I thought 1991 was Michael Jordan's peak?

[dhsilv2]

I find it funny that posters call the suns defense (focused on MJ with even triple teams at points) weak, yet Durant gets easy open buckets all series long with no double teams. Seriously what is our context here? Because that suns defense is more challenging to face than anything the current players face, easy.

What are you not getting? You're comparing KD to Jordan when he was the Pippen on the Warriors. The cavs weren't guarding KD by design...they were NOT going to let curry beat them.

[Jiminy Glick]

1989

[oldschooled]

1992. Jordan at the time was the perfect combination of smooth, domination and supreme confidence. Add his playoff performance and it made his 1992 version a masterpiece.

[1993Playoffs]

1989 was my fave MJ season, he was basically the same level from 89-92, with 93 being a slight drop off,

[r0drig0lac]

As I have browsed this forum, it's a consensus here that 1990-1991 MJ was at his peak, and I also agree with that.
But 2K17 says otherwise. I have noticed the 2 classic Chicago Bulls that was in the game.

1990-1991 Michael Jordan has 98 rating, while the 1992-1993 MJ has the highest rating which is 99.

What do you think about this?

Well I guess it's settled then

2K>>> REAL LIFE no doubt

[Drylick]

90 and 91 Jordan are probably the two best, with 89 next.

Yea, thats why I asked why do you think 2K made 93 MJ better than 91?
Is there a case for it?

1993 Finals. He was also awesome in the Regular Season, but you can see that it really is inferior to his 1991 season.

[Drylick]

I go with 1991 or 1992, it's basically the same guy and you're splitting hairs.

In the Lakers series his off ball game was insane, he was slicing us up like a maniac, and the passing was next level, not to mention his defense on Magic.

Meanwhile in 1992 he had IMO the single best game anyone as ever had with the Shrug game. So there's that.

Impact wise it's basically the same, so narrative might be the determining factor.

1990 is pretty close too, I think his signature games from 1991 and 1992 seal the deal though.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

Was he really picking up Magic full court on D?

Yes. Watch all of the games of that series again.

[LakerLegend]

I go with 1991 or 1992, it's basically the same guy and you're splitting hairs.

In the Lakers series his off ball game was insane, he was slicing us up like a maniac, and the passing was next level, not to mention his defense on Magic.

Meanwhile in 1992 he had IMO the single best game anyone as ever had with the Shrug game. So there's that.

Impact wise it's basically the same, so narrative might be the determining factor.

1990 is pretty close too, I think his signature games from 1991 and 1992 seal the deal though.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

I go with 1991 or 1992, it's basically the same guy and you're splitting hairs.

In the Lakers series his off ball game was insane, he was slicing us up like a maniac, and the passing was next level, not to mention his defense on Magic.

Meanwhile in 1992 he had IMO the single best game anyone as ever had with the Shrug game. So there's that.

Impact wise it's basically the same, so narrative might be the determining factor.

1990 is pretty close too, I think his signature games from 1991 and 1992 seal the deal though.

Sent from my SM-J700F using RealGM mobile app

Was he really picking up Magic full court on D?

Yes. Watch all of the games of that series again.

Uh Magic was killing him in the post the entire series. Too big and too strong. He couldn't guard him.

[KyletheDingbat]

I watched 93 finals many times, but I decided to watch this video once again now and same observation as always, defense is so terrible it's hard to watch. Can't imagine so bad team in todays PO.

Watch the full game. Dont judge it from a 9 minute offensive clip. Suns were a good defensive team....Jordan made his defenders look slow on those highlights

Like I said I watched those finals not once and must disagree with you. Suns were very bad at defending Jordan, it's not Jordan who made them slow, he was no faster than many guards today. They were just extremely slow and with no idea how to defend players like him. Just 90s defense

I think defense almost always looks bad in any era. I can't believe how poorly defense is played today. Guys just swoop in for uncontested layups while the defender just stands there with his feet planted and arms up. Last years Finals was like an all star game. My grandfather used to complain when we'd watch games 10-20 years ago that the defense was nothing like it was in the 60's. I think we project in our minds what defense is supposed to look like, and what we see on TV doesn't always match.

[oaktownwarriors87]

Ratings in NBA games are most useless thing in any players comparisons. Every year every new NBA games ranks players different for the same years and it says completely nothing on their impact those years.

SILENCE!

NBA2K HAS SPOKEN.

