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Quotatious wrote:

1996 David Robinson
1963 Oscar Robertson
1988 Kevin McHale
2004 Andrei Kirilenko
2008 Raja Bell
1997 Mario Elie
1986 Manute Bol
1997 Dave Twardzik

Narigo wrote:

1990 Magic Johnson
1993 Karl Malone
1983 Moses Malone
1990 Jeff Hornacek
2017 Patrick Beverly
1989 Jack Sikma
1989 Craig Ehlo
1970 Guy Rodgers

Contestants have until 4 PM EST on Sunday to submit their write-ups, that is exactly 48 hours. Then after that, hopefully judges can submit their votes in a further 48 hours.

PG: Patrick Beverly(35) Guy Rodgers(13)
SG: Magic Johnson(38)Craig Ehlo(10)
SF: Jeff Hornacek(35) Craig Ehlo(13)
PF: Karl Malone(38) Jack Sikma(10)
C: Moses Malone(34) Jack Sikma(14)


Quotious front court is pretty good but I match up with him really well. First off, Maunte Bol is a huge negative on offense. If he is in the game I can actually double team Mchale or Robinson.

My backup center Jack Sikma is actually a good three point shooter and matches up well against Robinson. In six games he played against Robinson, Sikma shot 61 percent from the three point line on 5.3 attempts. This helps with spacing becuase it forces Robinson and Bol outside the paint. And it makes it easier for Moses or Karl to post up.

Also, I think my spacing is good in general. I chose 1990 Magic Johnson because he was a much better shooter from distance. He shot 38% from the three point line. Hornacek and Karl Malone are good without the basketball. Beverly could shoot from deep. Hornacek is actually a decent ball handler and is quite good at running the pick and roll. In Pheonix, when Kevin Johnson was on the bench, Hornacek was the primary ball handler. Moses is the GOAT offensive rebounder and above average at posting up. Sikma is a good shooter and a great playmaker for his position. Magic is great at the pick and roll and Malone is a excellent roll man

Also, my defense is underrated imo. My team is actually quite good at defending passing lanes and getting steals. Beverly, Hornacek, Karl and Magic average close to 2 steals per game. Moses is pretty good at post defense and shot blocking. Ehlo and Sikma are great defenders.

I update more later

ardee wrote:1997 Dave Twardzik

1977.

Rotation:

C - Robinson 32/Bol 16
PF - McHale 38/Robinson 5/Kirilenko 5
SF - Kirilenko 32/Elie 16
SG - Bell 35/Elie 7/Robertson 6
PG - Robertson 36/Twardzik 12

Should be a great series. Three extremely interesting matchups - Robinson vs Moses, McHale vs Karl, Oscar vs Magic.

Strategy

Offensively, we'll rely a lot on Robertson/Robinson pick & roll. Moses in 1983 was a pretty good defender (unlike vast majority of his career), but more so in terms of low post defense, especially man to man against opposing centers, where he could use his strength, aggressiveness, and tenacity. He was also a good shot-blocker that year (2 blocks per game), but going outside and guarding someone as athletic as prime David Robinson on his hard and quick rolls to the basket, is not something that he would do well. Beverley is a good defender, but he's much smaller than Robertson, so Big O will have an easy time getting clean looks over him from the mid-range area. I don't think Narigo's team is well-suited to switching on pick & roll against my best players.

Kevin McHale was SUPERB in 1988 as a scorer - 22.6 ppg on 65.6% TS in the regular season, and even better in the playoffs - 25.4 ppg on 67% TS in the playoffs. These are incredible numbers, and he averaged 26.8 ppg on 62.9% TS against the Bad Boy Pistons in 1988 ECF. On paper, Karl Malone is a better player than McHale, but looking at those particular versions of both players, Mailman couldn't outplay young Shawn Kemp enough to lead the Jazz to the second round, so I feel very good about that matchup from my team's perspective. McHale can definitely play Karl to a standstill or even outplay him by a bit. Well, at least in terms of scoring, good case can be made that McHale is a better option than Karl in this context.

