2016-17 Top 50

[JoeMalburg]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Steph Curry
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Russell Westbrook
6. James Harden
7. Chris Paul
8. Gianni's Antekounmpo
9. Anthony Davis
10. John Wall
11. Jimmy Butler
12. Karl Anthony-Towns
13. Isaiah Thomas
14. Rudy Gobert
15. DeMarcus Cousins
16. Draymond Green
17. Damian Lillard
18. Kyle Lowry
19. Kyrie Irving
20. Paul George
21. Mike Conley
22. Gordon Hayward
23. Marc Gasol
24. Blake Griffin
25. Paul Millsap
26. Nikola Jokic
27. DeMar DeRozan
28. Hassan Whiteside
29. Bradley Beal
30. DeAndre Jordan
31. Kevin Love
32. Al Horford
33. Klay Thompson
34. Carmelo Anthony
35. Kemba Walker
36. C.J McCollum
37. Goran Dragic
38. Dwight Howard
39. Andre Drummond
40. Brook Lopez
41. Eric Bledsoe
42. LaMarcus Aldridge
43. Dwayne Wade
44. Myles Turner
45. Paul Gasol
46. Jeff Teague
47. Danilo Gallinari
48. Otto Porter
49. Ricky Rubio
50. Nicolas Batum

Honorable Mention
Greg Monroe
Lou Williams
Tobias Harris
Nikola Vucevic
Jrue Holliday
Patrick Beverley
Kristaps Porzingas
Serve Ibaka
Julius Randle
Devin Booker
Andrew Wiggins
Victor Oladipo
Dennis Schroeder
Harrison Barnes
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
D'Angelo Russell

Four questions I'd like you to focus on, but feel fre to improvise...

1) Is there anyone not mentioned that you think belongs in the top fifty?

2) How's the top 20 look? Regardless of order.

3) Most Overrated, underrated?

4) Your top 10 in order?

[Joey Wheeler]

The answer to your questions depends on whether this is an overall ranking or just specific to the 2016-17 season

[JoeMalburg]

The answer to your questions depends on whether this is an overall ranking or just specific to the 2016-17 season

Specific to the 2016-17 season and postseason.

[Joey Wheeler]

The answer to your questions depends on whether this is an overall ranking or just specific to the 2016-17 season

Specific to the 2016-17 season and postseason.

Then the obvious problem is Westbrook's ranking. He should be #1. Averaged a triple double for both regular season and playoffs... there's no way the likes of Curry or Durant had a better individual season. Only an analysis driven by extreme winning bias could lead to such a conclusion.

[wojoaderge]

Looks pretty decent to me

[Arman_tanzarian]

The answer to your questions depends on whether this is an overall ranking or just specific to the 2016-17 season

Specific to the 2016-17 season and postseason.

Then the obvious problem is Westbrook's ranking. He should be #1. Averaged a triple double for both regular season and playoffs... there's no way the likes of Curry or Durant had a better individual season. Only an analysis driven by extreme winning bias could lead to such a conclusion.

As opposed to determining value by flawed basic stats?

Even ignoring winning bias I don't see a case for WB over either Bron or Curry, and if we include playoff dominance I'd say KD/Leonard as well. Harden's offensive value was arguably higher as well.

So yeah averaging a triple double does not equal better imo and I'm sure many PC board posters here will echo the same.

[Arman_tanzarian]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Steph Curry
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Russell Westbrook
6. James Harden
7. Chris Paul
8. Gianni's Antekounmpo
9. Anthony Davis
10. John Wall
11. Jimmy Butler
12. Karl Anthony-Towns
13. Isaiah Thomas
14. Rudy Gobert
15. DeMarcus Cousins
16. Draymond Green
17. Damian Lillard
18. Kyle Lowry
19. Kyrie Irving
20. Paul George
21. Mike Conley
22. Gordon Hayward
23. Marc Gasol
24. Blake Griffin
25. Paul Millsap
26. Nikola Jokic
27. DeMar DeRozan
28. Hassan Whiteside
29. Bradley Beal
30. DeAndre Jordan
31. Kevin Love
32. Al Horford
33. Klay Thompson
34. Carmelo Anthony
35. Kemba Walker
36. C.J McCollum
37. Goran Dragic
38. Dwight Howard
39. Andre Drummond
40. Brook Lopez
41. Eric Bledsoe
42. LaMarcus Aldridge
43. Dwayne Wade
44. Myles Turner
45. Paul Gasol
46. Jeff Teague
47. Danilo Gallinari
48. Otto Porter
49. Ricky Rubio
50. Nicolas Batum

Honorable Mention
Greg Monroe
Lou Williams
Tobias Harris
Nikola Vucevic
Jrue Holliday
Patrick Beverley
Kristaps Porzingas
Serve Ibaka
Julius Randle
Devin Booker
Andrew Wiggins
Victor Oladipo
Dennis Schroeder
Harrison Barnes
Derrick Rose
Eric Gordon
D'Angelo Russell

Four questions I'd like you to focus on, but feel fre to improvise...