[Nbafanatic]

1990 Jordan is the intersection of his all time level athleticism and his balanced approach to the game.

This is my thought process too, and that was his best year regarding his 3 point shooting as well, hitting 37% with some good volume for that era, three attempts per game. He was a good enough 3 point shooter when he put his mind into it, and the 89-90 season is the proof. Like others have said anyway, any year from 88-92 can be argued as his peak, only 93 gets out of the conversation because he really coasted big time on defense in the regular season, coming from 4 straight deep playoff runs plus the '92 Olympics, that was understandable.

[bledredwine]

I find it funny that posters call the suns defense (focused on MJ with even triple teams at points) weak, yet Durant gets easy open buckets all series long with no double teams. Seriously what is our context here? Because that suns defense is more challenging to face than anything the current players face, easy.

What are you not getting? You're comparing KD to Jordan when he was the Pippen on the Warriors. The cavs weren't guarding KD by design...they were NOT going to let curry beat them.

What a silly argument. NO player in the league now regularly faces double teams. The court is spread. Jordan was doubled constantly because he was more unstoppable than anyone around today, by a large margin. Yet your counter argument is that they won't defend KD well? We're talking about Kevin's a Durant who outscored his matchup Lebron James in both of their finals series . I'm sorry, it's the truth- jordan demanded doubles. He was too good.

[NbaAllDay]

So if 91 Jordan is 98-99 then realistically what should 1998 Jordan be in 2k?

[NbaAllDay]

I find it funny that posters call the suns defense (focused on MJ with even triple teams at points) weak, yet Durant gets easy open buckets all series long with no double teams. Seriously what is our context here? Because that suns defense is more challenging to face than anything the current players face, easy.

What are you not getting? You're comparing KD to Jordan when he was the Pippen on the Warriors. The cavs weren't guarding KD by design...they were NOT going to let curry beat them.

What a silly argument. NO player in the league now regularly faces double teams. The court is spread. Jordan was doubled constantly because he was more unstoppable than anyone around today, by a large margin. Yet your counter argument is that they won't defend KD well? We're talking about Kevin's a Durant who outscored his matchup Lebron James in both of their finals series . I'm sorry, it's the truth- jordan demanded doubles. He was too good.

Jordan is a god. We get it.

Jordan is the best. He destroyed every team. He never played a bad minute in any game of any series.

I actually don't recall him missing a shot, ever.

Lebron was dominated by Durant

This Warriors team was garbage compared the the Suns.

Jordan scored 1v5 on every possession.

Just clarifying what you've said iin any post regarding Jordan being anything other than a perfect player.

In all seriousness though. If you are comparing the circumstances of the Suns D and the Warriors D, you really are hitting your head against a brick wall.

the two situations are completely different. Jordan never had an opponent directly against even close to the likes of KD in the Finals, as far as scoring goes. Not even close.
Nor did he face a team as good as these Warriors in which the focus had to be spread through 4 elite players on the court at any given time (1 top tier scorer and two elite scores).

We don't even need to go into the level of D Jordan face, in comparison to some of the players today. He was the most elite defender he faced in the Finals? how many elite defenders did he face through his 6 Rings?

Or are we going to claim that he was doubled on every possession yet his assists rating is comparably low. Maybe his teammates were garbage too.

[Joao Saraiva]

Well so much talk about the Suns defense.

Dan Majerle can't even keep up with MJ at any time. He can't keep up with his 1st step, with his crossovers... nothing. And then the help D... my god the help D. Everytime the Suns come to contest him he's already at the rim. It gets pretty obvious when at that clip Majerle is asking for help at the 3 point line and he keeps screaming and screaming until MJ is at the rim and there is no contest.

So.. what's up with that? MJ had to face them and delivered. Not his fault that the Suns were an average defensive team (9th in the league). It's not like he had a great series against the Suns and then disappeared against elite defensive teams. He always delivered.

[J_T]

If that's Jordans prime, what was 1993 finals Jordan? AKA easily the most unstoppable player we've seen? His midrange and inside game were GOAT level. He averaged a finals record 41 along 9 reb 6 assists and only 2.7 TO's per game against double, sometimes triple teams, tough defense and a clogged lane. He also averaged .400 from 3. He was on fire all series. Before Paxson's championship winner? Jordan scored all 12 of the Bulls 4th quarter points. This is what people are unaware of. In terms of his sheer strength, athleticism, flexibility, speed and first step? You could argue this to be athletic GOAT peak as well. Watch and you'll see why.

Watch on YouTube

Perfect. It looks like laws of gravity worked differently for him.

[dhsilv2]

I find it funny that posters call the suns defense (focused on MJ with even triple teams at points) weak, yet Durant gets easy open buckets all series long with no double teams. Seriously what is our context here? Because that suns defense is more challenging to face than anything the current players face, easy.

