As a prospect how many players would you draft ahead of 1984 Jordan?

D.Brasco · Post #1 » by **D.Brasco** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:47 pm

Assuming you knew as much about Jordan as was known at the time of his draft how many draft prospects (if any) do you think you'd have picked ahead of him from NBA history?

So looking at historical players purely from their draft stock and not subsequent career.

RoyceDa59 · Post #2 » by **RoyceDa59** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 6:58 pm

No one.

bledredwine · Post #3 » by **bledredwine** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 7:07 pm

Before 2000's rule changes? All dominant bigs - Kareem Hakeem Wilt.... after rules changes? Lebron and that's it. Only judging pre-career. If I knew MJ would be MJ, obviously I'd take him 1 no frickin competition.

HeartBreakKid · Post #4 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 8:07 pm

D.Brasco wrote:Assuming you knew as much about Jordan as was known at the time of his draft how many draft prospects (if any) do you think you'd have picked ahead of him from NBA history?

So looking at historical players purely from their draft stock and not subsequent career.

In terms of perimeter players I would say Oscar Robertson and Magic Johnson for sure. Probably Lebron James, but I could see myself going against the grain as I think Jordan was pretty damn impressive coming out of college.

Plenty of bigs would go over Jordan. Walton, Abdul-Jabar, Chamberlain, Olajuwon, Ewing, Duncan, Oden, O'Neal and probably Russell.

70sFan · Post #5 » by **70sFan** » Tue Aug 8, 2017 8:23 pm

Plenty of bigs.

In terms of perimeter players - definitely Oscar, maybe Magic. Larry Bird too though he's more of a 4 than perimeter player.

KobesScarf · Post #6 » by **KobesScarf** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 6:55 am

A ton. Draft stock wise MJ's might not even be top 25

Ron Swanson · Post #7 » by **Ron Swanson** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 2:17 pm

Yeah, weird quantifier to put in there. Considering we know he only went #3 in his own draft class, there's a laundry list of bigs that you'd take before him if you didn't know what he'd become, especially if you're drafting him any year prior to hand-checking/illegal defense rule changes that allowed the perimeter player offense explosion.

Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Magic, Oden, Anthony Davis, Towns, Lebron, just to name a few.

ItsThatEasy · Post #8 » by **ItsThatEasy** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 3:15 pm

Ehh, not much of a discussion tbh.

There's been plenty of prospects better than Jordan.

Dr Positivity · Post #9 » by **Dr Positivity** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 5:24 pm

Pretty long list. Alcindor, Walton, Russell, Ewing, Sampson, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Hayes, Lanier, Webber, Oden, Davis (not counting Wilt) for bigs when considering the bias against guards vs centers at the time. For perimeter prospects Oscar, Magic, Lebron, and then possibly Durant, Glenn Robinson, David Thompson, Tomjanovich, Maravich

KobesScarf · Post #10 » by **KobesScarf** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 10:24 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Pretty long list. Alcindor, Walton, Russell, Ewing, Sampson, Hakeem, Shaq, Duncan, Hayes, Lanier, Webber, Oden, Davis (not counting Wilt) for bigs when considering the bias against guards vs centers at the time. For perimeter prospects Oscar, Magic, Lebron, and then possibly Durant, Glenn Robinson, David Thompson, Tomjanovich, Maravich

take out Glenn Robinson, Rudy T and Durant

add:
Grant Hill
Kent Benson
Spencer Haywood
Jerry Lucas
Dan Issel
Allen Iverson
Derrick Coleman

dhsilv2 · Post #11 » by **dhsilv2** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 10:38 pm

bledredwine wrote:Before 2000's rule changes? All dominant bigs - Kareem Hakeem Wilt.... after rules changes? Lebron and that's it. Only judging pre-career. If I knew MJ would be MJ, obviously I'd take him 1 no frickin competition.

This is crazy, NOBODY was talking MJ over Hakeem!

dhsilv2 · Post #12 » by **dhsilv2** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 10:40 pm

I can say with 100% certainty I'd have NEVER drafted Oden top 5! I couldn't believe KD was behind him. The two didn't seem remotely close to me.

But yeah, MJ would be pretty far down my list based on what I know. Anyone even have combine numbers for him?

rebirthoftheM · Post #13 » by **rebirthoftheM** » Wed Aug 9, 2017 10:54 pm

If I can get a proper coach from day 1, I'd possibly take Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem. Shaq would be there, but his durability issues concern me. That is about it. I would not take any non-big over MJ.

KobesScarf · Post #14 » by **KobesScarf** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:25 am

dhsilv2 wrote:
bledredwine wrote:Before 2000's rule changes? All dominant bigs - Kareem Hakeem Wilt.... after rules changes? Lebron and that's it. Only judging pre-career. If I knew MJ would be MJ, obviously I'd take him 1 no frickin competition.

This is crazy, NOBODY was talking MJ over Hakeem!