Both Robinson and McHale played with other star bigs and had success - McHale with Parish, Robinson already experience of playing with Terry Cummings in 1990 (D-Rob was already in his prime as a rookie, and Cummings was a legitimate star that year - they led the Spurs to 56 wins and almost made conference finals, losing game 7 of the second round by 3 points against the Blazers on the road, then obviously D-Rob won the title with Duncan in 1999), so the fit will certainly be good, I don't even have to worry about that.

Kirilenko will cut to the basket and Bell will spot up for threes (same as Elie). Twardzik was deadly as a shooter on open mid-range jumpers.

Defensively, we'll have the following matchups:

Robinson/Bol guards Moses/Sikma
McHale guards Karl
Kirilenko guards Magic (Bell/Elie are secondary defenders against him)
Bell/Elie guards Hornacek/Ehlo
Robertson/Twardzik guards Beverley/Rodgers

We want to make sure that Oscar stays fresh, so we don't want him to guard Magic. Kirilenko/Bell/Elie is an excellent trio to throw at Johnson, so we don't have to put Oscar on him.

Manute Bol averaged 5 blocks per game in 26 minutes (and almost 6 blocks in 30 minutes in the playoffs), so even in just about 16 minutes (which is all that I'll give him in this matchup), he'll make a major impact against Moses and Karl.

Why my team would win? Well, the battle of the big guns in the frontcourt is roughly a wash, but defensively my team has better answers for Magic than Narigo's team has for Oscar. 2004 Kirilenko was an extremely impactful player (8th in the league in PER, 5th in WS, 2nd in BPM, top 15 in RAPM, very nearly led a weak Jazz team to the playoffs, a team that many people predicted to be one of the worst of all-time, after Malone's departure and Stockton's retirement, so AK-47 had impact of a legitimate star that year), he's clearly better than any player than Narigo has, other than his big 3 of Magic/Karl/Moses. Kirilenko is absolutely crucial in this matchup because his defense against Magic will be key.

Generally speaking I think Q's team is well put together, but there are some real problems with spacing, especially in the starting 5.

However, I don't think Nargio's team is suited to take advantage of that. Beverly, Karl and Moses are all good man defenders but Magic is average to below average and Hornaceck is terrible. They don't have an anchor or what seems to be a set of players capable of working within an overarching defensive scheme. I think Q can take advantage of this defense regardless of his spacing issues.

On offense, Narigo will probably suffer from congestion as well, particularly with Magic trying to drive with the Malones in the paint. Q's defense is elite in this case at almost every position AND I think they could put together a good overall scheme.

Non voting obviously, but seems good for Q.

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Hmm... '97 Twardzik could really struggle in this one

Bump. Narigo posted his write-up, so I think the judges can step in here.

Curious to see how the rebounding would turn out. Narigo has a front court Brute Squad; McHale was a weak defensive rebounder (though a decent block out guy which often has a similar effect). On the other side Magic carried those aging Kareem/AC Green/Worthy teams which is a much worse rebounding squad than anything with David Robinson. I'd guess Narigo has a significant advantage here though.

On the other side, good as Kirilenko was, he was more a PF playing SF and more a great help defender than a great man guy; I don't see him being that good against Magic.

The spacing issue with Moses and Karl inside is huge; I'd space in Sikma quickly and give him minutes, even at the expense of ATG's like the Malones.

Interesting matchup; I'm leaning Quotes in this but would like to see a Narigo rebuttal.

Agree with a lot of what's been said. Some additional thoughts:

-I like AK on Magic mostly because I think it disrupts his post game and the passing lanes that come from it. 90 Magic loved to back you down.
-Like the Beverly/Horny combo around Magic
-The Malones don't seem like they fit together. At least Karl is more mid post and a good passer.
-The defensive thing Q has going on. Hats off.
-Don't think spacing is that big of an issue with Robinson and McHale playing hi-low like the Celtics did, or McHale taking weak side space on the 1/5 PnR Q wants to run a lot. No, it won't be an empty lane, but I don't think that's really an "issue," especially given that McHale is 6-11 and can finish with a catch and shoot mid-range or a dive and finish.
-Rebounding is an interesting thought -- Narigo probably does very well in DREB% but I don't see Moses making a major single-handed dent in OREB%.
-1997 Dave Twardzik was a beast in Silver Sneakers.