What are you not getting? You're comparing KD to Jordan when he was the Pippen on the Warriors. The cavs weren't guarding KD by design...they were NOT going to let curry beat them.

What a silly argument. NO player in the league now regularly faces double teams. The court is spread. Jordan was doubled constantly because he was more unstoppable than anyone around today, by a large margin. Yet your counter argument is that they won't defend KD well? We're talking about Kevin's a Durant who outscored his matchup Lebron James in both of their finals series . I'm sorry, it's the truth- jordan demanded doubles. He was too good.

Curry was being doubled just taking the ball up the court in the finals. Teams don't hard double because hard doubles are less effective defense when you're allowed a soft one. Soft doubles make passing out vastly harder and still both shots. It's why you see much less iso and almost never in the post where you have to turn your back from the defense so you can't see where people are.

Still not sure why you're talking about KD who the cavs wanted to beat them, and not Curry who the cavs did everything in their power to stop.

[bledredwine]

What are you not getting? You're comparing KD to Jordan when he was the Pippen on the Warriors. The cavs weren't guarding KD by design...they were NOT going to let curry beat them.

What a silly argument. NO player in the league now regularly faces double teams. The court is spread. Jordan was doubled constantly because he was more unstoppable than anyone around today, by a large margin. Yet your counter argument is that they won't defend KD well? We're talking about Kevin's a Durant who outscored his matchup Lebron James in both of their finals series . I'm sorry, it's the truth- jordan demanded doubles. He was too good.

Curry was being doubled just taking the ball up the court in the finals. Teams don't hard double because hard doubles are less effective defense when you're allowed a soft one. Soft doubles make passing out vastly harder and still both shots. It's why you see much less iso and almost never in the post where you have to turn your back from the defense so you can't see where people are.

Still not sure why you're talking about KD who the cavs wanted to beat them, and not Curry who the cavs did everything in their power to stop.

Go ahead and link me to videos of Curry being doubled and I can easily triple that amount with jordan in the same amount of time. Are you telling me that Curry is doubled as much as Jordan was? If you truly believe it, type "Steph Curry is doubled more than Michael Jordan." I'd like a new avatar quote, and would love to pull out single game video samples from the finals and count them together.

[Ron Swanson]

If that's Jordans prime, what was 1993 finals Jordan? AKA easily the most unstoppable player we've seen? His midrange and inside game were GOAT level. He averaged a finals record 41 along 9 reb 6 assists and only 2.7 TO's per game against double, sometimes triple teams, tough defense and a clogged lane. He also averaged .400 from 3. He was on fire all series. Before Paxson's championship winner? Jordan scored all 12 of the Bulls 4th quarter points. This is what people are unaware of. In terms of his sheer strength, athleticism, flexibility, speed and first step? You could argue this to be athletic GOAT peak as well. Watch and you'll see why.

Watch on YouTube

Perfect. It looks like laws of gravity worked differently for him.

Just watching that video and looking at how many of those bumps, crowding the shooter, hand checks, and contests that would be called fouls in today's NBA. Honestly makes Jeff Van-Gundy's statement that "Jordan would average 40 in today's league" seem entirely plausible.

[dhsilv2]

What a silly argument. NO player in the league now regularly faces double teams. The court is spread. Jordan was doubled constantly because he was more unstoppable than anyone around today, by a large margin. Yet your counter argument is that they won't defend KD well? We're talking about Kevin's a Durant who outscored his matchup Lebron James in both of their finals series . I'm sorry, it's the truth- jordan demanded doubles. He was too good.

Curry was being doubled just taking the ball up the court in the finals. Teams don't hard double because hard doubles are less effective defense when you're allowed a soft one. Soft doubles make passing out vastly harder and still both shots. It's why you see much less iso and almost never in the post where you have to turn your back from the defense so you can't see where people are.

Still not sure why you're talking about KD who the cavs wanted to beat them, and not Curry who the cavs did everything in their power to stop.

Go ahead and link me to videos of Curry being doubled and I can easily triple that amount with jordan in the same amount of time. Are you telling me that Curry is doubled as much as Jordan was? If you truly believe it, type "Steph Curry is doubled more than Michael Jordan." I'd like a new avatar quote, and would love to pull out single game video samples from the finals and count them together.

Comparing a team using iso plays to a team that doesn't is rather silly. And trying to illustrate a soft vs a hard double is not always easy, it's why soft doubles are so hard to score against in isolation. The whole push towards 5 shooters was a counter to zone defense.