RealGM Top 100 All-Time (2017)

[Vindicater]

Everytime I see Hakeem in front of Bird I cringe...

[scrabbarista]

Everytime I see Hakeem in front of Bird I cringe...

Hakeem was pretty good. Could control the game on both ends. He also had by far the worst teammates among the top 11 guys. If he and Bird traded teammates, most people would probably see both players very differently.

In my opinion, it's close, and I've flip flopped both of them a few times, but I have Dream at #9 and Bird at #10 right now. (Without checking the list, I seem to remember RGM has them there as well.)

[scrabbarista]

Everytime I see Hakeem in front of Bird I cringe...

Looking at BBREF's Playoff careers advanced numbers, in 6,886 minutes (164 games) for Bird and 5,749 minutes (145 games) for Olajuwon:

Olajuwon is better at:
PER Bird 21.4 Olajuwon 25.7
TS% Bird .551 Olajuwon .569
WS/48 Bird .173 Olajuwon .189.
BPM Bird 6.9 Olajuwon 7.1
TRB% Bird 13.9% Olajuwon 16.0%
STL% Bird 2.1% Olajuwon 2.2%
BLK% Bird 1.2% Olajuwon 5.5%
TO% Bird 12.5% Olajuwon 11.1%
USG% Bird 24.8% Olajuwon 28.9%


Bird is better at:
AST% Bird 23.7 Olajuwon 15.6

In 1,137 more minutes, Bird has less than two more total WS and wins in VORP only 15.4 to 13.2. Like I said, Hakeem was pretty good.

[WarriorGM]

Everytime I see Hakeem in front of Bird I cringe...

Looking at BBREF's Playoff careers advanced numbers, in 6,886 minutes (164 games) for Bird and 5,749 minutes (145 games) for Olajuwon:

Olajuwon is better at:
PER Bird 21.4 Olajuwon 25.7.
TS% Bird .551 Olajuwon .569
WS/48 Bird .173 Olajuwon .189.
BPM Bird 6.9 Olajuwon 7.1
TRB% Bird 13.9% Olajuwon 16.0%
STL% Bird 2.1% Olajuwon 2.2%
BLK% Bird 1.2% Olajuwon 5.5%
TO% Bird 12.5% Olajuwon 11.1%
USG% Bird 24.8% Olajuwon 28.9%


Bird is better at:
AST% Bird 23.7 Olajuwon 15.6

In 1,137 more minutes, Bird has less than two more total WS and wins in VORP only 15.4 to 13.2. Like I said, Hakeem was pretty good.

I don't know how you got the 1137 more minutes total. In their careers Hakeem played 5 more seasons and around 10000 more minutes.

[janmagn]

Everytime I see Hakeem in front of Bird I cringe...

Looking at BBREF's Playoff careers advanced numbers, in 6,886 minutes (164 games) for Bird and 5,749 minutes (145 games) for Olajuwon:

Olajuwon is better at:
PER Bird 21.4 Olajuwon 25.7.
TS% Bird .551 Olajuwon .569
WS/48 Bird .173 Olajuwon .189.
BPM Bird 6.9 Olajuwon 7.1
TRB% Bird 13.9% Olajuwon 16.0%
STL% Bird 2.1% Olajuwon 2.2%
BLK% Bird 1.2% Olajuwon 5.5%
TO% Bird 12.5% Olajuwon 11.1%
USG% Bird 24.8% Olajuwon 28.9%


Bird is better at:
AST% Bird 23.7 Olajuwon 15.6

In 1,137 more minutes, Bird has less than two more total WS and wins in VORP only 15.4 to 13.2. Like I said, Hakeem was pretty good.

I don't know how you got the 1137 more minutes total. In their careers Hakeem played 5 more seasons and around 10000 more minutes.

Playoffs

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[dodongo]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

[Dutchball97]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

Seeing as this as this done every 3 years this seems like a good time but I think it's better to wait untill this season is officially finished or cancelled.

