Draymond Green vs Hakeem Olajuwon

[Cp3fan12]

Defense only? Some guys think this is a legit debate. Personally i think its a joke comparison.

[eminence]

I'd take Dream, but wouldn't go so far as to say it's a joke comparison. Kind of like an MJ vs Kobe offensive comparison I think almost all reference frames and data leads to MJ>Kobe (or Hakeem>Dray in this case), but calling it a joke comparison is beyond insulting to another great player.

[SlowPaced]

Hakeem and it's not a legit debate at all.

[clyde21]

Defense only? Some guys think this is a legit debate. Personally i think its a joke comparison.

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert. I gave you my reasons which you ignored and ran out to create a ridiculous thread like this with a false premise.

Maybe instead of creating this thread you could've actually answered my post in the other one?

[SlowPaced]

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert.

It's not ridiculous though. Hakeem is easily a better defender than Draymond and Gobert.

He has a massive rim protection and rebounding edge on Draymond, and a massive pick 'n' roll defense and mobility edge on Gobert.

[Laimbeer]

Defense only? Some guys think this is a legit debate. Personally i think its a joke comparison.

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert. I gave you my reasons which you ignored and ran out to create a ridiculous thread like this with a false premise.

Isn't that saying it's a legit debate?

[clyde21]

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert.

It's not ridiculous though. Hakeem is easily a better defender than Draymond and Gobert.

He has a massive rim protection and rebounding edge on Draymond, and a massive pick 'n' roll defense and mobility edge on Gobert.

And Draymond has a massive edge on on him in terms of being able to defend 1-5 and all the way out to 30 feet, being able to switch and with help defense. Why are you looking at it only in the lens of rim protection? There's a lot more to defense than that.

[clyde21]

Defense only? Some guys think this is a legit debate. Personally i think its a joke comparison.

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert. I gave you my reasons which you ignored and ran out to create a ridiculous thread like this with a false premise.

Isn't that saying it's a legit debate?

Semantics either way, and I'm still waiting for him to respond to me in the other thread.

[SlowPaced]

And Draymond has a massive edge on on him in terms of being able to defend 1-5 and all the way out to 30 feet, being able to switch and with help defense. What makes rim protection more valuable than all of those?

First off, Draymond cannot defend PGs and SGs save from few and far between possessions. He can guard 3 through 5. Secondly, he doesn't really have an edge on help defense, it's just that modern defenses utilize fast switching and trapping based schemes much more often. Hakeem didn't exactly lack mobility, the guy moved like a guard on offense.

For someone who's very enamored with Steph's gravity on offense, you should know the value of the gravity elite rim protection brings to a defense.

[clyde21]

And yes, it's completely ridiculous to say Hakeem is 'easily' better than one of the best defensive players of this generation. Utter nonsense, and screams of romanticizing older players just because "people did it better back in the day" crap narrative.

[clyde21]

And Draymond has a massive edge on on him in terms of being able to defend 1-5 and all the way out to 30 feet, being able to switch and with help defense. What makes rim protection more valuable than all of those?

First off, Draymond cannot defend PGs and SGs save from few and far between possessions. He can guard 3 through 5. Secondly, he doesn't really have an edge on help defense, it's just that modern defenses utilize fast switching and trapping based schemes much more often.

For someone who's very enamored with Steph's gravity on offense, you should know the value of the gravity elite rim protection brings to a defense.

Draymond can defend PGs, SGs, SF, PFs, Centers. He can literally defend 1-5. He can literally defend from 3 feet out to 30 feet. He's also probably the best help defender in the entire league because of his BBIQ and defensive prowess on the switches. So yes, defense isn't just about protecting the rim (maybe that's way it was in the 90s).

No one is disputing Hakeem is a better rim defender...but Dray is probably better at everything else...and makes a defensive impact on more ways than Hakeem did if you're accounting offenses in this era.

[SlowPaced]

Draymond can defend PGs, SGs, SF, PFs, Centers. He can literally defend 1-5. He can literally defend from 3 feet out to 30 feet. He's also probably the best help defender in the entire league because of his BBIQ and defensive prowess on the switches. So yes, defense isn't just about protecting the rim (maybe that's way it was in the 90s).

No one is disputing Hakeem is a better rim defender...but Dray is probably better at everything else...and makes a defensive impact on more ways than Hakeem did if you're accounting offenses in this era.

You just repeated the things that you said previously. Color me convinced, can't argue with that.

[AdagioPace]

I value rim protection more than any other defensive "assignment" and I don't consider Draymond top 10 all time in this department. Versatility doesn't impress me enough. Gimme Hakeem (and drob, and duncan, and mutombo,and Gobert too!! etc...)

[Cp3fan12]

Defense only? Some guys think this is a legit debate. Personally i think its a joke comparison.