And if Ewing had entered the draft he would of easily went over Hakeem

dhsilv2 · Post #15 » by **dhsilv2** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 12:29 am

KobesScarf wrote:
dhsilv2 wrote:
bledredwine wrote:Before 2000's rule changes? All dominant bigs - Kareem Hakeem Wilt.... after rules changes? Lebron and that's it. Only judging pre-career. If I knew MJ would be MJ, obviously I'd take him 1 no frickin competition.

This is crazy, NOBODY was talking MJ over Hakeem!

And if Ewing had entered the draft he would of easily went over Hakeem

Ewing was super hyped. Thus the conclusion that MJ would likely not be a top tier draft prospect.

ItsThatEasy · Post #16 » by **ItsThatEasy** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:20 am

rebirthoftheM wrote:If I can get a proper coach from day 1, I'd possibly take Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem. Shaq would be there, but his durability issues concern me. That is about it. I would not take any non-big over MJ.

It sounds like you're speaking with hindsight in mind.

As a prospect in 1984, Michael Jordan was nowhere the prospect LeBron or even Grant Hill was in 2003.

Those guys were thought to be guaranteed hall of famers. Jordan in 1984 was a great SG with some "holes" in his game. Obviously he ended up being the GOAT, but not many people saw that coming.

rebirthoftheM · Post #17 » by **rebirthoftheM** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:54 am

ItsThatEasy wrote:
rebirthoftheM wrote:If I can get a proper coach from day 1, I'd possibly take Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem. Shaq would be there, but his durability issues concern me. That is about it. I would not take any non-big over MJ.

It sounds like you're speaking with hindsight in mind.

As a prospect in 1984, Michael Jordan was nowhere the prospect LeBron or even Grant Hill was in 2003.

Those guys were thought to be guaranteed hall of famers. Jordan in 1984 was a great SG with some "holes" in his game. Obviously he ended up being the GOAT, but not many people saw that coming.

You're right in the sense only that im assuming a 2 guard could be the centre of a highly successful team. Perhaps not knowing that fact, I might chose some other guys over him. This is again assuming the draft is in the 1980s.

But MJ as a prospect? His progression through college, his supreme skills at a position not known for combo guard abilities (even with the holes), his work ethic and supreme athleticism would interest me a lot. The fact that he came from an elite program would intrigue me a lot also.

So yeah, MJ the actual prospect wouldnt hold me back. It is era considerations. If Im drafting in 93 after seeing Clyde Drexler prove a 2 guard could win, perhaps my preference for bigs would wane.

Re MJ v Lebron. Watching college/draft clips from MJ and Lebron makes me think Id select MJ. Again, it might be dependant on era, but MJ seemed more reserved and focused to me. A guy that could go to work immediately. This would become more apparent when you put him in the gym and his psycho never lose mentality surfaces. Intangibles and general mentality would matter a lot to me.

HeartBreakKid · Post #18 » by **HeartBreakKid** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:12 am

ItsThatEasy wrote:
rebirthoftheM wrote:If I can get a proper coach from day 1, I'd possibly take Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem. Shaq would be there, but his durability issues concern me. That is about it. I would not take any non-big over MJ.

It sounds like you're speaking with hindsight in mind.

As a prospect in 1984, Michael Jordan was nowhere the prospect LeBron or even Grant Hill was in 2003.

Those guys were thought to be guaranteed hall of famers. Jordan in 1984 was a great SG with some "holes" in his game. Obviously he ended up being the GOAT, but not many people saw that coming.

Um, that's a huge exaggeration in the other direction.

Jordan WAS a guarantee to be a hall of famer, he was a superstar prospect. He was by FAR the 2nd highest rated prospect of his draft, and he was in a stack draft.

The only reason why he did not go #1 is because of Hakeem Olajuwon, who was also a hall of fame caliber prospect. The Blazers did not pick BPA. Saying Jordan is not a top of the line prospect is like arguing Kevin Durant was not a top of the line prospect.

D.Brasco · Post #19 » by **D.Brasco** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:13 am

ItsThatEasy wrote:
rebirthoftheM wrote:If I can get a proper coach from day 1, I'd possibly take Kareem/Wilt/Hakeem. Shaq would be there, but his durability issues concern me. That is about it. I would not take any non-big over MJ.

It sounds like you're speaking with hindsight in mind.

As a prospect in 1984, Michael Jordan was nowhere the prospect LeBron or even Grant Hill was in 2003.

Those guys were thought to be guaranteed hall of famers. Jordan in 1984 was a great SG with some "holes" in his game. Obviously he ended up being the GOAT, but not many people saw that coming.

What holes was MJ thought to have at that time?

It seems he would have gone 2nd overall if not for Portland already having Drexler at SG.

JordansBulls · Post #20 » by **JordansBulls** » Thu Aug 10, 2017 3:18 am

If we are talking at that time then at least 10 guys. If hindsight no one obviously for me.