How good would Prime Baron Davis, Stephon Marbury, and Steve Francis be in today's nba?

Shock Defeat · Post #1 » by **Shock Defeat** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 9:31 pm

I'd say Baron Davis would be the best, followed by Marbury, then Francis

Baron Davis would be 5-10 range IMO. Wall, Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving are clearly better, probably Lillard too. He's in the discussion with Lowry, IT, and Conley.

Marbury/Francis are close, Marbury would be in the 12-15 range and Francis in the 15-18 range. I don't think Francis game translates well to this NBA at all.

Post #2 » by **penbeast0** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 10:09 pm

Depends; Davis and Francis spammed a lot more 3's than Marbury and Francis went to the basket the best of the three though he wasn't the playmaker of the other two. Defensively, it's Davis, Francis, then Marbury the weakest.

Davis would be the best IF he could stay healthy, which he didn't. Don't know if more modern medicine would help.

If not, I'd take Stevie Franchise over Starbury. Francis's offensive repetoire he came into the NBA with, slashes to the basket and three pointers, is more modern than Marbury's drive and dish and pull up for midrange game and in the modern game he's probably stay with it and even expand on it instead of shooting less 3's. And, stars get more say in teammates so they maybe won't trade his support blanket away from him.

rebirthoftheM · Post #3 » by **rebirthoftheM** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 10:29 pm

Echoing penbeast, Prime Baron was an elite offensive player.. when healthy. It is unfortunate that his body betrayed him so many times through-out his career. If he was playing today, and was healthy, he'd feast with the advent modern spacing, and the weaker interior defenses. Davis was at his best with nellie style basketball which runs rampant today.

Prime Davis would defs be top 10 in today's league. Probably not top 5 given the crazy competition (Lebron/Curry/Westbrook/Durant/Harden) but he could fall anywhere between 6-10.

Francis over Marbury here. Marbury would really need to adjust his game. His 'dribble dribble kill the shot clock then pass' anti-team ball offense wouldn't cut it. He never developed a 3 point game at all, and showed no interests of it, and wasn't an elite slasher to make up for this.

Post #4 » by **Clyde Frazier** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 10:33 pm

Wow... francis fell off even more quickly than i remembered. By his 5th season, his 3PT shot totally went to **** (29.2% on 3.2 attempts per game), and he was basically washed by his 7th.

I'm not ignoring marbury's flaws as a player, but the one thing that doesn't get talked about enough is that he really spiraled downhill due to psychological problems. The way he turned his life around in China has always fascinated me. I don't think anyone would've bet on that the way things were going.

I don't know that their games change all that much. They more so foreshadowed the type of guards we see today -- high usage scoring PGs with the ability to distribute. Maybe more emphasis on 3s for marbury and francis, but they both took 3-4 per game back then. I see a lot of hornets baron davis in dennis smith JR, and i'd call that a good thing assuming he stays healthy.

Oh, and in order when healthy if they played today: Baron / Francis / Marbury

dhsilv2 · Post #5 » by **dhsilv2** » Mon Aug 7, 2017 10:52 pm

I think Francis could almost have been a lite version of Westbrook with less passing still. I think he'd have the best single season. Baron was really talented, the point guard friendly league would do wonders. I feel embarrassed but for the life of me I just can't remember how Marbury played as a wolves player. I just remember him in relation to KG. Its odd, I thought I'd watched those teams play a good bit, but I'm drawing a blank on how he scored. I'll not offer a view given his post wolves career shouldn't be used imo.

DidUSaySometing · Post #6 » by **DidUSaySometing** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:41 am

marbury would be a top 5 PG. he's a much better passer than kyrie, better defender too. francis would be in the 10-12 range

1. curry
2. cp3
3. westbrook
4. wall
5. marbury
6. lillard
7. kyrie
8. conley
9. davis

Fundamentals21 · Post #7 » by **Fundamentals21** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 8:06 am

Yeah echo with everyone's sentiments here.

