the fact the game actually didn't have dribbles from the onset. It stuck a long time with coaches. Quick mid range shots might very well be the best shot in a league with no 3 point line and no spacing. What better shot would you get? You attacked on the semi-break and hoped for a sort of open jumper. I agree there was far less thinking going on generally, but there was some merit to the semi-break jumpers.

PockyCandy wrote:

90sgoat wrote:Few datapoints but yeah, the "never" used left or catch and shoot is obviously false and we can see he seems not only good enough but excellent at both catch and shoot and dribbling with his left.I think West is more a case of NBA at the time which was very focused on efficient play and not flash. The flashy play was in the ABA and of course you had some players doing it differently. I mean, if you look at a guy like Dennis Johnson in the 80s, you can tell he would be an excellent dribbling guard today, but back then, playing for those Celtics he looks just as white bread as the rest (except his speed).

I'd like to emphasize this point. You're somewhat correct on the second point: Players weren't looking to get on highlight reels, but players still found way to be plenty flashy (hell, I've seen plenty of it from all the Earl Monroe footage I'm going through) with their moves.

As for your second point, there was no emphasis on efficient play at all. Random players seemed to have no problem with launching contested jumpers off the dribble (the polar opposite of the methodical 90's or today's league). If you could get the shot up, then it was a good shot. It was certainly entertaining, to be honest, but it wasn't efficient.

"Random players seemed to have no problem with launching contested jumpers off the dribble (the polar opposite of the methodical 90's or today's league)"


You are correct. In the sixties you still had many players taking shots which would get them benched today. The style for many teams was to come down the floor and the first player to get into shooting range, even with his man closely guarding him, would many times launch a shot.
Over the years the NBA has been dramatically affected by the addition of college coaches. I think Dick Motta with the Bulls in the sixties might have been the first coach hired from the college ranks who tried to introduced college-style tactics.
Motta was known for emphasizing defense, but he also had his teams play a more deliberate style of ball. Many coaches, even some from the college ranks like Bill Van Breda Kolff, disdained deliberate plays believing that pro players knews how to get good shots without elaborate plays.
Many pro coaches coming from the player ranks believed the "offense will take care of itself," and concentrated of rebounding and defense.
But eventually the more college coaches came into the league, the more the game slowed down as college coaches installed more plays and different tactics. By the nineties it was rare to see a real run and gun team. By that I mean no plays whatsoever. Just get the ball down the floor and shoot.
In the last few years it seems a number of teams are playing at a faster pace, and the number of shots per game is going up. It is now common to see players come down the floor and launch threes seconds after crossing midcourt. We'll see if that trend continues.

It's strange that after so many researches and with having not small colletcion of footage people still say that West couldn't dribble with his left hand.

The second one about catch and shoot is something I've never heard about. I've seen quite many examples of his catch and shoot actions, although I can agree with a statement that he shot more times off the dribble, at least from whar I've seen.

70sFan wrote:It's strange that after so many researches and with having not small colletcion of footage people still say that West couldn't dribble with his left hand.

The second one about catch and shoot is something I've never heard about. I've seen quite many examples of his catch and shoot actions, although I can agree with a statement that he shot more times off the dribble, at least from whar I've seen.

West never played much with pgs who set him up. Of course, he handled the ball a lot and became the pg in his later years. In his early years the other guard often brought the ball up the floor and passed or handed the ball to West to let him go one on one.
But I would say the great majority of his jump shots were off the dribble. At least that's what I mostly remember him as doing. It would have been interesting to see what his fg. pct would have been if he had played with a great distributor/set up pg.