The Lebron Thread (2016 - 17 Pt. 4)

THKNKG · Post #1561 » by **THKNKG** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:03 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
micahclay wrote:
PCProductions wrote:Who else thinks that DeAndre Jordan would be a killer teammate for Lebron?

Love for DAJ + Bev, and Kyrie for Bledsoe + JJ would be a big shift, but would it be a good one? That gives them a much better fit and more depth, at the expense of "star power."

NYK
Sends:
Melo
Noah
Porzingis

phx:
Sends:
Bledsoe
Jackson

Cavs:
Send:
Love
Kyrie

Clips:
Send:
DAJ
Beverly

Cleveland gets DAJ, Beverly, Melo, JJ

Clips get Porzingis, Noah, Bledsoe

Knicks get Kyrie

Suns get Love

Disclaimer: this could be way, way off, but it'd be a start. Thoughts?

So you don't like his trade but propose one whose addition is a net negative? Love for Carmelo is a terrible one for one move.

I don't dislike his trade? Not sure where you got that.

BasketballFan7 · Post #1562 » by **BasketballFan7** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:06 pm

micahclay wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
micahclay wrote:
Love for DAJ + Bev, and Kyrie for Bledsoe + JJ would be a big shift, but would it be a good one? That gives them a much better fit and more depth, at the expense of "star power."

I don't dislike his trade? Not sure where you got that.

And then you went on to propose a deal that was worse for Cleveland. Maybe I misunderstood.

BasketballFan7 · Post #1563 » by **BasketballFan7** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:08 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
micahclay wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
I don't dislike his trade? Not sure where you got that.

And then you went on to propose a deal that was worse for Cleveland. Maybe I misunderstood.

Also, the Suns get screwed. The difference between Bledsoe and Love doesn't amount to JJ. I also think the Clippers walk away with too much value (Bledsoe and Porzingis)

RCM88x · Post #1564 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 5:50 pm

BasketballFan7 wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
micahclay wrote:

And then you went on to propose a deal that was worse for Cleveland. Maybe I misunderstood.

Also, the Suns get screwed. The difference between Bledsoe and Love doesn't amount to JJ. I also think the Clippers walk away with too much value (Bledsoe and Porzingis)

Beverly also cannot be traded with another player if the team he's being traded to is over the salary cap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaqs8gzl

This basically eliminates LAC from having any discussion in this.

BasketballFan7 · Post #1565 » by **BasketballFan7** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 6:04 pm

RCM88x wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
BasketballFan7 wrote:
And then you went on to propose a deal that was worse for Cleveland. Maybe I misunderstood.

Also, the Suns get screwed. The difference between Bledsoe and Love doesn't amount to JJ. I also think the Clippers walk away with too much value (Bledsoe and Porzingis)

Beverly also cannot be traded with another player if the team he's being traded too is over the salary cap.

http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yaqs8gzl

This basically eliminates LAC from having any discussion in this.

That's interesting. I was going to suggest that they could orchestrate two separate trades to evade such a rule, but Frye for Beverley is about 200k off.

JLei · Post #1566 » by **JLei** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:04 pm

No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

BasketballFan7 · Post #1567 » by **BasketballFan7** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:19 pm

JLei wrote:No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

Good signing. He hit his jumpers at an impressive rate last season and looked great athletically. Playing with LeBron should mitigate some of his deficiencies as a floor general.

JordansBulls · Post #1568 » by **JordansBulls** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 8:44 pm

Lebron will be able to conserve his energy with Rose on the squad now.

Heej · Post #1569 » by **Heej** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 9:00 pm

JLei wrote:No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

MVP Rose was the best PG defender in the league by my book. His lateral quickness and strength was no joke. You're not fielding a #1 defense with replacement level play at PG. Even Curry is solidly above average

GSP · Post #1570 » by **GSP** » Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:43 pm

Heej wrote:
JLei wrote:No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

MVP Rose was the best PG defender in the league by my book. His lateral quickness and strength was no joke. You're not fielding a #1 defense with replacement level play at PG. Even Curry is solidly above average

I wouldnt go that far...Kidd, Kirk, Cp3, Conley, Lowry, Jrue, Rondo.....were they all better than him? No but i dont think he was better than all of them. He was a pretty good defender in 2011 and 2012 tho IMO, his physical gifts under Thibs really shined on the defensive end

Heej · Post #1571 » by **Heej** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:10 am

GSP wrote:
Heej wrote:
JLei wrote:No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

MVP Rose was the best PG defender in the league by my book. His lateral quickness and strength was no joke. You're not fielding a #1 defense with replacement level play at PG. Even Curry is solidly above average

I wouldnt go that far...Kidd, Kirk, Cp3, Conley, Lowry, Jrue, Rondo.....were they all better than him? No but i dont think he was better than all of them. He was a pretty good defender in 2011 and 2012 tho IMO, his physical gifts under Thibs really shined on the defensive end

Is it definitive? No that's quite impossible to pinpoint for PG defense. What I can say is that Rose was dominant in Thibs ICE scheme. Dude just would not let himself get screened while his man went middle. His footwork slithering around screens the miniscule percentage of the time he couldn't force his man away was really impeccable with Ron Addams coaching him.