You're so petty. All I was saying in the other thread was that it's ridiculous to claim that Hakeem is "easily better defender" than Dray/Gobert. I gave you my reasons which you ignored and ran out to create a ridiculous thread like this with a false premise.

Maybe instead of creating this thread you could've actually answered my post in the other one?

I did respond and more than once so don't be dishonest.

[Cp3fan12]

Draymond can defend PGs, SGs, SF, PFs, Centers. He can literally defend 1-5. He can literally defend from 3 feet out to 30 feet. He's also probably the best help defender in the entire league because of his BBIQ and defensive prowess on the switches. So yes, defense isn't just about protecting the rim (maybe that's way it was in the 90s).

No one is disputing Hakeem is a better rim defender...but Dray is probably better at everything else...and makes a defensive impact on more ways than Hakeem did if you're accounting offenses in this era.

You just repeated the things that you said previously. Color me convinced, can't argue with that.

That's all he ever does is regurgitates the same trash even after it's been proven wrong. I guess he thinks the more you repeat something the more true it becomes lol.

Interesting that he claims to be an expert on what elite defense entails considering he's been watching Nba for what 3-4 years now.

Lol

[Triples333]

And yes, it's completely ridiculous to say Hakeem is 'easily' better than one of the best defensive players of this generation. Utter nonsense, and screams of romanticizing older players just because "people did it better back in the day" crap narrative.

I wouldn't go that far. We're comparing essentially 3 seasons of truly elite defense from Draymond to more than a decades worth of supreme dominance from Dream (stats wise Draymond's best season would not rate in Dream's top 5) on that end; dominance that had/has him soundly regarded as one of the top defenders in NBA history. You might be underrating Hakeem's versatility as well. He was not some plodding rim protector who did not stave away from the block, he was dynamic in his own right and had lighting quick hands + was extremely smart in understanding where a player was moving. That combined with his upper echelon height/length made for a player who was regularly racking up 2 steals and 3.5+ blocks a night.

Draymond's D (down to his rim protection... granted against today's offensive bigs) is arguably better suited for this particular era (that's the argument I would stick to personally), but even then that is probably a stretch. Dream would be comparable to a more fleet of foot Gobert with far better hands/instincts. It's a case where while Draymond is SUCH an intelligent/disruptive defensive force that it's unwise for people to just brush him off in the debate without thinking it through, it is still clearly open/shut advantage Dream.

[clyde21]

Draymond can defend PGs, SGs, SF, PFs, Centers. He can literally defend 1-5. He can literally defend from 3 feet out to 30 feet. He's also probably the best help defender in the entire league because of his BBIQ and defensive prowess on the switches. So yes, defense isn't just about protecting the rim (maybe that's way it was in the 90s).

No one is disputing Hakeem is a better rim defender...but Dray is probably better at everything else...and makes a defensive impact on more ways than Hakeem did if you're accounting offenses in this era.

You just repeated the things that you said previously. Color me convinced, can't argue with that.

I repeated what I said because you didn't address it. What makes Hakeem's rim protection more valuable than Draymond's ability to guard 1-5? Or to able to guard 3ft-30ft?

[clyde21]

We're comparing essentially 3 seasons of truly elite defense from Draymond to more than a decades worth of supreme dominance from Dream

We're not comparing them or ranking them based on their careers, though. We're comparing their defensive peaks.

[bledredwine]

Hakeem and it's not a legit debate at all.

This. It IS a joke comparison. "Draymond or the greatest paint defender of all time?"

[SlowPaced]

Draymond can defend PGs, SGs, SF, PFs, Centers. He can literally defend 1-5. He can literally defend from 3 feet out to 30 feet. He's also probably the best help defender in the entire league because of his BBIQ and defensive prowess on the switches. So yes, defense isn't just about protecting the rim (maybe that's way it was in the 90s).

No one is disputing Hakeem is a better rim defender...but Dray is probably better at everything else...and makes a defensive impact on more ways than Hakeem did if you're accounting offenses in this era.

You just repeated the things that you said previously. Color me convinced, can't argue with that.

I repeated what I said because you didn't address it. What makes Hakeem's rim protection more valuable than Draymond's ability to guard 1-5? Or to able to guard 3ft-30ft?

I didn't address it? Are you **** kidding me? Bother to read people's responses if you want to debate them. Jesus Christ.

I DISPUTED your statement regarding Draymond being able to guard 1-5. You're still regurgitating it like I didn't dispute it.

In regards to rim protection vs versatility, I said this

For someone who's very enamored with Steph's gravity on offense, you should know the value of the gravity elite rim protection brings to a defense.

But go on, keep repeating the same stuff again and again and keep ignoring the fact that people don't take your arguments at face value.