1) Is there anyone not mentioned that you think belongs in the top fifty?

2) How's the top 20 look? Regardless of order.

3) Most Overrated, underrated?

4) Your top 10 in order?

Overall good list, I have Kyle and PG higher than DMC, kyrie, lillard. So I'd just switch my list up a bit.

I have Curry 2nd and KD 3rd. Otherwise I can't argue. Curry's portability, gravity on offense and ranking at the top on ORAPM again to me too the scales in favour of KD by a smidge.

[Winsome Gerbil]

As always, I will mention that DMC is being rated a good 5 spots too low -- one side of the ball players like Goebert, Isaiah and KAT especially don't belong above him, let alone flash in the pans like Butler -- and I think this season there's a good chance he's going to expose just how badly perverted people's thinking gets on these things sometimes.

[JoeMalburg]

The answer to your questions depends on whether this is an overall ranking or just specific to the 2016-17 season

Specific to the 2016-17 season and postseason.

Then the obvious problem is Westbrook's ranking. He should be #1. Averaged a triple double for both regular season and playoffs... there's no way the likes of Curry or Durant had a better individual season. Only an analysis driven by extreme winning bias could lead to such a conclusion.

My primary measure is contribtion to team wins. And naturally every win is more valuable than the last. I measure playoff wins as decidedly more important. My issue with Russ is that his style left his team I'll preoared for the playoffs. While the four above him played equally as dominant roles in crunch time but their teams were playing more meaningful games.

Westbrook wouldn't have averaged a triple double if KD were there, but would that have made him a less valuable player?

[RCM88x]

I don't think KD is better than Curry or Westbrook or Kawhi. Rest of the list is pretty solid, though I might move IT4 below Gobert and DMC. Love and DJ might be a slight bit underrated as well, they're definitely better than Demar Derozan and Whiteside, who I might honestly both have out of the top 40 or 50. Klay probably is a bit underrated as well, especially only being one spot above Melo.

[JoeMalburg]

As always, I will mention that DMC is being rated a good 5 spots too low -- one side of the ball players like Goebert, Isaiah and KAT especially don't belong above him, let alone flash in the pans like Butler -- and I think this season there's a good chance he's going to expose just how badly perverted people's thinking gets on these things sometimes.

It does seem like he's been saddled with terribly bad teams in a highly competitive West, still I'd like to see at least one playoff trip before I include him among the elite as his numbers suggest.

[Statlanta]

The list is alright. No egregious things. Everything is basically personal preference

[Amare_1_Knicks]

I don't think KD is better than Curry or Westbrook or Kawhi. Rest of the list is pretty solid, though I might move IT4 below Gobert and DMC. Love and DJ might be a slight bit underrated as well, they're definitely better than Demar Derozan and Whiteside, who I might honestly both have out of the top 40 or 50. Klay probably is a bit underrated as well, especially only being one spot above Melo.

Klay should probably be about ten spots higher or so; I don't think he's that far off from Hayward as a player, let alone behind guys like Beal, Horford, and a few others. That being said, just going by their 2017 seasons, Melo and Klay had similar ones, probably with Melo having a little bit better a season overall, despite a notable efficiency gap(about +5.5%TS for Klay -- at least some of that, no doubt, is attributed to Klay playing for such a great team, and Melo playing with such limited options).

I'd swap AD and Giannis, Cousins and Gobert, and also IT being 6 spots higher than Kyrie stood out to me as well; same with George being 8-9 spots below Butler. Also, Porzingis would likely make the cut on my list if my made one, but as someone else said, nothing egregious about this list.

[JoeMalburg]

I don't think KD is better than Curry or Westbrook or Kawhi. Rest of the list is pretty solid, though I might move IT4 below Gobert and DMC. Love and DJ might be a slight bit underrated as well, they're definitely better than Demar Derozan and Whiteside, who I might honestly both have out of the top 40 or 50. Klay probably is a bit underrated as well, especially only being one spot above Melo.

Klay should probably be about ten spots higher or so; I don't think he's that far off from Hayward as a player, let alone behind guys like Beal, Horford, and a few others. That being said, just going by their 2017 seasons, Melo and Klay had similar ones, probably with Melo having a little bit better a season overall, despite a notable efficiency gap(about +5.5%TS for Klay -- at least some of that, no doubt, is attributed to Klay playing for such a great team, and Melo playing with such limited options).

I'd swap AD and Giannis, Cousins and Gobert, and also IT being 6 spots higher than Kyrie stood out to me as well; same with George being 8-9 spots below Butler. Also, Porzingis would likely make the cut on my list if my made one, but as someone else said, nothing egregious about this list.

Nothing you suggest sounds crazy at all. I review my lists frequently and could see myself being swayed by a Few of your thoughts if arguments were provided.