Baron would have been out of the Top 5 but he would still be seen as huge X Factor type PG that can really play like a star in both RS and Playoffs. I was a definite fan. He was very good floor general and his athletic body was a def. advantage vs other PG's. As with players like this, injury issues bothered him. Derrick Rose suffered a similar fate in his era. Baron is the only one of the three that i do think can make a title run on a strong team in an appropriate season.

Francis had a short career. Solid gunner in my book.

Marbury I thought was a very good player at times and borderline all star (not in 2018, too stacked). He makes me curious. What would happen on a Marbury team in a good KG year with solid surrounding cast? I don't really know. He does seem to have it in him to make significant contribution to title teams, but hypothetical in any case. As it stands, he has an NBA legacy of being a headcase - a trait you don't want in a high usage rate player on offense.

Kabookalu · Post #8 » by **Kabookalu** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 2:12 pm

I'm a lot lower on Francis than most. During a post Jordan era with Iverson further promoting the one on one game, I thought Steve Francis was the biggest ballhog I've ever seen, no one comes close for me. And even amongst combo guard standards he couldn't run an offense. I tried watching Rockets games because Yao was such an intriguing player given his profile and background, but Francis made it so hard to watch with his constant dribbling thinking it was an And1 mixtape. Marbury was a hog too but not nearly as bad as Francis.

Davis is clearly the most talented of the three.

Brooklyn_34 · Post #9 » by **Brooklyn_34** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 4:06 pm

Kabookalu wrote:
Davis is clearly the most talented of the three.

Interesting....I would have picked Marbury. I think he was much more versatile on offense. Marbury had great handles and was VERY strong and could finish inside very well. He had a good pull up jumper and a nice clean looking shot. He attacked the paint pretty consistently. He did have a good outside shot. His offensive game looked more polished than the others.

When he was on the Nets, I watched him a lot. He was not nearly the ball-hog people thought he was...he was actually a pretty good passer. He was consistently averaging around 8 assists a game. I think people didn't like him because they wanted him as more of a traditional point guard...if he was 6'6, his game would have been perceived a lot differently. His defense, however, could have improved. I think that's what kept him back from being a consistent all-star.

Never liked Davis....I felt he thought he was better than he actually was. His shot selection at times was pretty bad. His FG% was very low. I felt he was an inferior scorer to Marbury, but a better defender. Not to mention the injuries. But yes, the few times he had to shine (playoffs), he had his moments in a way Francis and Marbury didn't.

I didn't really watch Francis a lot, but he appeared to be a little more of well rounded as a player than either Marbury or Davis. But again, take it with a grain of salt because I really didn't pay attention to him much.

If I were to choose one of the three for the playoffs, it's clearly Davis.
Francis barely sniffed the playoffs and Marbury did make it more, but he wasn't that great.
Davis on the other had some series where he BROUGHT IT.

Regular season, I'd probably take Marbury out of the three.

Brooklyn_34 · Post #10 » by **Brooklyn_34** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 4:18 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Wow... francis fell off even more quickly than i remembered. By his 5th season, his 3PT shot totally went to **** (29.2% on 3.2 attempts per game), and he was basically washed by his 7th.

I'm not ignoring marbury's flaws as a player, but the one thing that doesn't get talked about enough is that he really spiraled downhill due to psychological problems. The way he turned his life around in China has always fascinated me. I don't think anyone would've bet on that the way things were going.

I don't know that their games change all that much. They more so foreshadowed the type of guards we see today -- high usage scoring PGs with the ability to distribute. Maybe more emphasis on 3s for marbury and francis, but they both took 3-4 per game back then. I see a lot of hornets baron davis in dennis smith JR, and i'd call that a good thing assuming he stays healthy.

Oh, and in order when healthy if they played today: Baron / Francis / Marbury

Yeah...he certainly had his problems. I hear starbury is going to make a comeback?