[AdagioPace]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

I'm looking at James Harden as the major beneficiary of this future update
Giannis and Kawhi quite a bit (Giannis should finally be introduced). CP3 deserves some minor "boosting"
I don't see Curry and Durant getting any remarkable incentive

[Dutchball97]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

I'm looking at James Harden as the major beneficiary of this future update
Giannis and Kawhi quite a bit (Giannis should finally be introduced). CP3 deserves some minor "boosting"
I don't see Curry and Durant getting any remarkable incentive

I reckon the voter pool is going to be noticeably different after 3 years. We could see just about anyone change quite a few spots. Like is David Robinson going to sneak into the top 10 or will he be outside the top 25? Either is possible

[penbeast0]

I've never seen DRob have any traction for top 10 in any of these we've done over the past decade plus. Hakeem is the one who has moved to marginal top 10 as LeBron has moved into the top 5, almost no one ranks David Robinson over him thanks to his playoff performances.

[baldur]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

it is not worth adding maybe only a few more players to the list. it should be done like every 10 years to make the effort worthy if you ask me.

[Run DLC]

The whole list is wrong. Durant should be ranked at #1

[RCM88x]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

it is not worth adding maybe only a few more players to the list. it should be done like every 10 years to make the effort worthy if you ask me.

Yeah, especially with only 2.5 new seasons of data, I don't think it would be worth the effort.

Maybe if it was just top 25 or top 30, but activity after the 50s is hard to come by even in normal years.

[penbeast0]

since everyone has to stay home, would this be a good time to update this list?

it is not worth adding maybe only a few more players to the list. it should be done like every 10 years to make the effort worthy if you ask me.

It's not really a ranking list as much as an excuse to do what we love, debate basketball history. We do it every 3 or 4 years to take advantage of the turnover in posters for new arguments and new debates; but it's never been a best of written on tablets of stone and wouldn't be every 10 years or so either.

[Dr Positivity]

I'd be down for another round. I think posters here have changed quite a bit since 2017 as well.

[eminence]

I think I'd like to hear the official say on this season/next before diving into this project (like if they hold playoffs in August or something I'd say get that out of the way instead of going half through this list and finishing a season), but if it comes around soon I'd be up for participating.

[Dutchball97]

I think I'd like to hear the official say on this season/next before diving into this project (like if they hold playoffs in August or something I'd say get that out of the way instead of going half through this list and finishing a season), but if it comes around soon I'd be up for participating.

I'm not sure if it's any indication but the Dutch government has just cancelled all events till september. The US has it worse with the virus and their peak is also coming later than ours so I highly doubt the US is going to deviate from this and hold events in the summer anyway. I'm 99% sure the season is done. I think we'll probably hear more in the coming weeks.

[eminence]

I think I'd like to hear the official say on this season/next before diving into this project (like if they hold playoffs in August or something I'd say get that out of the way instead of going half through this list and finishing a season), but if it comes around soon I'd be up for participating.

I'm not sure if it's any indication but the Dutch government has just cancelled all events till september. The US has it worse with the virus and their peak is also coming later than ours so I highly doubt the US is going to deviate from this and hold events in the summer anyway. I'm 99% sure the season is done. I think we'll probably hear more in the coming weeks.

I hope that the season is done, but ya never know around these parts

[scrabbarista]

I'm up for another go after participating for the first time in 2017. I've been working on a revamp of my formula tonight. I've run the numbers for 27 players, and it looks like something I can live with - an improvement, overall. I'm not thrilled about it moving Garnett over Nowitzki, but there always has to be give and take with a formula, and I think I can swallow the bitter pill on that one. It's only one spot, anyway, with Garnett 12th (up from 15th), and Nowitzki 13th (same as the previous formula).

[QMaster]

You guys underrate Bird badly. There's literally no one that's had his skill set and ability since him

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