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Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:33 am
by Jim Naismith
At their peak, who is better?
Draymond Green
vs.
Scottie Pippen
Vote above.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:38 am
by RCM88x
Pippen but the gap is pretty small IMO.
Who I value more depends on the players around them, though Pippen is most certainly the better #1 option.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:49 am
by 70sFan
I'd take 1994 Scotrie over any version of Green. He's not very far from Draymond defensively and I'm sure he's more capable of being the main option on offense. I also believe he's better playmaker than Green.
Both can be more impactful than the other, depends on circumstances. I don't like this statement but "in a vaccum" I'd take Pippen.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 6:52 am
by LakerLegend
Pippen by a good bit.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:08 am
by lorak
On offense they were comparable (ineffective scorers and very good playmakers), but on defense Green is significantly better, because he is as good as Scottie in covering whole floor (rotations, help D), but at the same time is elite at rim defender and Pippen wasn't. So overall it's clearly Draymond.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 9:27 am
by AdagioPace
On one hand, Draymond is the perfect complementary piece
On the other hand Pippen can take up a first option load if needed
I see it this way
As a 2nd option: Pippen
As a 3rd option: Draymond
As an "end of the line" starter with defensive duties: Draymond
As always, It depends on what you need.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:09 am
by Jiminy Glick
Pippen, not close.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:40 am
by Winsome Gerbil
Just wanted to confirm that we were all discussing the same guy. This is who we are talking about, right?
Draymond Green: 10.2pts (.418 .308 .709) .522TS% 7.9reb 7.0ast 2.0stl 1.4blk 2.4TO 16.5PER?
this stuff has got to stop.
unless of course people want to continue to claim that Draymond Green might be a Top 30 player of all time. In which case, carry on of course.
Other players Draymond Green just might not be as good as: John Stockton, Isiah Thomas, Walt Frazier, John Havlicek, Elgin Baylor, Patrick Ewing, Rick Barry, Kevin Durant, Chris Paul, Dirk Nowitzki, Jason Kidd, Gary Payton, Dwayne Wade, Clyde Drexler, and anybody else we can think of who might be Top 40 of all time.
Players Draymond Green DOES bear some resemblance to:
Andrei Kirilenko
Anthony Mason
Dennis Rodman (maybe)
Shawn Marion
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:45 am
by lorak
Winsome Gerbil wrote:this stuff has got to stop.
Why is it so difficult to so many people to admit, that some new unique player might be better than legends from the past?
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 10:46 am
by Winsome Gerbil
lorak wrote:Winsome Gerbil wrote:this stuff has got to stop.
Why is it so difficult to so many people to admit, that some new unique player might be better than legends from the past?
good lord
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:09 am
by eminence
With Lorak here. Pippen may be slightly better as the sole #1 on offense (though that'd be some crap team building - do you ask Magic to be your best defender? - hyperbole, but you get the point), but Dray is better as the #2 on down on offense. Defensively it's not particularly close, Green is just several steps up.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:35 am
by Quotatious
lorak wrote:On offense they were comparable (ineffective scorers and very good playmakers), but on defense Green is significantly better, because he is as good as Scottie in covering whole floor (rotations, help D), but at the same time is elite at rim defender and Pippen wasn't. So overall it's clearly Draymond.
To call Pippen an ineffective scorer is a huge overstatement. He had four seasons with 20+ ppg on above average efficiency.
1992: 21.0 ppg on +2.3% above league average
1994: 22.0 ppg on +1.6% above league average
1995: 21.4 ppg on +1.6% above league average
1997: 20.2 ppg on +1.8% above league average
Admittedly, he often declined in the playoffs efficiency-wise, but he also had playoff runs when he was still a pretty good scorer - 1991 and 1992, in particular. Especially '91, when he averaged 21.6 ppg on 56.4% TS (which is a clear improvement compared to his regular season that year - marginally higher efficiency and clearly higher volume, in a tougher defensive environment).
Pippen was never a world beater in terms of scoring efficiency, but he was decent enough, and generally a very good scorer (just not elite), capable of creating his own shot really well, and able to get his points in a lot of ways.
