Defense only- How many Duncan/Russell seasons are better than 1990 Hakeem?

[1993Playoffs]

Yes i know Hakeem didn't Win dpoy Rodman did strangely....but imo this is peak Hakeem defense. Were Duncan/ Russell ever better?

[JordansBulls]

None of Duncan nor Russell

[70sFan]

For Russell, probably any of 1959-1966 versions, although it's hard to judge without much footage. All I know is that prime Russell was just as athletic as Hakeem and he possesed better defensive BBIQ. Hakeem relied on his athleticism mostly, Russell was like Duncan in Hakeem's body.

With Duncan, it's tougher. I believe that probably Hakeem peaked slightly higher due to his unreal man defense. Duncan was better on P&R though and he was more consistent overall (and less foul/mistake prone).

[euroleague]

For Russell, probably any of 1959-1966 versions, although it's hard to judge without much footage. All I know is that prime Russell was just as athletic as Hakeem and he possesed better defensive BBIQ. Hakeem relied on his athleticism mostly, Russell was like Duncan in Hakeem's body.

With Duncan, it's tougher. I believe that probably Hakeem peaked slightly higher due to his unreal man defense. Duncan was better on P&R though and he was more consistent overall (and less foul/mistake prone).

I'm not sure Russell was as quick as Hakeem. He had more speed and was stronger, but he looks like he had shorter arms and less quickness. I would take Hakeem's BBIQ in terms of blocking over Russell.

[70sFan]

For Russell, probably any of 1959-1966 versions, although it's hard to judge without much footage. All I know is that prime Russell was just as athletic as Hakeem and he possesed better defensive BBIQ. Hakeem relied on his athleticism mostly, Russell was like Duncan in Hakeem's body.

With Duncan, it's tougher. I believe that probably Hakeem peaked slightly higher due to his unreal man defense. Duncan was better on P&R though and he was more consistent overall (and less foul/mistake prone).

I'm not sure Russell was as quick as Hakeem. He had more speed and was stronger, but he looks like he had shorter arms and less quickness. I would take Hakeem's BBIQ in terms of blocking over Russell.

I disagree with everything, other than Russell being faster than Hakeem. Russell had 7'4 wingspan at similar height, I doubt Hakeem has huge difference here. Hakeem was stronger in my opinion, his strength is extremely underrated as he could hold his position against anybody. What do you mean by BBIQ in terms of shotblocking? Hakeem consistently was being caught with fakes and he fouled a lot. Russell had that Timmy-esque patience.

[euroleague]

For Russell, probably any of 1959-1966 versions, although it's hard to judge without much footage. All I know is that prime Russell was just as athletic as Hakeem and he possesed better defensive BBIQ. Hakeem relied on his athleticism mostly, Russell was like Duncan in Hakeem's body.

With Duncan, it's tougher. I believe that probably Hakeem peaked slightly higher due to his unreal man defense. Duncan was better on P&R though and he was more consistent overall (and less foul/mistake prone).

I'm not sure Russell was as quick as Hakeem. He had more speed and was stronger, but he looks like he had shorter arms and less quickness. I would take Hakeem's BBIQ in terms of blocking over Russell.

I disagree with everything, other than Russell being faster than Hakeem. Russell had 7'4 wingspan at similar height, I doubt Hakeem has huge difference here. Hakeem was stronger in my opinion, his strength is extremely underrated as he could hold his position against anybody. What do you mean by BBIQ in terms of shotblocking? Hakeem consistently was being caught with fakes and he fouled a lot. Russell had that Timmy-esque patience.

For the record, you didn't disagree with everything I said. I'm glad we agree Hakeem is quicker and Russell is faster - and quickness is certainly the more important attribute in getting blocks. In terms of strength, Hakeem was a pretty skinny guy who mostly was effective through his quickness - Russell was built heavily (very heavily for his era) and had a much stronger base than Hakeem. Russell at times was more built in his base than Wilt

Tim Duncan wasn't a great shot blocker - he just altered shots.
Hakeem would bite on the fakes, then block the shot anyways. Hakeem prevented shots from even being taken more than any other player recorded. Because Hakeem was so quick, he could challenge guards outside the key.

Hakeem has the most blocks in recorded NBA history, and it's not close. Nobody had his longevity and blocking skill (Wilt/Russell retired with much fewer years). That would hopefully say something about his blocking IQ.

[dhsilv2]

I'm not sure Russell was as quick as Hakeem. He had more speed and was stronger, but he looks like he had shorter arms and less quickness. I would take Hakeem's BBIQ in terms of blocking over Russell.

I disagree with everything, other than Russell being faster than Hakeem. Russell had 7'4 wingspan at similar height, I doubt Hakeem has huge difference here. Hakeem was stronger in my opinion, his strength is extremely underrated as he could hold his position against anybody. What do you mean by BBIQ in terms of shotblocking? Hakeem consistently was being caught with fakes and he fouled a lot. Russell had that Timmy-esque patience.

Tim Duncan wasn't a great shot blocker - he just altered shots.

