2012 Wade vs 2017 Giannis Antetokounmpo

[mischievous]

Better player?

[Jiminy Glick]

Giannis, better defense, rebounding, and scoring efficiency.

[Wolfy1983]

Giannis in the regular season. Wade in the playoffs.

[JordansBulls]

Wade for sure.

[ccameron]

Giannis was great last year, but I think 2012 Wade is vastly underrated. For the first 2/3 of the season, he was basically identical to Lebron, and that is no exaggeration. They were clear cut the two best players in the league. Towards the end of the season Wade's knee injury slowed him down. But even injured 2012 Wade in the playoffs was able to summon huge performances.

Also, this is perhaps a minor point, but Wade's stats underrate him that year. When Wade was doing most of his damage in the first 2/3 of the season, the Heat were blowing teams out so badly he and Lebron would sit out the entire 4th quarter (Lebron even complained how it was happening so often that it was hurting his stats). Wade and Lebron would get their 20 points almost always in the first 3 quarters. When Wade slowed down at the end they weren't blowing teams out anymore, and Lebron took on a greater role and got a chance to up his stats more than Wade did. Also the last game Wade played that season he played 1 minute because he jammed his finger and was taken out of the game immediately. With the shortened season, that one game literally dropped his averages almost a full point or half a point across the board because that game was counted as him having played.

I wouldn't consider 2012 part of Wade's prime because of the injury that slowed him down at the end, which was the beginning of his decline. But for a good chunk of it he was definitely playing at prime Wade level. Even taking the season as a whole, this is definitely Wade.

[SHAQ32]

I'm assuming OP didn't catch the 2017 playoffs

Voted for Wade btw

[Magic Giannison]

Giannis put better stats in both playoffs and regular season than wade did and beats him in almost all advanced stats and was more efficient.

All that while having vastly inferior supporting cast to help him.

Especially on defense, Giannis was the sole reason why we weren't dead last and im saying that know how good of defender wade is.

If it was Wade in earlier years then absolutely we could have a better discussion, not the 2012 one.

[eminence]

Give me Wade here, though probably the last season from him I'd put over Giannis.

[ccameron]

Giannis put better stats in both playoffs and regular season than wade did and beats him in almost all advanced stats and was more efficient.

All that while having vastly inferior supporting cast to help him.

A vastly inferior supporting cast can boost your stats, fyi. Pretty sure Giannis' stats take a hit playing next to Lebron and Bosh.

If it was Wade in earlier years then absolutely we could have a better discussion, not the 2012 one.

There isn't any discussion at all if you are talking about Wade in the earlier years.

[Sign5]

2012 Wade comfortably. I understand 2011 was the last year of his prime but because of that notion 2012 Wade gets vastly underrated.

[Magic Giannison]

Giannis put better stats in both playoffs and regular season than wade did and beats him in almost all advanced stats and was more efficient.

All that while having vastly inferior supporting cast to help him.

A vastly inferior supporting cast can boost your stats, fyi. Pretty sure Giannis' stats take a hit playing next to Lebron and Bosh.

If it was Wade in earlier years then absolutely we could have a better discussion, not the 2012 one.

There isn't any discussion at all if you are talking about Wade in the earlier years.

Not really, especially in Giannis case it hurt his assists and didn't allow him to open the game further as he was double and triple teamed most of times.
Giannis had 2 less FGA and lower usage than Wade that year so the notion of stat padding is nonsense. Giannis literally is better than 2012 wad ein almost everything.

[Clyde Frazier]

Eh, even if you pick wade it's kinda laughable to call this not close.

[ccameron]

Giannis put better stats in both playoffs and regular season than wade did and beats him in almost all advanced stats and was more efficient.

All that while having vastly inferior supporting cast to help him.

A vastly inferior supporting cast can boost your stats, fyi. Pretty sure Giannis' stats take a hit playing next to Lebron and Bosh.

If it was Wade in earlier years then absolutely we could have a better discussion, not the 2012 one.

There isn't any discussion at all if you are talking about Wade in the earlier years.

Not really, especially in Giannis case it hurt his assists and didn't allow him to open the game further as he was double and triple teamed most of times.
Giannis had 2 less FGA and lower usage than Wade that year so the notion of stat padding is nonsense. Giannis literally is better than 2012 wad ein almost everything.

It's not stat padding, it's just what happens when you play alongside other talented players. Everything you said about Giannis was true about Wade, Lebron, and Bosh before playing with each other. Nevertheless:

Lebron 2010: 29.7/8.6/7.3
Wade 2010: 26.6/6.5/4.8
Bosh 2010: 24.0/2.4/10.8
vs.
Lebron 2011: 26.7/7.0/7.5
Wade 2011: 25.5/4.6/6.4
Bosh 2011: 18.7/1.9/8.3

The same thing happened with Westbrook when Durant left. Yeah he's the main focus of the defense now and he has less teammates that can finish his shots, nevertheless, his stats went way up after Durant left. Stats don't say everything, you have to know the context, and my point is, even though Giannis might have some better stats, that doesn't tell the whole story. For instance, Giannis has slightly more points per game (for the reasons I stated above), but Wade was a more capable scorer. I don't know what basis you have to say Giannis' stats would have been the same in Wade's position. I find that extremely unlikely.

[Magic Giannison]

A vastly inferior supporting cast can boost your stats, fyi. Pretty sure Giannis' stats take a hit playing next to Lebron and Bosh.



There isn't any discussion at all if you are talking about Wade in the earlier years.

Not really, especially in Giannis case it hurt his assists and didn't allow him to open the game further as he was double and triple teamed most of times.
Giannis had 2 less FGA and lower usage than Wade that year so the notion of stat padding is nonsense. Giannis literally is better than 2012 wad ein almost everything.