Pippen's scoring ability was EASILY better than Green's, like two tiers ahead of Draymond, especially in terms of creating his own shot on a consistent basis, Scottie was FAR better. I would love to see Draymond trying to be the leading scorer (by a large margin) of a 55-win team, as Pippen was in 1994. There's no way he would be able to do that, not even close.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:45 am
by lorak
Quotatious wrote:lorak wrote:On offense they were comparable (ineffective scorers and very good playmakers), but on defense Green is significantly better, because he is as good as Scottie in covering whole floor (rotations, help D), but at the same time is elite at rim defender and Pippen wasn't. So overall it's clearly Draymond.
To call Pippen an ineffective scorer is a huge overstatement. He had four seasons with 20+ ppg on above average efficiency.
1992: 21.0 ppg on +2.3% above league average
1994: 22.0 ppg on +1.6% above league average
1995: 21.4 ppg on +1.6% above league average
1997: 20.2 ppg on +1.8% above league average
Admittedly, he often declined in the playoffs efficiency-wise, but he also had playoff runs when he was still a pretty good scorer - 1991 and 1992, in particular. Especially '91, when he averaged 21.6 ppg on 56.4% TS (which is a clear improvement compared to his regular season that year - marginally higher efficiency and clearly higher volume, in a tougher defensive environment).
Pippen was never a world beater in terms of scoring efficiency, but he was decent enough, and generally a very good scorer (just not elite), capable of creating his own shot really well, and able to get his points in a lot of ways.
Pippen's scoring ability was EASILY better than Green's, like two tiers ahead of Draymond, especially in terms of creating his own shot on a consistent basis, Scottie was FAR better. I would love to see Draymond trying to be the leading scorer (by a large margin) of a 55-win team, as Pippen was in 1994. There's no way he would be able to do that, not even close.
Pippen's career 3P% is 30% (without seasons with shorter line) and FT% is 70%. Yes, he was better scorer than Green, but his scoring skillset wasn't that much more valuable for a team, what was usually exposed in the playoffs. Besides any advantage Pippen has in scoring is smaller than Drymond's advantage on defense.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 11:56 am
by GeneralManager
Let's see if Draymond can start putting up close to 10 assists per game, which I think could be possible.
After that we can talk about this kind of comp.
Pippen is not a Top 30 player all time, but Dray's got a loooooooong way to go to reach Top 50.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:18 pm
by Winsome Gerbil
eminence wrote:Defensively it's not particularly close, Green is just several steps up.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:23 pm
by Jim Naismith
Winsome Gerbil wrote:Just wanted to confirm that we were all discussing the same guy. This is who we are talking about, right?
Draymond Green: 10.2pts (.418 .308 .709) .522TS% 7.9reb 7.0ast 2.0stl 1.4blk 2.4TO 16.5PER?
In the 2017 playoffs, Draymond is averaging 15/9/7 with 2.0 steals and 2.6 blocks.
He also has 23.4 PER, .662 TS%, and
12.8 BPM (7th highest all-time).
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:28 pm
by Winsome Gerbil
Jim Naismith wrote:Winsome Gerbil wrote:Just wanted to confirm that we were all discussing the same guy. This is who we are talking about, right?
Draymond Green: 10.2pts (.418 .308 .709) .522TS% 7.9reb 7.0ast 2.0stl 1.4blk 2.4TO 16.5PER?
In the 2017 playoffs, Draymond is averaging 15/9/7 with 2.0 steals and 2.6 blocks.
He also has 23.4 PER, .662 TS%, and
12.8 BPM (7th highest all-time).
Yes, he's had a good
8 games running it up as a 4th option against two overwhelmed opponents.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:35 pm
by The-Power
Everybody who relies on boxscore stats to evaluate Green doesn't understand where his impact is coming from. I'm also not sure why it seems to be ridiculous to call Green an elite defender for whom comparisons with elite defensive big men of the past are not far-fetched. There is a plethora of evidence to support the notion of him being the best defender in the league over the past three years.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:39 pm
by Jim Naismith
The-Power wrote:Everybody who relies on boxscore stats to evaluate Green doesn't understand where his impact is coming from. I'm also not sure why it seems to be ridiculous to call Green an elite defender for whom comparisons with elite defensive big men of the past are not far-fetched. There is a plethora of evidence to support the notion of him being the best defender in the league over the past three years.
Don't sell some box-score stats short.
Draymond Green has 12.8 BPM in the playoffs. That's huge.
Re: Draymond Green vs. Scottie Pippen
Posted: Sat May 13, 2017 12:40 pm
by blazeyo
Green, especially in the playoffs.