I think Marbury's ability to drive and finish around the rim would make him valuable. He was almost like a quarterback---and he could get his shot off in very difficult positions down low. He had that nice pullup jumper too.

Baron was too inefficient...I kind of saw him as the Antoine Walker of PGs. Players like that drive me nuts. again, playoffs, I'd take him over the others. I don't think he took the regular season too seriously.

From what I remember Francis was a decent three point shooter early on anyway. I think it fell off. From what i remember (I could be wrong), marbury wasn't a bad 3pt shooter, but he wasn't great either. I remember it being consistent.

Davis on the other hand chucked and chucked and I don't think he was any better than Marbury and Francis.

I'm curious--why would you take Francis over Marbury?

Kabookalu · Post #11 » by **Kabookalu** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 4:26 pm

Brooklyn_34 wrote:Interesting....I would have picked Marbury. I think he was much more versatile on offense. Marbury had great handles and was VERY strong and could finish inside very well. He had a good pull up jumper and a nice clean looking shot. He attacked the paint pretty consistently. He did have a good outside shot. His offensive game looked more polished than the others.

When he was on the Nets, I watched him a lot. He was not nearly the ball-hog people thought he was...he was actually a pretty good passer. He was consistently averaging around 8 assists a game. I think people didn't like him because they wanted him as more of a traditional point guard...if he was 6'6, his game would have been perceived a lot differently. His defense, however, could have improved. I think that's what kept him back from being a consistent all-star.

Back in the day here there used to be a lot of comparisons between Marbury and Davis with people debating back and forth who was more talented. I thought it was pretty even for the most part, but then after Davis went to the Warriors where he somewhat played up to his potential I thought it was clear how talented he was. Davis really had it all, size, strength, court vision, handles, skill, the only thing he didn't have was a shot, which he loved to spam. With Marbury he played a lot more to his strengths with his drive and kick game. I believe Marbury is in a small club of players who averaged 20ppg/8apg for like 4 seasons straight, I remember Knicks fans hyping it up when they first got him.

I don't know who I'd compare Marbury to in the modern era, maybe Damien Lillard, but a lot more mid range oriented and a better playmaker. That would be a really good player in today's era.

If we're talking about how they actually played and not by what could have been, Marbury is better (looking at Davis' stats his efficiency is a lot worse than I expected it to be). Though Davis' 2007 playoff run was one of the best string of games I've ever seen from a point guard, literally looked like a mini LeBron with his ability to facilitate, rebound and go coast to coast, score from all over the court (even shoot!), defend multiple positions, and dominate with his size and strength.

Brooklyn_34 · Post #12 » by **Brooklyn_34** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 4:35 pm

Kabookalu wrote:Back in the day here there used to be a lot of comparisons between Marbury and Davis with people debating back and forth who was more talented. I thought it was pretty even for the most part, but then after Davis went to the Warriors where he somewhat played up to his potential I thought it was clear how talented he was. Davis really had it all, size, strength, court vision, handles, skill, the only thing he didn't have was a shot, which he loved to spam. With Marbury he played a lot more to his strengths with his drive and kick game. I believe Marbury is in a small club of players who averaged 20ppg/8apg for like 4 seasons straight, I remember Knicks fans hyping it up when they first got him.

I don't know who I'd compare Marbury to in the modern era, maybe Damien Lillard, but a lot more mid range oriented and a better playmaker. That would be a really good player in today's era.

If we're talking about how they actually played and not by what could have been, Marbury is better (looking at Davis' stats his efficiency is a lot worse than I expected it to be). Though Davis' 2007 playoff run was one of the best string of games I've ever seen from a point guard, literally looked like a mini LeBron with his ability to facilitate, rebound and go coast to coast, score from all over the court (even shoot!), defend multiple positions, and dominate with his size and strength.

Right.

Great comparison...mini Lebron was what he looked like during that run. But he played like a mini-Antoine Walker during the regular season.

That's why I picked Marbury over him (regular season). Davis gets the nod for the playoffs, but a huge margin.