I look at Butler and George as relative equals but I feel like Butler played hard all year and PG picked his spots

Between IT and Kyrie, I'd pick Kyrie every time, but I feel like Thomas had a much better season. Irving could and should have been better, but I don't think he was.

I love that you mention AD vs. Giannis and Gobert vs. Boogie. I went back and forth so much on both and I agree with you that the two Kentucky guys are better and I think time will tell that, but this season I couldn't give them the edge as Gobert and Giannis helped their teams into position to win a playoff series.

I had Porzingas, Wiggins and Booker in my top 50 initially, but all three are so bad on advanced metrics and impact stats that I dropped them to HM.

[euroleague]

1. LeBron James
2. Kevin Durant
3. Steph Curry
4. Kawhi Leonard
5. Russell Westbrook
6. James Harden
7. Chris Paul
8. Gianni's Antekounmpo
9. Anthony Davis
10. John Wall
11. Jimmy Butler

1a. Westbrook
1b Harden
3. Kawhi
4. KD
5. LBJ
6. Curry
7. John Wall
8. Giannis Antetokounmpo
9. Jimmy Butler
10. Isiah Thomas

These are my rankings based off this year. AD didn't make the playoffs. CP3 averaged 18/9 for 60 games or so. Can't have those two in my top 10.

IT is in there primarily based off of narrative and winning.

[dhsilv2]

Gobert is grossly under valued. His defensive value is being ignored grossly and while he can't create offense, man doesn't do have a value as an offensive player. I also think this ranking devalues Jokic though I'm not sure much higher I"d rank him.

FYI I think Gobert was a tier defensively above Dray despite the DPOY award to give context to that view. Even as a UK graduate and Lexington native who LOVES wall, I think he's getting a bit too much credit making people want him in the top 10, and he's an iffy case.

[Winsome Gerbil]

Gobert is grossly under valued. His defensive value is being ignored grossly and while he can't create offense, man doesn't do have a value as an offensive player. I also think this ranking devalues Jokic though I'm not sure much higher I"d rank him.

FYI I think Gobert was a tier defensively above Dray despite the DPOY award to give context to that view. Even as a UK graduate and Lexington native who LOVES wall, I think he's getting a bit too much credit making people want him in the top 10, and he's an iffy case.

?

His defensive value is the only reason he's in the Top 50. And people have him all the way up in their Top 15. So I don't think his defensive value is being underrated.

[dhsilv2]

Gobert is grossly under valued. His defensive value is being ignored grossly and while he can't create offense, man doesn't do have a value as an offensive player. I also think this ranking devalues Jokic though I'm not sure much higher I"d rank him.

FYI I think Gobert was a tier defensively above Dray despite the DPOY award to give context to that view. Even as a UK graduate and Lexington native who LOVES wall, I think he's getting a bit too much credit making people want him in the top 10, and he's an iffy case.

?

His defensive value is the only reason he's in the Top 50. And people have him all the way up in their Top 15. So I don't think his defensive value is being underrated.

I'm guessing you don't want to talk stats, but he's top 10 in every single stat. From the time he went from a bench guy to a starter, he has night and day turned that jazz from a basement team to a playoff team. I'm ranking him around 8th because he WINS GAMES. I dunno about you, but winning is what matters to me, and he creates wins.

As for his offense, I'm not sure he's not a top 50 offensive player. Now stats aren't going to back me up here, but a big who can give you 14 a game mostly off junk, there's a value there that's hard to track imo. Still why can't the best by far defender in the game be top 10? I agree that offense>>>>>defense, but he's the BEST defender by a margin.

The other thing is his defense would be a value add on ANY team. He adds 10-20 wins to any time other than the warriors because well you can't add 10 wins to the warriors. It's not possible.

[Joey Wheeler]

Specific to the 2016-17 season and postseason.

Then the obvious problem is Westbrook's ranking. He should be #1. Averaged a triple double for both regular season and playoffs... there's no way the likes of Curry or Durant had a better individual season. Only an analysis driven by extreme winning bias could lead to such a conclusion.

My primary measure is contribtion to team wins. And naturally every win is more valuable than the last. I measure playoff wins as decidedly more important. My issue with Russ is that his style left his team I'll preoared for the playoffs. While the four above him played equally as dominant roles in crunch time but their teams were playing more meaningful games.

Westbrook wouldn't have averaged a triple double if KD were there, but would that have made him a less valuable player?

Well yes, the more great players one team has the less valuable each single player is. Just the way the sport works, there's only one ball. OKC's success is much more a reflexion of Westbrook's individual performance than GSW's success is of any single player's individual performance.

Basically what you're saying there is the other 4 were better because their teams were better. Which makes very little sense; the Warriors won 13 in a row without KD (#2 on your list); the Warriors without KD are substantially better than the Thunder even with Westbrook. That's why KD played 'more meaningful games'.

[Dr Positivity]

- A little too high for KAT with his defense rating poor last season

- Players like Lowry and Green help you win more than Cousins

- Iguodala is still in top 50. George Hill is an omission