The hell? An altered shot is generally better than a blocked shot, as you have a much better chance of getting the ball back, especially if you can do so without leaving your feet. Now without a doubt Hakeem blocked more shots than Duncan, so if you're just chasing the stat Hakeem was certainly better, but Duncan was a top 10 shot blocker in the league for 15 seasons. If that's not a great shot blocker, you've got some crazy high expectations for the word great.

[dhsilv2]

Hakeem here most likely was better than Duncan peak vs peak as a defender. It's hard to compare as Duncan's play style was smarter but resulted in lesser stats. Duncan was the better or at least as good a defensive rebounder, and amazingly Duncan got better at that as he aged as he learned how to position himself better and gambled for blocks less (and at the same time his block rate went up which is crazy to think). Also should be pointed out at Duncan's athletic peak he had Robinson getting a lot of the rebounds which makes it harder to compare their stats against each other.

Still hakeem was quicker and had better hands, for me that's where Hakeem has an edge, not really as a rim protector where I think they are very comparable.

I'll pass on the russell talk, the team stats would imply russell was better. It's just too hard to look at rebounds and the non existent block stats and make heads or tails out of an era where the wings and guards were so unathletic.

[LA Bird]

I would take Hakeem's BBIQ in terms of blocking over Russell.

...

Hakeem has the most blocks in recorded NBA history, and it's not close. Nobody had his longevity and blocking skill (Wilt/Russell retired with much fewer years). That would hopefully say something about his blocking IQ.

Keyword: recorded NBA history.

Considering Wilt in his last season was averaging an unofficial 5+ blocks a game, there should be no question that both him and Russell would be clearly #1 and #2 all time if blocks were recorded given the pace they were playing at in the 60s. Kareem would be ahead of Hakeem too if a quarter of his career blocks weren't missing. Hakeem is an all time great defender but talking about his "shotblocking IQ" in a comparison against Russell doesn't really make much sense when the latter was anchoring GOAT defenses throughout his career.

[Cavsfansince84]

Tim Duncan wasn't a great shot blocker - he just altered shots.
Hakeem would bite on the fakes, then block the shot anyways. Hakeem prevented shots from even being taken more than any other player recorded. Because Hakeem was so quick, he could challenge guards outside the key.

Hakeem has the most blocks in recorded NBA history, and it's not close. Nobody had his longevity and blocking skill (Wilt/Russell retired with much fewer years). That would hopefully say something about his blocking IQ.

Russell is generally thought of as being skinnier than Hakeem who was listed at 250lb throughout most of his career and started getting into weight lifting in the early 90's. Hakeem was a beast. Russell was always listed at 215 or 220 though his weight may have gone up later on.

[Cavsfansince84]

Tim Duncan wasn't a great shot blocker - he just altered shots.
Hakeem would bite on the fakes, then block the shot anyways. Hakeem prevented shots from even being taken more than any other player recorded. Because Hakeem was so quick, he could challenge guards outside the key.

Hakeem has the most blocks in recorded NBA history, and it's not close. Nobody had his longevity and blocking skill (Wilt/Russell retired with much fewer years). That would hopefully say something about his blocking IQ.

Russell is generally thought of as being skinnier than Hakeem who was listed at 250lb throughout most of his career and started getting into weight lifting in the early 90's. Hakeem was a beast. Russell was always listed at 215 or 220 though his weight may have gone up later on.

[Soulcatcher33]

Hakeem's 90 is clearly better than any of Duncan's just the way Robinson's 92 season is clearly better than any of Duncan's. Those two DPOY awards Rodman got in 90 and 91 are a complete joke. Hakeem was the best defensive player in the world and Rodman didn't come close to having his impact. After Hakeem, Robinson was clearly the 2nd best defensive player in the league too in 90 and 91.

[JordansBulls]

I am just not sure Hakeem or Duncan would allow someone at there position to average 28 ppg and 28 rpg on them for a career.

[ThaRegul8r]

Wilt in his last season was averaging an unofficial 5+ blocks a game

5.44, to be exact.

And note that since blocks were officially recorded, Mark Eaton averaged 5.56 in '84-85 and that's it.

Since the league started recording blocks the year after he retired, we know that in the 44 years after Wilt retired, only once in that time did anyone block more shots per game in a season than Wilt did his last year in the league.

[dhsilv2]

I am just not sure Hakeem or Duncan would allow someone at there position to average 28 ppg and 28 rpg on them for a career.

lol

because teams don't miss that many shots?

[dhsilv2]

Wilt in his last season was averaging an unofficial 5+ blocks a game

5.44, to be exact.

And note that since blocks were officially recorded, Mark Eaton averaged 5.56 in '84-85 and that's it.

Since the league started recording blocks the year after he retired, we know that in the 44 years after Wilt retired, only once in that time did anyone block more shots per game in a season than Wilt did his last year in the league.

So if we scale it for the league, that's like 3 blocks a game? Not bad.

[GSP]

I would take 89-93 Hakeem over any version of Timmy defensively

Russell is tougher to compare. Relative to league he played in he was on a higher level but from a skillset and capability i dont see how he was clearly above Hakeem based on footage tho i dont think he was clearly below Hakeem either