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CodeBreaker wrote:

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Timmaytime wrote:
Yeah, very few instances that I can think of where a ATG player won without another star.

2011 for sure.

1994 for sure, and maybe 1995, depending on how you feel about Drexler at that point.

1975, which makes you think a little bit about Rick Barry, considering his help was Butch Beard, Clifford Ray and rookie Jamaal Wilkes.

I would also argue 1981 (Bird, but the next best players were Parish and past-prime Tiny Archibald), and 2016.

Drexler was still very good in 95, especially in the finals:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-finals-rockets-vs-magic.html

Around 2013 Wade-good level

dhsilv2 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:
Disagree with Harden, he imo was why the 2012 team made the finals. He's a great piece. Westbrook I agree with however.

You say this realizing Westbrook has been a better postseason performed I'd hope. With a lead in BPM, OBPM, assist rate, rebound rate, TO rate, scoring volume, and a lesser drop in efficiency while having more team success and showing up more often. It's building around nearly the same guy.

You know...sometimes I just want to see a guy use his brain. I would never want westbrook in the playoffs to make a decision over harden. Call me crazy, biased, or irrational. Westbrook is a better basketball player until the right play really matters imo. It's hard to explain, but I'm not the first to say this. I doubt i'm the last.

bondom34 wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:You say this realizing Westbrook has been a better postseason performed I'd hope. With a lead in BPM, OBPM, assist rate, rebound rate, TO rate, scoring volume, and a lesser drop in efficiency while having more team success and showing up more often. It's building around nearly the same guy.

You know...sometimes I just want to see a guy use his brain. I would never want westbrook in the playoffs to make a decision over harden. Call me crazy, biased, or irrational. Westbrook is a better basketball player until the right play really matters imo. It's hard to explain, but I'm not the first to say this. I doubt i'm the last.

And yet we've seen him come up huge late game so many times (see vs. LAC game 5), and Harden come up small so many times (see game 6 Spurs). Yes, I'd call that either biased or irrational, because there's zero backing for the statement. I'd never want Harden in the playoffs over Westbrook. Because he's worse.

mdonnelly1989 wrote:

RCM88x wrote:No great player is able to win titles without other great players. Simple as that really.

But it's interesting though because take someone for instance like Charles Barkley who in a vacuum is a lock top 5 power forward of all time and yet, I find that it would be hard to build a championship around him because of his style of play.

dhsilv2 wrote:

bondom34 wrote:

dhsilv2 wrote:
You know...sometimes I just want to see a guy use his brain. I would never want westbrook in the playoffs to make a decision over harden. Call me crazy, biased, or irrational. Westbrook is a better basketball player until the right play really matters imo. It's hard to explain, but I'm not the first to say this. I doubt i'm the last.

And yet we've seen him come up huge late game so many times (see vs. LAC game 5), and Harden come up small so many times (see game 6 Spurs). Yes, I'd call that either biased or irrational, because there's zero backing for the statement. I'd never want Harden in the playoffs over Westbrook. Because he's worse.

That sampling is so meaningless. Dismissing me if you want, but that isn't even remotely a case here. The issue isn't BETTER it is smarter.

Clyde Frazier wrote:

Timmaytime wrote:

RCM88x wrote:No great player is able to win titles without other great players. Simple as that really.

Yeah, very few instances that I can think of where a ATG player won without another star.

2011 for sure.

1994 for sure, and maybe 1995, depending on how you feel about Drexler at that point.

1975, which makes you think a little bit about Rick Barry, considering his help was Butch Beard, Clifford Ray and rookie Jamaal Wilkes.

I would also argue 1981 (Bird, but the next best players were Parish and past-prime Tiny Archibald), and 2016.

Drexler was still very good in 95, especially in the finals:

https://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/1995-nba-finals-rockets-vs-magic.html