And when he overplayed the ICE occasionally he basically teleported back into the play every time while the big dropped and contained. And while the predictive abilities of this as a stat is almost nil, he lead PGs in blocks with a little over 1 a game iirc which is damn impressive. I really thought he was dominant inasmuch as a PG can be dominant defensively.

Unfortunately injuries have sapped him of a substantial portion of his lateral quickness. But Rose's excellent defense was always one of my favorite neat little quips of that season and entirely the reason why I don't believe he was a fraud MVP candidate that season like revisionist history tells us.

Baski · Post #1572 » by **Baski** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:00 pm

What are his realistic chances for a championship if Kyrie is gone? Are they kaput, or is there some trade that could make it possible?

BasketballFan7 · Post #1573 » by **BasketballFan7** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 3:05 pm

Baski wrote:What are his realistic chances for a championship if Kyrie is gone? Are they kaput, or is there some trade that could make it possible?

I think the team can be better if they don't put the focus on acquiring a young asset. I've said Kemba and Batum a few times and IMO that makes them better. As does Melo and Bledsoe or Bledsoe and Middleton. Isaiah Thomas and Crowder. Etc. If they want to improve their chances they have to prioritize getting two quality contributors.

Tinseltown · Post #1574 » by **Tinseltown** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:59 pm

JLei wrote:No one has talked about Rose yet?

Depending on role I really don't think he's going to be too bad offensively. He was 4th in the league in PTS off drives (pretty pathetic assist rate though) on not awful efficiency. Playing with Korver, Frye, Smith, Love and obviously Bron can only help open up room for him. He's still fast as hell.

He hasn't given a **** defensively in a long time and has been just plain bad these last 2 seasons. But under Thibs he was able to play replacement level defense (better than Kyrie at least).

Could be a nice addition.

The thing people are forgetting about Derrick Rose is that he tore his meniscus AGAIN in April. Yes, April 2017. The Knicks were such a trainwreck and Rose has suffered so many knee injuries that this one sort of flew under the radar, but it's a big deal and it's the main reason why Rose could only find a few teams willing to offer him a minimum contract.

LikeABosh · Post #1575 » by **LikeABosh** » Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:49 pm

Altman just said Rose will be coming off the bench and is happy about it. If that's true and not a front because Kyrie is still on the team then that's great news for the Cavs.

MisterHibachi · Post #1576 » by **MisterHibachi** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:34 pm

Read on Twitter

Not a bad trade to be honest. Crowder is a great piece, IT is good but poses the same defensive issues as Kyrie so it's a wash, plus the unprotected Brooklyn pick is a great get.

Post #1577 » by **bondom34** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:38 pm

lol Ainge. Cleveland just got better and the Nets pick tops it off. Amazing trade.

eminence · Post #1578 » by **eminence** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:45 pm

Crowder the best piece in the deal, fight me.

toodles23 · Post #1579 » by **toodles23** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:50 pm

Not sure what to think. For the Cavs, I think it's clearly a good move since they got the Nets pick with it, but for Lebron, it seems like a wash. IT and Kyrie are very similar players and have very similar issues, but the most major difference in my mind is that they're going from a bad defender to a guy who's truly atrocious (not really his fault, there's only so much a 5'9 guy can do).

Crowder may actually end up being a bigger deal for the Cavs than the IT/Kyrie swap. They desperately need a plus defender who can knock down threes on the wing, and Crowder is exactly that. Shump should be out of the rotation entirely now, thank god.

RCM88x · Post #1580 » by **RCM88x** » Tue Aug 22, 2017 11:52 pm

I'm still worried about IT4's hip, if it proves to be a non issue this is definitely the best deal that the Cavs could possibly have gotten.

Quite nice as well that the Cavs basically have the players who can bridge the gap post Lebron now, before their draft picks start coming back. Plus, a in a Lebron-less east, this team minus Lebron could definitely be a 2nd round team.

Also kind of funny that the Cavs now basically have the two shortest PG's in the league now, Felder and IT.