It's not stat padding, it's just what happens when you play alongside other talented players. Everything you said about Giannis was true about Wade, Lebron, and Bosh before playing with each other. Nevertheless:

Lebron 2010: 29.7/8.6/7.3
Wade 2010: 26.6/6.5/4.8
Bosh 2010: 24.0/2.4/10.8
vs.
Lebron 2011: 26.7/7.0/7.5
Wade 2011: 25.5/4.6/6.4
Bosh 2011: 18.7/1.9/8.3

The same thing happened with Westbrook when Durant left. Yeah he's the main focus of the defense now and he has less teammates that can finish his shots, nevertheless, his stats went way up after Durant left. Stats don't say everything, you have to know the context, and my point is, even though Giannis might have some better stats, that doesn't tell the whole story. For instance, Giannis has slightly more points per game (for the reasons I stated above), but Wade was a more capable scorer. I don't know what basis you have to say Giannis' stats would have been the same in Wade's position. I find that extremely unlikely.

Because like ive said, having better support opens up the game a lot.You bring Westbrook butt Westbrook increased his FGA and usage a lot hence why his numbers exploded.
Westbrook had 6 more FGA and 10 % more usage than last year, thats insane.
The biggest disadvantage for Giannis is his perimeter shooting hence why he is much easier to guard, thats why you saw Caroll,Tucker and Powell giving him 5 feet distance in playoffs, you wouldn't do that to Westbrook because he is much better 3 point shooter than Giannis.
Im using Westbrook because he is in the similar position,good player with not so good or bad supporting cast.The difference in usage,FGA and shooting flexibility is way above in favor of Westbrook.

As for Wade, imagine opponents defense trying to defend Lebron and Bosh you can understand how that opens the game for Wade.Its not like wade usage and FGA got hurt because of Lebon and Bosh.Even if you take advanced stats Giannis was better scorer than Wade on less FGA and usage.Giannis was simply more efficient scorer,better rebounder, better passer and better defender.

if we wouldve been talking about previous year sure, wade is better especially in his prime but 2012 Wade is simply not.

[ccameron]

Not really, especially in Giannis case it hurt his assists and didn't allow him to open the game further as he was double and triple teamed most of times.
Giannis had 2 less FGA and lower usage than Wade that year so the notion of stat padding is nonsense. Giannis literally is better than 2012 wad ein almost everything.

It's not stat padding, it's just what happens when you play alongside other talented players. Everything you said about Giannis was true about Wade, Lebron, and Bosh before playing with each other. Nevertheless:

Lebron 2010: 29.7/8.6/7.3
Wade 2010: 26.6/6.5/4.8
Bosh 2010: 24.0/2.4/10.8
vs.
Lebron 2011: 26.7/7.0/7.5
Wade 2011: 25.5/4.6/6.4
Bosh 2011: 18.7/1.9/8.3

The same thing happened with Westbrook when Durant left. Yeah he's the main focus of the defense now and he has less teammates that can finish his shots, nevertheless, his stats went way up after Durant left. Stats don't say everything, you have to know the context, and my point is, even though Giannis might have some better stats, that doesn't tell the whole story. For instance, Giannis has slightly more points per game (for the reasons I stated above), but Wade was a more capable scorer. I don't know what basis you have to say Giannis' stats would have been the same in Wade's position. I find that extremely unlikely.

Because like ive said, having better support opens up the game a lot.You bring Westbrook butt Westbrook increased his FGA and usage a lot hence why his numbers exploded.
Westbrook had 6 more FGA and 10 % more usage than last year, thats insane.
The biggest disadvantage for Giannis is his perimeter shooting hence why he is much easier to guard, thats why you saw Caroll,Tucker and Powell giving him 5 feet distance in playoffs, you wouldn't do that to Westbrook because he is much better 3 point shooter than Giannis.
Im using Westbrook because he is in the similar position,good player with not so good or bad supporting cast.The difference in usage,FGA and shooting flexibility is way above in favor of Westbrook.

As for Wade, imagine opponents defense trying to defend Lebron and Bosh you can understand how that opens the game for Wade.Its not like wade usage and FGA got hurt because of Lebon and Bosh.Even if you take advanced stats Giannis was better scorer than Wade on less FGA and usage.Giannis was simply more efficient scorer,better rebounder, better passer and better defender.

if we wouldve been talking about previous year sure, wade is better especially in his prime but 2012 Wade is simply not.

If your point is to say that Lebron's impact on Wade's stats was positive and therefore the context is irrelevant, I disagree. It is generally known that even if there is marginally increased efficiency for Wade in playing next to Lebron, his stats overall take a big hit and are negatively affected overall. Wade's Usage and FGA did in fact decrease playing with lebron (not sure how you claim otherwise), but it's not just that, it's that Lebron specifically occupies the exact same space and function on the court, and his skills overlapped so much that Wade had to learn how to play the game completely differently in order to make room for Lebron. The game only opens up for Wade if he reinvents the way he plays, which is what he was able to do with some success. I do not need to imagine defenses trying to defend Lebron and Bosh and Wade because I saw it all the time, and while they were talented enough to make it work, the fit was less than ideal. Wade was forced to do most of the adapting. That's why you can't just look at the fact that Giannis has slightly more ppg or slightly more assists and conclude in a vacuum that he is a better scorer or passer. Both of those things in my opinion are not true.

I'm not saying this is easily Wade, I think their seasons overall are comparable, but it's a little deceptive because of the difference the injury made at the end. Certainly the first half of the season Wade was playing on a different level. You might argue Giannis was just as good as Wade in the later part of the season, but overall I still give this to Wade.

[HeartBreakKid]

2012 was still prime Wade, his numbers merely dipped because he let LBJ be the #1 option.

I'd have to side with Wade here.