If there isn't any reason to change, let me make it clear -- vote Quotatious.

Q's team, I feel like I see where he is going with it. The long, defensive front line with two 3 & D wings should make a strong defensive unit, and Oscar as the offensive engine with DRob and McHale as strong frontcourt scorers has the potential for a solid offense as well. There is limitation there, as Kirilenko was mainly an offensive swiss army knife that would be asked to be more of a shooter and/or secondary perimeter facilitator here and...doesn't feel like the best fit for him. Makes the offense less versatile and maybe limits the upside. But, on the whole, this team has a solid personality.

With Narigo's squad, I'm not sure I've found the identity, it feels more like a random group of guys that would attempt to get by on talent. As someone (ElGee?) pointed out, the Malones don't seem like a good fit to me for a frontline. They have too many similarities, and not a whole lot of versatility. Neither is really an anchor, and both are good post defenders that rely on muscle more-so than speed or length. Magic may just be the offensive GOAT, but he gives you another big, physical not-that-athletic guy on the court. Beverley's a bull dog, but I just don't love their defense. And Magic seems like he could do with more shooters and cutters. He's got some of that, but the team just doesn't feel like a great fit on either offense or defense.

Here, I feel like Q's defense should be dominant enough to really make things difficult on Narigo, while his offense should be effective enough to create and take advantage of their scoring opportunities. Thus, Q's squad gets my vote

The first thing that jumps out at me is Q’s front court. The fit with McHale and Robinson is great, as I see them really staying out of each other’s way. While they weren’t known as premier passers at their position, I can see a lot of quick feeds from either block to each other for easy baskets, and they’re both quick decision makers. Kirilenko is great roaming off the ball and cutting to the hoop, so he’s a nice versatile addition at SF. My main worry abound be a lack of guard depth and relying on Robertson has a primary (and even closer to singular) playmaker.

Narigo’s roster is pretty interesting to pick apart. Pairing Beverley with Magic is smart, allowing him to focus on defending the better guard between the two starters. In this matchup I don’t know how effective it would be as I don’t see Oscar being as bothered by Beverley relative to most. Hornacek is as solid as they come as a secondary playmaker and shooter, but then I worry about how they handle Kirilenko on the other end. Magic will be chasing him around if they gameplan around that, and he’s just so much bigger than hornacek, he could do damage cutting inside.

While the two Malones together are obviously beasts, I do see them getting in each other's way at times on offense, and their defense overall leaves something to be desired. Sigma was a great addition, but he doesn’t quite put them over the edge to me with my other concerns. I ultimately have to go with Q here, more so as a bad matchup for Narigo than a sheer advantage in talent.

Vote: Quotatious

Agree that Q's defense looks excellent, and I like that he's penciled in at least 5 minutes of twin towers. It's funny how "fixed" the rotations are in these leagues, because IRL you don't always play 5 minutes of your twin towers. You play 0 or 2 one night and then you play 12 the next when the game dictates it.

Anyway, after deeper thinking I have reservations about Oscar. I think it's sort of a brilliant attempt by Q to give this team an offensive quarterback. He's done that. But from a guy who might not be a viable outside threat, which might hamper his modern-day impact. Despite that...

vote: Quotatious

Elgee, Oscar's career averages are 83.8 FT% and 8.8 FTA. Among all players with at least 80% and 5 FTA, who played since 90s only Yao, Derozan and Abdul-Rahim shot below 30% from 3p land. So it's very unlikely player with that skillset, shooting touch, wouldn't be at least average 3p shooter today.

Bump